Capstone enhancement concerns

[Lifespawn]

monk capstone is nice but i for one won't regret taking 1 lvl of rogue on mine it opened up so much more than ki regen or more concentration that i don't need.


Is it a nice enhancment yes quite nice and specific to the class needs of a monk but my monk has ol maxed intimidate, umd and rogue haste boost so i'll take those over the capstone anyday.

[Dexxaan]

The fact is we are not talking about Bards, Wizards, Sorcerers or Clerics which have functions that are "almost" rigid and therefore by "splashing" you could seriously deteriorate their contributions to a group (be it 6 or 12 more).

We are talking about Paladins. The argument stops here if you play your Paladin as a "Support Healer" or "Cleric´s Squire", both forms are fine and you are more than free to do so, but don´t come treading on my path as uber because you are "rigid".

On the other hand if you play your Paladin as a Combatant of Evil via Melee, Self Buffs, DPS and Tactics.....then I stand by my post # 29 in which I question the Capstone´s ability to top not just 2 but 6 levels of Multi-Classing. (I tried pointing out the price paid as well as benefits for clarity, but some people just shoot the messenger )

Multi-Classing isn´t for everyone, THAT is hard to argue, and maybe it is best for you Mr Pu to stay pure.

[hu-flung-pu]

What is my point? That it was pure speculation.

That you had no basis to think so. However, you started debating that you used a very unusual definition of "gimped paladin" and that it was my fault for acting to hastily as I should have, according to you, asked for clarification when you simpyl used an expression in a way is not usually used on these forums.

I've listed, in many posts, why I believe what I do, you're arguing from the view point that multi-classing doesn't gimp his paladin, when I've pointed out explicitly that he did in fact gimp his paladin.

I've pointed out many, many times with facts that support my view point. But I'm still way off base in saying what I do....

[hu-flung-pu]

The fact is we are not talking about Bards, Wizards, Sorcerers or Clerics which have functions that are "almost" rigid and therefore by "splashing" you could seriously deteriorate their contributions to a group (be it 6 or 12 more).

Wow, you must really like talking out that thing you sit on.

We are talking about Paladins. The argument stops here if you play your Paladin as a "Support Healer" or "Cleric´s Squire", both forms are fine and you are more than free to do so, but don´t come treading on my path as uber because you are "rigid".

I do love the little backhanded titles you're throwing around, it's nice to know you're overcompensating for a gimped toon.

I'm treading on your path because you're an idiot who decided to throw a firebomb in to the conversation and proclaim that the only way to roll a paladin is to take no more then 14 or 15 levels of paladin for zeal.

And please get off the "rigid" tip. You're making yourself look stupid.

On the other hand if you play your Paladin as a Combatant of Evil via Melee, Self Buffs, DPS and Tactics.....then I stand by my post # 29 in which I question the Capstone´s ability to top not just 2 but 6 levels of Multi-Classing. (I tried pointing out the price paid as well as benefits for clarity, but some people just shoot the messenger )

Multi-Classing isn´t for everyone, THAT is hard to argue, and maybe it is best for you Mr Pu to stay pure.

It's not just the capstone, it's the final tiers of PrE's, it's the final levels of enhancements like Divine Might 4, Paladin Redemption 3, extra smites, extra LoH, extra spell slots. Explain to me how your 14 paladin, 4 fighter, 2 rogue turns a "Clerics Squire" in to so much more of a DPS machine then a 20 paladin.

Multi-classing is great, a 6 paladin, 14 fighter would be devestating, heck, even 18 paladin, 2 monk rocks my socks off. So don't pigeon hole me.

[TommyBoy]

And, while Paladins haven't come up in that argument yet, I'd say they present one of the strongest arguments for multiclassing. They are often seen as a "tank" class, yet have no native Intimidate. So unless you rely solely on Fighters for end-game tanking, you are essentially forced to take one Fighter level to get Intimidate.

Um... i have a barb that doesnt need intimidate in order to pull and hold agro. for that mattter neither does my monk, rouge, and wizard. intimidate is nice, but not needed. dmg out put ftw

[Borror0]

You're arguing from the view point that multi-classing doesn't gimp his paladin, when I've pointed out explicitly that he did in fact gimp his paladin.

Comparing paladins to sorcerers is not a proper analogy.

Is a fighter a worse fighter because he multiclassed paladin levels? Is a barbarian a worse barbarian because he multiclassed ranger levels? Of course not, he fills his party role which is: kill stuff. Don't go pretending that a paladin's job is to use Smite Evil and use Lay on Hands as that is simply not true.

I've pointed out many, many times with facts that support my view point...

Where?

[Borror0]

Um... i have a barb that doesnt need intimidate in order to pull and hold agro. for that mattter neither does my monk, rouge, and wizard. intimidate is nice, but not needed. dmg out put ftw

The problem with that argument is that it's pretty hard to pull aggro FROM your barbarian as a paladin.

What is the point of an AC character if he can't tank cause the barbarian has the aggro?

[Dexxaan]

Wow, you must really like talking out that thing you sit on.

Very mature comeback. (Suggest: Breath...think if possible.....exhale....reply.)

I do love the little backhanded titles you're throwing around, it's nice to know you're overcompensating for a gimped toon.

You´ve been given the right to the Pepsi Challenge:
Your Paladin of Purity, mine (Bruttus da Gimp) some ghost witnesses:
Ritual Sacrifice Elite (I can open it for you on Elite) - Kill as you go (no running past mobs) 20 CSPots, no CSWands, Nor Heal Scrolls. Self Buffs only. (prohibition of healing implements is to avoid overextending the Healing.)

I'm treading on your path because you're an idiot who decided to throw a firebomb in to the conversation and proclaim that the only way to roll a paladin is to take no more then 14 or 15 levels of paladin for zeal. As it stands....I may be an Idiot for responding to you, but hey I´m bored. Firebombed? Of course I did or will, some things need fire as a cleansing agent....ever light up a Fart?

And please get off the "rigid" tip. You're making yourself look stupid. That comment must have hit a nerve.....won´t dig any deeper or you may get ugly and the Cube Cometh.



It's not just the capstone, it's the final tiers of PrE's, it's the final levels of enhancements like Divine Might 4, Paladin Redemption 3, extra smites, extra LoH, extra spell slots. Explain to me how your 14 paladin, 4 fighter, 2 rogue turns a "Clerics Squire" in to so much more of a DPS machine then a 20 paladin.

ROFL - Show me how you will use your 80 AP´s to achieve all those wonderful "MAXXED" Pre´s, DM, ES, DS, etc,..
Also show me your build Stats, Gear (you can count raid gear since everything is farmable nowadays) and Race..... then you get your explanation....undeserving as you have become since I dislike your insults, but worth enlightening still.

Multi-classing is great, a 6 paladin, 14 fighter would be devestating, heck, even 18 paladin, 2 monk rocks my socks off. So don't pigeon hole me. Now Multi-Classing is great? What happened to straying from righteousness?

Again I suggest.....Breathe...Think if possible...exhale....reply.


And please hurry because you just called the Cube Snack Anchoring Hotline.

[hu-flung-pu]

The problem with that argument is that it's pretty hard to pull aggro FROM your barbarian as a paladin.

What is the point of an AC character if he can't tank cause the barbarian has the aggro?

Divine righteousness is there for a reason.

[Borror0]

Divine righteousness is there for a reason.

Intimidate > Divine Righteousness

[hu-flung-pu]

Again I suggest.....Breathe...Think if possible...exhale....reply.


And please hurry because you just called the Cube Snack Anchoring Hotline.

Thanks for proving my point Dex. Glad you enjoy the roll of village simpleton so much.

[hu-flung-pu]

Intimidate > Divine Righteousness

If you don't know what you're doing, sure.

[Dexxaan]

Thanks for proving my point Dex. Glad you enjoy the roll of village simpleton so much.

(Role.....not Roll).

Again you find these "proving your points" ....... and like Borr asked a few posts ago?

Where?

Im waiting for your Build info and AP Allocation. Don´t think you´ll get away with a few insults.....not on my watch.

[Borror0]

If you don't know what you're doing, sure.

[hu-flung-pu]

My sentiments exactly.

[Borror0]

My sentiments exactly.

I cannot respond politely to your previous comment. Saying that Intimidate is only superior to Divine Righteousness if you don,t know what you are doing is simply riddiculous. You either have neither used Intimidate, don't know how to use it to the full extend of its power or are incredibly deluded.

That is as polite as I can be.

[hu-flung-pu]

Maybe because they're two different things with two different purposes?

But I'll let you think about that one rather then doing the thinking for you.

[Borror0]

Maybe because they're two different things with two different purposes?

That isn't false, but that is not what you first stated.

Either way, Intimidate is far more desirable for an AC tank than Divine Righteousness, which is much more situational.

[hu-flung-pu]

That isn't false, but that is not what you first stated.

Either way, Intimidate is far more desirable for an AC tank than Divine Righteousness, which is much more situational.

Divine righteousness fits in with what a Paladin's being set up for. I need to tank the big boss and try to keep his insta-kill powers away from the others, hit divine righteousness, inflict as much damage as I can, and keep holding on to it. Lay on Hands, and let the Cleric focus on healing me keeps the party safe. While the party mops up what they need to. Letting Fighters grab the little mobs with aggro (with whirlwind it's awesome). Warforged brute fighting just add's to the effectiveness of divine righteousness.

If you're making an AC intimitank, why not just roll a fighter with Paladin/Monk splashes? Not vice verse.

[TommyBoy]

The problem with that argument is that it's pretty hard to pull aggro FROM your barbarian as a paladin.

What is the point of an AC character if he can't tank cause the barbarian has the aggro?

so what about pulling from my monk or my rouge? the point was that there are other ways of pulling agro. quite frankly I'm betting that the fighter fully spec for intimidate still would be hard pressed to hold the agro against my barb if he isn't doing much damage. If im not mistaken intimidate only holds the agro for a few seconds.