Atheism and Christmas

[Electric_Pulses]

I live in Washington state and next to a Nativity scene in the capital of Washington (Olympia) a sign was posted that said...

At theis season of
the winter solstice
may reason prevail
there are no gods,
no devils, no angels,
no heaven or hell.
There is only our natural world
religion is but
myth and superstition
that hardens hearts
and enslaves minds.

IMO this sign is 1. ridiculous 2. offensive and 3. should not be posted up during christmas next to a nativity scene in the capital building.

But I am Catholic and have a bias; so I am curious, my fellow DDO community what do you think of this sign? I know there is freedom of speech but is this offensive to the point where it should not be posted next to a nativity scene? Is that a bit harsh or ok? Some may argue that the nativity scene should not be set up cuz of seperation of church and state but the American gov. considers christmas both a religous and philisophical holdiay and thats why it is allowed to be displayed in Washingtons capitol building. But anyway what is your opinion on this? Am I thinking logical? Should it be allowed or not? Is it just me or is this rude to be posted next to a nativity scene as Christams approaches?

[Hobgoblin]

well ..... touchy subject here.
thats all im gonna say, cept that the coc prohibts discussions of religion

[Borror0]

I'm a weak atheist, around Christmas that kind of speech is simply poor taste and unacceptable. While I find it is useful to challenge theists on their beliefs for how it affects everyone's life, there is a time and place for that. IMO. However, such discussions aren't allowed on the forums, as hobgoblin said.

[Odium]

Its one of those things i guess. the sign ****'es off belivers; the scene ****'es off non-believers. what do you do? Government is best served to not get invloved in all that.

Let the churches have their baby jesus and others have their signs in their yard.

eitherway someone gets angry.

[Strakeln]

I am curious, my fellow DDO community what do you think of this sign?

I think that you should consider how you feel about the sign - "ridiculous", "offensive", and "should not be posted"...

...then recognize that the person who put the sign up very likely felt the exact same way regarding the nativity scene.

[kaidendager]

Long live freedom of speech...unless you disagree with me!

Can't have one without the other, though the sign is a bit forecful and in poor taste. It's a two way street though, if you represent one religion you have to represent any that cares to be represented as well. I think "ridiculous" may be a bit strong as some could equally and effectively say the same about the nativity scene.

Religion is a touchy subject, but one that can be discussed intelligently and unoffensively.

[Lithic]

At theis season of
the winter solstice
may reason prevail
there are no gods,
no devils, no angels,
no heaven or hell.
There is only our natural world
religion is but
myth and superstition
that hardens hearts
and enslaves minds.

QFT! Religion is a blight upon our world, and we would be better off without it.

Having said that, there is a time and place for discussing such things, and I doubt that next to an icon of any religion (or these forums for that matter) is the proper place.

Edit: I sure hope the typo was from the OP and not what the original poster said hehe.

[Borror0]

Religion is a touchy subject, but one that can be discussed intelligently and unoffensively.

I had a conversation with a Christian friend lately and it was really hard on him.

When a theist discusses with an atheist, it can be really hard on him. The atheist is basically saying that the one of the theist's most precious beliefs is just a bunch of children story, or worse. For example, my friend didn't liked it when I compared the gospels to Pokémon. While he got my point, he didn't really appreciate the comparison... and I understand the sentiment.

While it can be discussed intelligently and unoffensively, it is very hard to do so for how some are passionate about their faith.

[Quanefel]

Its funny how they are only targetting one religious group and not the others. If its directed towards this one group its considered free speech. If they direct it towards the others it would be cosidered hateful, bigotted and maybe even racist. Yet...against this one group its ok?

[kaidendager]

Its funny how they are only targetting one religious group and not the others. If its directed towards this one group its considered free speech. If they direct it towards the others it would be cosidered hateful, bigotted and maybe even racist. Yet...against this one group its ok?

Speaking out against christianity is free speech, speaking out against Islam is free speech, speaking out against Judaism is free speech. Speaking out against Christians tends to get a little more airtime as America is predominantly Christian, speaking out against the other groups is much more small group discussion. I believe giving examples of this would be in poor taste and considered tactless, you will have to fill in the blanks where and when you've heard the different rhetorics.

Christianity tends to fall into the category of the majority and in modern American politics the majority tends to go out of its way to avoid offending or touching on the minorities at the sake of their own offenses. I'm not saying that speaking out against Christianianity is correct or more acceptable than speaking out against Islam, I'm mrerely pointing out that attacks against Christianity tend to get more coverage than any other group. Atheist attacks on Christian symbols around this time tends to be more prevalent as public displays of any other religion are scarce and far between.

[thomprob]

This is about the worst and most improper thread that can crop up in the forums. Turbine please take it down

[Strakeln]

Its funny how they are only targetting one religious group and not the others. If its directed towards this one group its considered free speech. If they direct it towards the others it would be cosidered hateful, bigotted and maybe even racist. Yet...against this one group its ok?

Well, depending on the OP's transcription skills, maybe they did include all the others:

there are no gods,

...but I'm guessing not. And you bring up a good point, one that often bothers me. Either be offended by an attack on any group/religion/whatever or be offended by none.

[secondchance]

I had a conversation with a Christian friend lately and it was really hard on him.

When a theist discusses with an atheist, it can be really hard on him. The atheist is basically saying that the one of the theist's most precious beliefs is just a bunch of children story, or worse. For example, my friend didn't liked it when I compared the gospels to Pokémon. While he got my point, he didn't really appreciate the comparison... and I understand the sentiment.

While it can be discussed intelligently and unoffensively, it is very hard to do so for how some are passionate about their faith.

hey was that me bro??

I'm a christian, but that sign who-ever posted it I am not angered by it....nope I'm sad for that person.... there's a lot of emptyness there.... this isn't the place for this though I think it may be against the rules and some one always gets "bent out of shape" when this topic comes up..... but christan to christian I would say this to you (the op) don't judge and don't let the beliefs or non beliefs of anyone offend or anger you ... I hope that helps you

[Borror0]

hey was that me bro??

Nope. Another RL friend.

[DoctorWhofan]

Things that should not be discussed between friends:

Death

Religion


I was attending school for comparitve religions and I found that even whith my friends that those subjects are a bit prickly.

To answer the OP:

Why was there a Nativity scene in front of a government building? To ring in the holidays, there ware many more things they could have put up, say a tree, sliegh, Santa (which is vaguly relgious but more mainstream than a Nativity) anything except they chose that. Maybe it was a tradition, I dunno. To offset the religious undertones (and perhaps stop a lawsuit) the sign was created.

Regardless, does it really matter? Peace on Earth and Good Will Towards Man can be translated into any faith, or no faith at all.

Take it for what it is, a message of good will and enjoy your holidays.

[Mockduck]

A Dungeons and Dragons player who's a Christian? I thought we were all Satanists....

[stoc]

Long live freedom of speech...unless you disagree with me!

Can't have one without the other, though the sign is a bit forecful and in poor taste. It's a two way street though, if you represent one religion you have to represent any that cares to be represented as well. I think "ridiculous" may be a bit strong as some could equally and effectively say the same about the nativity scene.

Religion is a touchy subject, but one that can be discussed intelligently and unoffensively.

Amen Brother

[Altarboy]

I think that you should consider how you feel about the sign - "ridiculous", "offensive", and "should not be posted"...

...then recognize that the person who put the sign up very likely felt the exact same way regarding the nativity scene.

Being a strong Atheist I can tell you...it's how I feel

[Electric_Pulses]

hey was that me bro??

I'm a christian, but that sign who-ever posted it I am not angered by it....nope I'm sad for that person.... there's a lot of emptyness there.... this isn't the place for this though I think it may be against the rules and some one always gets "bent out of shape" when this topic comes up..... but christan to christian I would say this to you (the op) don't judge and don't let the beliefs or non beliefs of anyone offend or anger you ... I hope that helps you

tyvm this does help me, i am no longer angry

and sry i did not know discussing religion was against turbines rules

[Mithran]

It's tempting to lump Christians together with Christianity, but too many Christians regard their faith as a license to behave in a manner separate from what its objective, ideal teachings are. Unfortunately, that's fundamental human nature, and it's not restricted to religion.

My faith is probably as strong as anyone is likely to encounter in another person, but I do not attend any denomination's church and my faith is strong enough to allow other people to make their own decisions. Furthermore, anyone is free to disagree with me without fear of personal repercussions.