Priority: Greensteel Deconstruction

[bobbryan2]

i can tell you the greensteel decon is going to help the casual player more than the powergamer.

See... but that doesn't ultimately matter.

What matters is sticking it to the power gamer at all costs... even if it hurts all your peers more.

[Kistilan]

See... but that doesn't ultimately matter.

What matters is sticking it to the power gamer at all costs... even if it hurts all your peers more.

That's right, because that's who I was gunning for.

Aranticus, I wasn't trying to hurt either side. The whole messiah issue was brought up on a character criticism by someone whom I thought was trying to be nice once, but that's another story.

I am actually looking at the game's overall longevity and that's what fuels my fire concerning respec and deconstruct issues. I also believe personal decisions and risks are to be accountable at all levels, casual and power gamer. I am not gunning for one person or the other.

[bobbryan2]

I am actually looking at the game's overall longevity and that's what fuels my fire concerning respec and deconstruct issues. I also believe personal decisions and risks are to be accountable at all levels, casual and power gamer. I am not gunning for one person or the other.

Oh yeah... accountability... that's a great basis for game development. How did the 'accountability' angle work out when the death penalty was -5000 per death at lvl 12, and people were gaining 4000 per quest.

That made the game more fun, right? Making people more accountable for deaths.

Here's a little tidbit for you. Games should be based around fun... not responsibility and accountability. This isn't supposed to be some sort of extension of real life.. it's an escape from it.

And the irony is.... Players aren't just being held accountable for their own actions... we're being held accountable for all the devs actions too.

[gfunk]

edit* comments based on mistaken calculations assuming crit multiplier would be applied to full crit range... oops

[bobbryan2]

The use of adjectives like BIG, in this context when the numbers indicate a 10% change can serve to hurt the cause you are stating. In absolute terms that change is not BIG. BIG would be something closer to 33% or more difference. Is it a change, yah, no disputing that.

10% isn't very big. Right. And Tempest speed boost is basically worthless... most Rangers don't even consider it worth 3 feats or the 4 AP.

[Kistilan]

Oh yeah... accountability... that's a great basis for game development. How did the 'accountability' angle work out when the death penalty was -5000 per death at lvl 12, and people were gaining 4000 per quest.

That made the game more fun, right? Making people more accountable for deaths.

Here's a little tidbit for you. Games should be based around fun... not responsibility and accountability. This isn't supposed to be some sort of extension of real life.. it's an escape from it.

And the irony is.... Players aren't just being held accountable for their own actions... we're being held accountable for all the devs actions too.

I do have to say the experience death penalty was a good thing, but it was too high at the higher levels. It needed to be scaled down, not removed. Removing it allowed dying to be a much better tactic than was intended. Dying should not be a tactic. It should be the end.

Anyway, this is not as serious as eggregious experience removal. Think on that -- it's not nearly as bad. You can still level and play.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Kist, I find it patently obnoxious that you feel that it SHOULD be considered a "risk" to craft an item.

How is that in the "spirit of DnD," pray tell?

Actually the D&D rules for crafting allow for critical failures (skill check failed by 5 or more) which result in half of your raw materials being spoiled so some loss in crafting is in keeping with the spirit of D&D.

according to the DMG you should never, EVER go back and change things like this mid-stream unless you want to be deposed as DM.

Agreed.

Plus let's not forget the rule that the game must be fun or people won't play

[Jeffywan]

Actually the D&D rules for crafting allow for critical failures (skill check failed by 5 or more) which result in half of your raw materials being spoiled so some loss in crafting is in keeping with the spirit of D&D.

I provided a suggestion for the deconstruction that I think is in the spirit of the rules and makes sense. I haven't heard anyone comment on only allowing the deconstruction to manufactured ingredents. To me this makes sense because once you make something from raw ingredients you can't simply take it apart, I would think you would be left with broken down scales or something at that point. However when you are looking at essences and focuses and such it seems that those items might be able to be trasfered to something else.

I had read the thred and tried to provide a suggestion that meet the expressed need while not providing something that seemed unrealistic or unbalanced. I was rather suprised no one even commented on the suggestion.

[Zenako]

I provided a suggestion for the deconstruction that I think is in the spirit of the rules and makes sense. I haven't heard anyone comment on only allowing the deconstruction to manufactured ingredents. To me this makes sense because once you make something from raw ingredients you can't simply take it apart, I would think you would be left with broken down scales or something at that point. However when you are looking at essences and focuses and such it seems that those items might be able to be trasfered to something else.

I had read the thred and tried to provide a suggestion that meet the expressed need while not providing something that seemed unrealistic or unbalanced. I was rather suprised no one even commented on the suggestion.

Partly I suspect that the actual implementation is secondary to the primary arguement/discussion of if such a thing should even be instituted in the game. Once past that, discussing the hows become more relevant. I think unlimited deconstruction would be an issue, but what controls would make sense? What would work in the game as it stands. What would work with the interface we currently have (ie the alters) as it currently stands. (Obviously a complete decontruction would overflow the current UI for the alters (only 5 slots available) so something staged would have to happen unless things were changed. Whatever...discussing the mechanics of how to do it, are very different than discussing if it should be done.

[bandyman1]

I didn't need your help. I don't know how requesting to jump in a Titan looked like I "needed" help. You're taking this to a solitary incident because you could call me out and make me look like a "noob," when I made a mistake. No, what I pointed out was that I offered the benefit of my experience, when you could obviously use it...something I do for less experienced players whenever I run with them. As soon as I cast the spell I realized that me pulling the agro off your power runner was not so hot (which was the intent as it worked in the 10 quests I'd run prior that day). Anyway, this is a single incident that you called me out in public in a rude way when you could have said, "Well we took you on a Titan, didn't we?" And I'd say, "Yeah, and XXXXX lets me come along on his runs too." You wanna make this out to be me calling you out as a noob? We can do that then. How about we forget about the charming incident, and just ask weather or not you realized that burning 50% of your mana throwing Firewall at the Titan when his shields were up, on that run, " was not so hot "??? Didn't remember that part? Because I'm pretty sure Tot, Alexz, and Erekose will.Your pointing out one single incident versus what I mentioned as my desire to help large amounts of players all at once (the entire community). Someone attacked my character as self-serving and I didn't quite agree with that, so that's why those issues were brought up. It has no relative bearing on whether you deserve a green steel deconstruct. THAT was the issue of this thread. I know very **** well that it was the issue of the thread. Which is why my original reply to you stayed completely on topic. Maybe you should reread the thread. You're reply to my first post is what threw this entire mess into the discussion about the great sacrifices you make for the betterment of the community Kist, vs. the powergamers, who only help others as some " secondary " consideration whilst benefiting only themselves, lmfao. Now you want to stay on topic?

Suck it up man. I am not arguing for or against the power gamer and I haven't released my final reasons on the Character Respec matter, which is what I'm more against than for at this time. Greensteel deconstruct issues are collatoral damage that I've taken a keen interest in as well. I've never seen Turbine in their 9+ years allow a 1 for 1 swop in crafted items. Expect to lose.

As for your greensteel deconstruction, you took a risk by forging ahead to find the recipes. Good on ya. You took a risk with a build and built greensteel items for those builds. Good on ya.

You can't take back everything. Life and games are not so dissimilar. If they offer a deconstruct, don't expect to get exactly what you wanted. There will likely be a cost. And if you get a deconstruct, good on ya.

And if they do or don't; Not much I can do about it.

What I took umbrage to; Was you telling peeps to " quit asking for a free ride ".

There wasn't a **** thing free about it. The labor and time were put in.

And holding hands on Korthos is not where every 3 year player wants, OR NEEDS to spend their time.

[Osharan_Tregarth]

Are you serious here?

Do you honestly believe that a player who has just deleted and re-created a capped character at level 15 to 20 is going to take his time to help newbies learn the game and slowly lead them around a variety of quests?

In real life, he's going to mail a set of high-powered equipment and potions to his new alt, and speed-level at least up to level 5 with hardly even a pause to look around, because he's got those lowbie places memorized and hardly wants to see them again. His objective, after all, is to start re-acquiring all the high-level stuff he just deleted.

In fact, the presence of rerolls at low level just makes the game less welcoming to new players, because the abilities and knowledge used by the alts are so far beyond what they can have earned themselves at that level that they may just give up.

Sigh... I'm not gonna be able to respect myself in the morning for this...



I wholeheatedly agree with Angelus's entire post here. Dammit.

[Aspenor]

Sigh... I'm not gonna be able to respect myself in the morning for this...



I wholeheatedly agree with Angelus's entire post here. Dammit.

lol my ears were burning when i read it....

ahhh the wonders of a monk ranger lowbie with a keen puncturing rapier and a wounding offhand....

lol

[bandyman1]

lol my ears were burning when i read it....

ahhh the wonders of a monk ranger lowbie with a keen puncturing rapier and a wounding offhand....

lol

Of course you'd do that Asp. I mean hell; You're a powergamer. You wouldn't dare help any newbies.

The multiple character guides you've written were only so that your melees would have well-built arcanes to run with, right? Because you certainly couldn't have offered anything to the community unless you saw some self-serving gain primarily .

[Osharan_Tregarth]

lol my ears were burning when i read it....

ahhh the wonders of a monk ranger lowbie with a keen puncturing rapier and a wounding offhand....

lol

heh.. Mine had the acid rapier of puncturing in one hand, and the cursespewing of puncturing in the other hand.

[Aspenor]

Of course you'd do that Asp. I mean hell; You're a powergamer. You wouldn't dare help any newbies.

The multiple character guides you've written were only so that your melees would have well-built arcanes to run with, right? Because you certainly couldn't have offered anything to the community unless you saw some self-serving gain primarily .

Considering "powergamers" created the /help channel on Argo, I'd argue that our PG population is fairly accomodating of new players, don't you think?

heh.. Mine had the acid rapier of puncturing in one hand, and the cursespewing of puncturing in the other hand.

heh, i only kept the keen/punc and wounder till level 10, then it was w/p all the way.

i solod HiPs, Ghola Fan, and Shrieking Mines at an appropriate level for 6 players. weeeee

[bandyman1]

Considering "powergamers" created the /help channel on Argo, I'd argue that our PG population is fairly accomodating of new players, don't you think?

Now Asp; You know very well that was only done so we could make fun of the noobs whenever they asked questions or asked for help. No way in hell would we ever help anyone.

And even it we did take the time to offer advice and help to others; No way could it ever approach the level of selflessness and sacrifice certain members of the more casual community have endured .

[Osharan_Tregarth]

heh, i only kept the keen/punc and wounder till level 10, then it was w/p all the way.

Yes.. Due to an unfortunate accident with the "sell all button" a week or two ago, all of my level 10 gear for that character went away... About an hour after I'd mailed it to him.

I had to walk around the house ranting and raving for a bit before I could get back to my keyboard... I think I threw a couple of things as well.


But hey! Good news.. The 24 hour limitation on the new buyback windows work just fine, because that character didn't have anything listed there when I checked yesterday... Bleah.

[DaveyCrockett]

heh, i only kept the keen/punc and wounder till level 10, then it was w/p all the way.

level 10?!?!

**** you need better twink gear! You should be at w/p by level 8!

[Aspenor]

level 10?!?!

**** you need better twink gear! You should be at w/p by level 8!

hook me up Davey. I have fresh baked christmas cookies made by my girlfriend

[bandyman1]

hook me up Davey. I have fresh baked christmas cookies made by my girlfriend

Don't do it Davey. I hear Niras is only a passable cook.