Priority: Greensteel Deconstruction

[SableShadow]

It's not what I said persay. You're read'n into it too much.

PM sent.

[Borror0]

Honestly, don't argue respec with Kistilan. You will never win.

You can tell him whatever reason you want, his argument is "This is not what D&D is about" You can tell him about how a MMO environment is better, he doesn't care. You can explain to him that if a DM plays with the rules, it is only fair that he lets players adjust to the new rules. He doesn't care. You can show him that D&D allows it, he doesn't care. You can explain how changes made to the game negatively affect the enjoyment from the game, and how respecs prevents a lot of that frustration. He doesn't care.

Because, in his mind, this is not D&D.

His position isn't rational, it's based on emotions. It's not based on facts, it's based on a biased perception of reality.

While I have respec for the man, debating respec with him has only proved to be a waste of time. He has no valid argument, but still keeps arguing.

[Angelus_dead]

I just want to point out that reconstruction for a magic item is the same as respec for a character, just on a smaller scale. Both of those topics had threads created today because Barb Critical Rage was nerfed, which reduces the value of both axes and barb levels.

In both cases you are altering a choice applied to an in-game element that would otherwise be permanent. And in both cases, the strongest justification for allowing the alteration to be made is if the underlying game-rules have been changed so that the reasons for making the original choice no longer exist.

Of course, there are other reasons as well:
* To correct for user-interface errors (which might have been the fault of the player, or the programmer)
* To be forgiving to users who have increased their knowledge of game rules after starting playing
* To compensate for the fact that the developers have occasionally published incomplete or incorrect game rules
* To make the game more fun for people who are unsatisfied with their current choice for whatever reason

[Angelus_dead]

Honestly, don't argue respec with Kistilan. You will never win.

Incorrect.

You will always win. In fact, even if you don't argue it you'll still win.

It even seems possible that Kistilian is in favor of respecs, and is intentionally posting weak objections just to give people the chance to refute them and make the changes seem like an even better idea.

[Borror0]

You will always win. In fact, even if you don't argue it you'll still win.

It even seems possible that Kistilian is in favor of respecs, and is intentionally posting weak objections just to give people the chance to refute them and make the changes seem like an even better idea

Oh, like Shade did? Good to know.

[Angelus_dead]

Oh, like Shade did? Good to know.

Wow, you knew about that? I thought he tried to keep it secret.

[Borror0]

Wow, you knew about that? I thought he tried to keep it secret.

I kinda figured out myself when he told me rogues deal, in average, about 10% of his barbarian's DPS.

[Mhykke]

I kinda figured out myself when he told me rogues deal, in average, about 10% of his barbarian's DPS.

Did shade reroll or something?

[Aspenor]

It's absolutely imperative that deconstruction be put in the game, now.

[Angelus_dead]

Did shade reroll or something?

Conan and Warhammer...

Then again, back when Module 7 added Green Steel Axes (in a brilliant move to make the mod6 raid overshadow the newer content), he'd already made at least 4 tier-3 greensteel hammers for his dwarf characters. It's plausible that having the effort invested in those items negated was part of the reason he quit this game.

[Xorm]

*cries*

I have a greensteel Great Crossbow


For the love of god Turbine!

Please!

[Mhykke]

Conan and Warhammer...

Then again, back when Module 7 added Green Steel Axes (in a brilliant move to make the mod6 raid overshadow the newer content), he'd already made at least 4 tier-3 greensteel hammers for his dwarf characters. It's plausible that having the effort invested in those items negated was part of the reason he quit this game.

Ahh, yes, makes sense.

[Kistilan]

Incorrect.

You will always win. In fact, even if you don't argue it you'll still win.

It even seems possible that Kistilian is in favor of respecs, and is intentionally posting weak objections just to give people the chance to refute them and make the changes seem like an even better idea.

It's very possible you'll wake up too, but I gotta go to work. Let me know how that dream works out for ya!

[Aeneas]

omg yes please

/signed

/seconded

/agreed

[Thrudh]

Wow, you knew about that? I thought he tried to keep it secret.

Interesting... I always just thought he was an idiot...

[Tin_Dragon]

/signed

yeah, loss of Power shards, and energy cells, NOT larges!

Do It!

Heck, just put Fred's Cousin in Meridia, and do a 10K plat, and 3 day timer, why not? Acceptable?

[Kistilan]

Thirdly, you probably didn't even start crafting (ie, have enough ingredients) until the full list of weapons was out, for the people that did, they probably had a khopesh on their dwarven s&b, or a greatsword on their barbarian. Then came Dwarven Axes and Greataxes.

Fourth, noone here is asking for yours, or anyone else's pity. Deconstruction would go along way in helping many players, for many reasons. If people would stop thinking that things that hurt the 'uber' help them, we wouldn't have this negativity pop up in every 'idea' thread. This particular idea has the potential to help everyone.

Lastly, do you really think I don't have the ingredients to build more Greensteel, or that the amount of ingredients lost would even be felt? That's not the point in this discussion.

In closing, I'm asking for a feature to be added that many people could benefit from, not an 'oh ****" button for min/maxers.

Well, I don't disagree with your points Davey. I honestly don't disagree with what you're saying at all. 'cept I don't have any items crafted yet because I saw where this was going (and why I halted level progression prior to 15 on my characters).

Now, I don't expect everyone to have seen all of this coming their way. However, I don't think respec is the answer and deconstruction in a pure format either.

I think there should be a risk. A 1 for 1 tradeoff to say "I take it back!" is a little eggregious. It's a tad unfair to anyone. I don't care if you wasted a ton of ingredients on mistakes. I'm glad people did that, thanks for the recipes, thanks for the research.

I just want to throw out a different answer to this idea of "greensteel deconstruction." There should be a risk in the refinement process of tearing a melded item apart. I would say if deconstruction was free it be up to 100% chance of loss of all ingredients, whereas if it requires a payment or special (not too) rare item that it generate a 50, 25 or 0 percent chance of loss of items. IE, you could lose randomly 25% 50% or 0% of the items required in making said greensteel when it is deconstructed into raw components.

This is a based on reality and also life for the game. Again, I'll post my arguement later concerning this. I am still against a 100% free 100% risk-free respec. Turbine obviously intended people to have to "trial and error" the greensteel crafting from the beginning. Their sacrifices were expected to uncover recipes. You cannot deny that. I cannot bleed a heart or shed a tear for them, but I do thank them for their work.

[Mindspat]

It is imperative that we are offered Greensteel deconstruction before Mod 9 arrives.
-DfC

I completely dissagree. Greensteel items should remain permanent creations.

[moorewr]

Seems like it would be in keeping with the spirit of PnP crafting.. with some random losses from the contents, perhaps..

I'd dearly like the ingredients back out of my lightning II longsword.. I know that much...

[Arjen]

'cept I don't have any items crafted yet because I saw where this was going (and why I halted level progression prior to 15 on my characters).

I think that I might take your opinion more seriously if you actually participated in the endgame content. It's all well and good to have a passionate opinion on character/item respecs but I would suggest that you might be a bit more informed if you were involved in the process itself.