Unbalanced stuff that would be good to change.

[Deathseeker]

Monk bonus to AC From Wisdom is Per PnP.... I really dont have an issue with the WIsdom Bonus at all. there one thing a TWF AC Build will never have over a S&B.. Blocking DR..... THey also rarely have the Hit Point totals of the true Tanks either...

ANyone who splashes monk for the AC may end up regretting it due to not being able to take their Capstone as well....

The SImple "Balance" for this is for Turbine to Adjust the other Sources of AC inthe game a bit.. Drop the Action Point cost down on the Armor mastery Enhancments... Add In the TUmble Boost to AC in Defensive Modes, Add a Couple better Rituals to Sheilds and Armor... I think theres an optional in PnP to have Tumble even add passive Dodge bonus to AC somewhere.....

Make it easier for everyone to get to a reasonable AC fo rthe Preogression of the game.. Most people Max out their AC around L11 as it sits right now... but obs keep gettin better To hit bonus..... Thats where the Imbalance comes into play.

Why not go the other way...allow the monk Wis AC to apply even if holding a shield. Then everyone is in the same boat. Monks still wont hold the shield as they lose too many benefits from being uncentered. But at least then S&B and TWF get the same benefit from monk splashes and it isnt just the domain of the TWF.

The other route I like is to cap the AC bonus to the lesser of monk level or wis bonus. The only issue there is that it will nuke a lot of people's builds as they will have overinvested in Wis for their monk splash.

In any event, nerfing the Icey raiments to be a natural armor bonus or some other bonus would be good also...

I also like adding more shield ac bonus crafting rituals. Up to +4 would look good to me.

There are lots of options...

[Naso24]

Monk bonus to AC From Wisdom is Per PnP.... I really dont have an issue with the WIsdom Bonus at all. there one thing a TWF AC Build will never have over a S&B.. Blocking DR..... THey also rarely have the Hit Point totals of the true Tanks either...

ANyone who splashes monk for the AC may end up regretting it due to not being able to take their Capstone as well....

The SImple "Balance" for this is for Turbine to Adjust the other Sources of AC inthe game a bit.. Drop the Action Point cost down on the Armor mastery Enhancments... Add In the TUmble Boost to AC in Defensive Modes, Add a Couple better Rituals to Sheilds and Armor... I think theres an optional in PnP to have Tumble even add passive Dodge bonus to AC somewhere.....

Make it easier for everyone to get to a reasonable AC fo rthe Preogression of the game.. Most people Max out their AC around L11 as it sits right now... but obs keep gettin better To hit bonus..... Thats where the Imbalance comes into play.

Another part of the balance is investing stat points into wisdom (typically 14 or 15 to start) versus more DEX, STR, or CON. Taking away the AC benefit would waste several stat points people invested. That's not the same as changing enhancements and offering something else that provides similar usefulness. Changing WIS AC bonus will **** a lot of people off.

[Naso24]

Yup I agree that 'splash of monk' ac bonuses should be scaled back. I suggest removing access to the centered bonus when not actually centered (although a monk/2 is only getting +1 for that anyway, so I don't mind too much) - ...

Totally agree - I thought this was a bug, since even the game tells you that you aren't centered.

[Borror0]

Why not go the other way...allow the monk Wis AC to apply even if holding a shield.

First of all, that would be a "Welcome to Crazyland" kind of change. Huge inflation of all stats.

Secondly, making MCing required for AC spec'd characters is simply silly. Just remove it if you ever reach that point.

[Deathseeker]

First of all, that would be a "Welcome to Crazyland" kind of change. Huge inflation of all stats.

Secondly, making MCing required for AC spec'd characters is simply silly. Just remove it if you ever reach that point.

I'd much rather see other fixes, but this to me is better than status quo, which has shield users hosed in both AC and DPS. DPS is ok if there's an offset.

Im not suggesting this is the best fix, but how is this worse than status quo?

[Angelus_dead]

Im not suggesting this is the best fix, but how is this worse than status quo?

Because it's silly. Encouraging shield-wearers to splash a monk level, change to robes, and pump wisdom is just a goofy concept to picture, without even getting into what it does to the AC numbers (or how it's unfair to non-lawful alignments)

If you wanted to help their AC by letting them add another stat, then a better way would be something like
Brilliant Shield Defense: requires Combat Expertise, Heavy Shield Proficiency. When wielding a shield in CE mode you may add your intelligence modifier to your AC.

That would be fairly crazy too, but it's not quite as bad as telling them to train monk.

[DaveyCrockett]

All they have to do is add a Dodge +4 ritual that can be put on any shield. Balance is back

Make it require an ingredient that is a quest reward from a Level 16 'gather' or 'trivia' quest to keep lowbies from exploiting it.

[Nyvn]

Hm,mmm.. Guess I dont understand the connection between a Rogue that Can get to a 85+ AC and the Flavor of the month... Do all rogues have a Splash of Monk now? I missed that...

I think the fotm is tempest 15 ranger 1 monk. Favored enemy tempest and crazy ac?

[PurdueDave]

I think what you mean is "USED" to not get hit by Sulu.

If you haven't been in there on elite lately, he cuts through 85+ AC like buttah (change appears to have come with mod 8).

That would be one "solution" to big AC discrepancies.

[Roman]

All they have to do is add a Dodge +4 ritual that can be put on any shield. Balance is back

Make it require an ingredient that is a quest reward from a Level 16 'gather' or 'trivia' quest to keep lowbies from exploiting it.

Good idea.

It wasnt too long ago when the general opinion was that meaningful AC could not be achieved at end game. And now that there is a way to achieve meaningful AC we are crying that we want it taken away so that we can go back to crying that a meaningful AC can't be achieved again. Very silly.

Instead of breaking something that works, why not fix the other builds so that they can achieve a meaningful AC too?

[Amabel]

Get rid of paladin CHA bonus to saves and AC aura for a 2 level splash too.

AD&D 3.5 is all about cross-classing. Get over it.

[QuantumFX]

I have never played a monk, other then old school AD&D, and do not know the mechanics for them in DDO. Other then that, it seems that being Centered should be a requirement to gain the core functional benefits from being a monk. Would this mean that some feats need to be rewritten?

Right now, playing a pure monk is fun, until you have to use a weapon.

Right now the Monk WIS bonus to AC is working like the P&P rules state. Beyond the WIS bonus pure monks also get access to a source of AC that no other class has: Centered bonus. This bonus will go to either +5 or +6 at 20th level without enhancements. Making a Tempest monk (6 ranger/1x monk) could potentially get a player to the same AC bonus but the tempest will not be able to enter tier 4 stances until epic levels.

What's screwing up the balance is that the player/mob bonuses to hit are way out of whack.

D&D was designed around level 20, DDO was designed around level 10. In D&D AC ramps up quickly and then slows while attack bonus keeps steadily scaling up.

In DDO, AC ramps up quickly, slows and becomes biased against those that don't grind (+dodge items/+insight items), don't have a “perfect party mix” (Barkskin/Paladin Aura), don't have access armor/tower shield mastery (Dwarves/Fighters), or don't pay a substantial penalty for AC boosts (Action Boosts, Monk WIS, Combat Expertise, +dodge feats being better than +to hit feats.) And an attack bonus that scales 2-3 times as fast as it does in D&D.

DDO only reached the half way mark (level 10) and based all their design decisions off of it. In P&P a 50+ AC is no joke. Even if you aren't protected from the first attack in a chain you can expect some passive protection in the remaining attacks. Without this passive defense we get stuck with 500,000 HP mobs because the mob has no defense and has to survive long enough to present the players with a challenge.

[Angelus_dead]

Right now the Monk WIS bonus to AC is working like the P&P rules state.

Just a minor dispute to that, but in PnP rules any wizard13 can spend 13,000 to buff your clothing with Wisdom AC and centered+1.

D&D was designed around level 20, DDO was designed around level 10. In D&D AC ramps up quickly and then slows while attack bonus keeps steadily scaling up.

D&D was not designed for level 20, and doesn't function as a moderately balanced game at that level. As it happens, the way that D&D's AC fails to keep pace with high-level attack bonus is one of the consequences of the fact that they tested the game knowing that few campaigns make it past 10 levels.

[Borror0]

All they have to do is add a Dodge +4 ritual that can be put on any shield. Balance is back

Make it require an ingredient that is a quest reward from a Level 16 'gather' or 'trivia' quest to keep lowbies from exploiting it.

Why not just remove the IR and reduce mobs' to-hit?

[Borror0]

D&D was not designed for level 20, and doesn't function as a moderately balanced game at that level. As it happens, the way that D&D's AC fails to keep pace with high-level attack bonus is one of the consequences of the fact that they tested the game knowing that few campaigns make it past 10 levels.

Pretending that D&D was even intended to be balance at any level is riddiculous. Druids are insanely powerful. I wouldn't say the same about fighters. Truenamers are unplayable at higher levels. The list goes on... the lot of loopholes, unbalanced classes, feats and spells..

But yes, AC wasn't intended to work well at higher levels.

[Strykersz]

Why not just remove the IR and reduce mobs' to-hit?

The same reason they don't just eliminate all weapons but masterwork and reduce mobs hp/ac. Some degree of gear inflation is a good thing.

[Borror0]

The same reason they don't just eliminate all weapons but masterwork and reduce mobs hp/ac. Some degree of gear inflation is a good thing.

IR is not some degree of inflation. It is too much inflation.

This game would have been much better without it. Actually, most of DDO problems are due to inflation.

[Angelus_dead]

Pretending that D&D was even intended to be balance at any level is riddiculous.

That the attempt was made is undeniable.

You can claim that they failed, and that the magnitude of the failure was such that they couldn't have been "really trying"... but since they explicitly say it's supposed to be balanced, I'll take them at their word regarding intent.

As to why their balance failed so heavily, the most generous way to interpret it is that they were assuming a high-level of DM competence that goes above and beyond their written rules- and also players who implicitly work to uphold balance and roleplaying, instead of maximizing the abilities of their own characters.

[Strykersz]

IR is not some degree of inflation. It is too much inflation.

This game would have been much better without it. Actually, most of DDO problems are due to inflation.

It's a 20% increase in effectiveness and it represents pretty much the entirety of the desirable upgrades for a dex based ac character in its mod(there were some non-ac improvements to be had). I don't personally find that level to be 'too much', although I would have probably preferred it to have been of a similar magnitude but spread around on a few items.

[Borror0]

It's a 20% increase in effectiveness and it represents pretty much the entirety of the desirable upgrades for a dex based ac character in its mod

Elaborate as I don't see that.

Dex-based characters deal more DPS and have more AC than S&B characters, on top of having better reflex saves and most likely Evasion. What in hell would they desire more? They didn't need more AC, that's for sure. They were already ahead or on par. They weren't behind. Especially since stat-damage owns trash mobs. (Even if DPS owned trash mobs, they would still be better than S&B.)

It doesn't only help Dex-based characters. Str-based with monk splash love it too.