My paladin needs help!

[William_the_Bat]

As a perpetual reroller, I've never gotten a character past level 11, now I am bringing up a pure paladin, but at level 10 and starting gianthold, I find myself really wondering if this is going to work. AC is lacking, attack bonus is lacking, DPS is lacking, and I don't own a vorpal. Just got a weakening hand axe, but even that seems to not be as useful as my +3 holy khopesh of righteousness. (oh, for a +5 version!)

Here's what I got so far:

Scarybat, Drow Paladin, level 10, Lawful Good (duh)

STR 16 +1 cake +2 levels +3 gaunts = 22
DEX 12
CON 10 +3 TR belt = 13
INT 10
WIS 14
CHA 16 +1 tome +1 enhacement +2 helm = 20

Health comes out around 185 or so. AC 39 standing

Lay on hands 100, Smite evil khopesh crits 200+

Other gear: +2 resistance ring, blindness ward goggles, +3 protection cloak, +5 plate, +5 shield, +1 natural armor preorder necklace, and a variety of khopeshes, my prize being mentioned above.

Feats: Khopesh, W Focus: slash, toughness, Imp Crit slash, plan on extend at 12.

Enhancements inclue paladin redemption (awesome) divine might 2 (awesome) exalted smite (awesome), unyielding sovrinty (awesome) bulwark II, racial tough II, paladin tough II

The only tome I've used is one that was given to me by a random pugger (thanks again!)

What can I do to make this guy keep up in higher level quests? What gear can I get that won't require sending cash to china? Should I forget paladin redemption or soverignty to get more toughness and bulwark? Should I forget smiting evil in favor of relying on wounding and vorpals (when I get one) Should I reroll a ranger and forget it? Or am I just an an obnoxious awkward stage in development too big for Co6 and too small for Madstone Crater?

Oh, and when we get prestige enhancements, I'm going to die trying to free up enhancement points. I want to do everything! (grin)

[Dexxaan]

Yep. You need help.

Apropriate Gear would definitely push you up a notch or two in many directions. the problem is I dont see the build adding up to much than a base CHA 18 Drow Paladin, and given the huge investment you´ve made in WIS, and the disregard for CON and INT.... you are going to hate the end result if and only if you decide to ever go beyond Level 11. (Which as per your post you NEVER have....so don´t worry have fun and gimme the guys name so I can warn my levelling Guildies)


Conclusion: Mule him - Make a TWF Ranger like everyone else....you´ll be the Flavor of the month, everyone will love you and Paladins will have 1 less reason to be considered the Game gimps.

[William_the_Bat]

Thanks for the note about WIS, that's useful.

The other useful thing you said was about your leveling buddies.

The name is Scarybat, the server is Sarlona, but I doubt they'll encounter me as if they are that worried about uberness they probably don't PUG and they definitely aren't in the guild I'm in. (Vanquished Fury)

Just to be clear, yes, I plan on leveling all the way up for a change, yes I know I need help, and both of these things should be obvious by the way I've taken the time to post here instead of redoing Co6 and Threnal and bragging about my kill counts on pre mod 2 quests.

[Irongutz2000]

Power attack is a very good feat..........it adds insane numbers to smites

LOL ninjad myself :P

[artvan_delet]

Your build seems normal. Not sure if Bruttus was joking around. Power attack should be your next feat. Look for tomes on the AH, +1 tomes are fairly cheap. If you like I'd be glad to send you some if you would like.

[Irongutz2000]

First off don't listen to dex he can be a bit harsh if ur build isn't up to par with his exact standards. Not every pali needs 500+ hp an CE :P


The thing that i see most wrong is there r +4 items that r min 9 an u need to update ur equipment as u lvl. After that just keep putting ur pionts into str, an max out bulwark an toughness enchanments..........also vorps, paras, an disrupters r all min 10, u can find these onn AH for not to step nowa days, happy gaming

[William_the_Bat]

Thanks for your advice. It sounds like I need to do some serious loot runs for cash. I have about 10k plat right now and I've never had more than 17k, I keep buying small upgrades in the AH. The last thing I got was a cha +4 ring min level 11 (uselss second ability) I'll be able to wear it in about 15k XPs.

[Dexxaan]

I have some stashed levelling up items. L9 requirement +4 Stuff.
What FP are you wearing? I have a set of +4 MFP somewhere also.....

Shopping list I´d recommend: Chaosgarde Bracers, +4 CHA Helm, +4 Resistance Cloak, +3 (+4?) Protection Cloak, IFL Ring, Nice Striders (Think I have these too...gotta check), +4 CON necklace or the Adherents Necklace which someone may pull from Wiz King.

Vorpal - Paralyzer and Disuptors I sell but will keep you in mind as soon as I get one.

I also suggest running Invaders until you get the Ring. (Nice +2 Natural Armor and +13 (iirc) to Balance helps you get up after any 4 legged creature knocks you on your moneymaker.

Definitely Power Attack, and leave it on at all times you are buffed or simply are able to hit consistently.

My guildies?...that was a wise-crack (sry didnt spell it out) and you´ll find that GN guys Pug a lot since we all do pour thing no matter if you are power-zerging or casually strolling thru stuff.

Don´t judge them because of my typing "skills".

[Zenako]

Scarybat, the most notable thing missing is "twink" gear. In other words, quite a few vets have gear that would be adding +4 (at a minimum and often +5) to each stat at those levels. You could also add a Improved False Life Item as well for another 20 HP. Once you get enough favor in Gianthold, another 10 HP. More CON, more hit points, etc etc etc

Dex is partially right, on at least the WIS. Probably did not need to start with a 14. Won't truely need a 14 until you are casting 4th level spells, and that is someways off. Had you say started with a lower number in WIS, you could have tossed some of those into CON or some other stat, but that is 20/20 hindsight at this point.

Yup you need some $$$ to pick up suitable gear improvements. It can be hard to remember what it was like having to consider which item you could afford to buy and which you have to pass on, when now you are sitting with 100's of K plat in the bank. Routine play at cap can net characters, quite a bit more than your total worth at this point.

By end game, many of us have used +1 tomes on every stat, just because we can and you will routinely see +6 Stat items in play for any stat that matters (all but INT for most Paladins).

[William_the_Bat]

Now that is some useful advice! Thanks!

yeah, I'm kinda saving the bracers slot until I find chaosguards. I've run xorian several times with no luck so far.

If I do get mithral plate, I'll want a +4 dex item, (probably boots, really only need featherfalling when I'm actually falling, not when I'm fighting). I'm using plain vanilla +5 full plate now, and I'm half considering the +1 ritual on my plain vanilla +5 heavy shield.
That leaves a higher resistance ring, +5 str gloves next level, +4 con belt, and a hat more interesting than the founder's helm for obvious upgrades.

Of course, all this takes cash... I do get cash, but it seems like it's slow going, since I've been buying incremental upgrades and really want to save up for a vorpal. Not sure how much it costs to swap out weapon focus for power attack, but it sounds like a good idea. I'm really set on extend at 12, clicking less is a good thing. I wish extend would work on divine might like it does on dragonmark expeditious retreat, but that's probably asking too much.

Again, thanks a ton for good advice and offers of assistance.

[Delt]

If you enjoy rerolling, I'm gonna simply suggest you reroll. Build a paladin again by all means (I still think they are gimpy as a pure class) just understand Pali's are particularly difficult to get "right" (and by right, I mean effective at 16).

Paladin's are best made with a specific goal in mind - you really can't have it all (like you said you want). Going for an AC build is hard if you aren't plat rich and know the gear, but you can get close with planned out splashes. TWF builds aren't bad (especially with evasion and UMD) but kinda hard to pull off if you don't have the right gear banked/plat. A Pali with THF might sound odd, but with no plat it's probably the easiest/cheapest way for you to obtain the right weapons and a solid ToHit/DPS output. It's not ideal, but it is practical for your scenario.

The reason I suggest rerolling over respeccing (to say THF) is because those extra points you shoved into dex, wis and maybe even cha in order to be a generalist will come back to haunt you. Especially as a drow, where you are eating the extra points already in -2 con and +2 int/dex. All those wasted points add up at the end of the day and serve to cripple you fighting output (con/str)...which appears to be what you care about.

Whatever you do, good luck. Pali's were my first characters in DDO and I hope mod 9 makes them great again (at least in my eyes).

[William_the_Bat]

Hmm, that is something to consider. I like drow because it lets me go 16 cha for cheap (saves, hands, smites, divine might, etc etc) and I don't have 32 pt builds.

And while combat is very important for a paladin, it's not the only thing, hence taking paladin redemption and sovergnity (both expensive) over other enhancements

I appreciate the feedback. I know I'm going to have to throw some of it out the window when we learn more about mod 9 prestige enhancements and capstones, but for now, this is great stuff!

[artvan_delet]

People suggest reroll, but I have to ask you if it's worth it. You've been playing since feb 2006, and this toon isn't above level 10. Youre not uber rich by any means, and that tells me you aren't a powergamer. You have the basic stats for a paladin, str and cha. Your wis is a bit high, and your con a bit low. So what, they aren't that far off. This paladin isn't going to be doing elite shroud runs anytime soon. I think you should just focus on getting the right gear, getting to level 11, and you'll be fine. A reroll won't change that much for this character- 20-40 hp?

You have khopesh, but you'll find tons of cheap bastard swords on the ah. I recommend a swap. They're almost as good as khops, and you'll get a much better selection at much cheaper prices.

I would suggest you consider going for two levels of fighter with this build, no reason right now to stay pure. That may change in the next mod, who knows.

I'm going to send you some stuff. (If you don't want, just let me know.) Chaosgarde's, some tapestries so you can get the minos legens helm (for heavy fort and hp)-you want this helm, some +1 tomes and some gear, +6 con neck, +6 str gloves, greater false life belt, +4 mith fp, +5 protection cloak. These are all quite cheap on the ah. Use your action points to add con and str. Pick up a cheap vorpal and disruptor, and you'll be fine for normal runs. I'm in caffeine, send me a tell, I'll see if we have some mid-level characters on you can run with if you like.

[query]

try out the options WITHOUT rerolling first.

If that doesn't work, THEN reroll.

And a 14 wis is fine unless you're going to a specific kind of stat focused methos. Yes you'll lose other things, but it goes down to 2 stat points for anything past 14 really.

And a 14 wis is still too low if you have a permadeath pallie as we seemed to get held a lot in the early levels.....but I digress (and lost two pallies so far.)

[Zenako]

Looks like some of the gear shortages (immediate and longer term) for this paladin are gonna be somewhat addressed by assorted players. Hope things seem a bit better...

Lots of little perks/buffs will add up in the end and make the character that much more effective/survivable than it might have been before....

[Junts]

the only endgame issue with your build is your abysmal constitution, the rest is equipment fixable, primarily:

you can only melee in gianthold at level 10 if you have an rr heavy fort item or a nightforge gorget.

at 11 with minos legens, you will be ok - its the critical hits that are owning you, i'm sure.

some twinking would help, but your main issue is the lack of heavy fort and your squishiness for a melee.

you will probably have some issues in very high endgame content with your constitution, but if you have a toughness feat and max out racial toughness and wear minos legens, you should be able to be ok - make sure you use a lot of rage potions and such though.

almost all melees have hitting issues at level 10 in gianthold - rememebr the level of the quests.

make sure you keep divine favor up, it will make an enormous impact on your hitting abilities.

extend is really good: trade your weapon focus for power attack and take extend.

a +5 khopesh will help your hitting until you get a few levels to help your bab, and divine favor's +3 will go a long way. eventually you will stop noticing (my pally started a t 17 str and had melee issues in gianthold at level 10, it just happens).

look for a cheapish level 12 vorpal, remeber that the damage on your vorpal doesnt matter, so a longsword or battleaxe is just fine, it doesnt have to be a khopesh.

[Jondallar]

In all seriousness, the best way to fix up your Paladin is to roll up a max cha drow bard because your only barrier is cash flow to purchase the gear you need for success. Take SF: haggle and max ranks in it you dont even really need to level it that high... run it through the npe get to lvl 3 or 4 and find a cheap +3-5 haggle item you can easily get a haggle of +27-29 this will allow you to sell your junk loot for more money (get a friend to do gear transfers to save money mailing) and buy your consumables like wands and potions for much cheaper

As a note of encouragement I have 2 multiclass (less hp than full melee classes) paladin's (human 28 pt and halfing 32 pt) one of which started out with a 9 con and the other with a 10 ... what can I say they are mod1/2 builds. They now both have over 400 hp with their AC's peaking in the low 60's. And they contribute to party's, sometimes even main tanking at the metagame, not elite of course- that is for niche builds designed for that purpose in raids my toons are more versatile and fill any role but main tank on elite.

[William_the_Bat]

Yes, thanks guys! The equipment situation is a lot better now. Level 11, 259 HP, and a few important goodies like minos helm, power attack instead of weapon focus, 40 standing AC, only a small attack bonus hit due to PA thanks to leveling and more strength, but I'm liking 70-80 point non-smite crits, 270+ on a smite.

In fact, my rematch with gianthold went great. We were just doing the explorer area, but at one point I was the last man standing, and several times my paladin redemption and unyielding sovereignty came in very handy. I only wish it were easier to activate all my one-minute buffs and smite evil would regenerate faster.

If I were to reroll again, I'd trade concentration for UMD, WIS for CON, but I think I'll stick with it and stay pure pally for the capstone enhancements etc when they become available.

[Junts]

extend will help you a ton with divine favor and zeal (making them 2 minutes and over 3.5, and makikng your sp go a lot farther).

i swear by it!

looks like you will be medium 300s hp by 16, so you should be relatively survivable in high end raids too, 360ish with your saves is likely enough.

[Zenako]

One thing a moderate High CHA paladin is, is survivable. LoH are virtually instaneous, and really can amp up the survival of paladin in tight circumstances, even when a healer is not close enough, or getting nullified by a beholder for example.

My Paladin has a lot in common with ScaryBat (Human and started with a 12 WIS not a 14 and those point when elsewhere.) At end game I sit with decent AC (no CE INT Too low until they start popping REAL nice bound +4 tomes), mid 20's STR, 18+ CON, 30 CHA. With the recent enhancement building on using turns (DM constantly) (I have 13 turns base without feats or enhancements), I am a lot more effective. (30 CHA = 260 Point LoH) and with 4 uses per rest, that is a lot of emergency healing that has greater range than spells and can reach places spells would be blocked. Quite a few times have used it on short notice to save a caster/cleric in trouble (like with Air Elementals in any number of locations) or thru barriers that block spells.

My guy was a Mod 1 creation build in the Classic old edition D&D mold with a very high starting CHA (had to start with 17+ in old D&D). I enjoy playing him in many situations. I know he is not top shelf DPS (but a lot closer now), nor top shelf AC, but some of that involves gear, which I just don't have.