Important message to Turbine regarding BAB and Module 9

[barabel]

Instead of trying to calculate extra attacks, what about having BABs offer an attack speed bonus instead?

Say:
BAB 5 (+5%)
BAB 10 (+10%)
BAB 15 (+15%)
BAB 20 (+20%)

Adjust numbers as you see fit. Since we have the mechanism in place already to do this (Tempest, Zeal) in theory it should be somewhat easier to implement. Just make these inherent bonuses so they stack with everything else.

Just a thought.

[Aesop]

Randolf, the problem is no new player would ever stick with this game past lvl 2.

They'd quick, and anytime DDO is mentioned, if they didn't bring it up themselves, they'd say something along the lines of "That game's stupid, you literally swing once every few seconds. Boring."


This is a real time MMO, with real time combat (best combat system out there.) To slow it down like that would absolutely kill the game.

In fact I'd say they need to speed it up a touch more than it currently is. RoA for Single handed and Two handed styles in particular are almost painfully slow at times.

Beyond basic DPS improvement I'd say the asthetics are why Haste is so loved... you have rapid attack action that engages the player instead of halfspeed attacks.

Aesop

[Aesop]

Instead of trying to calculate extra attacks, what about having BABs offer an attack speed bonus instead?

Say:
BAB 5 (+5%)
BAB 10 (+10%)
BAB 15 (+15%)
BAB 20 (+20%)

Adjust numbers as you see fit. Since we have the mechanism in place already to do this (Tempest, Zeal) in theory it should be somewhat easier to implement. Just make these inherent bonuses so they stack with everything else.

Just a thought.

I'd perfer a return to the PnP levels of improvement


6
11
16

and maybe an additional improvement at BAB 1 but yeah along those lines would be nice

Aesop

[Dirac]

Instead of trying to calculate extra attacks, what about having BABs offer an attack speed bonus instead?

Say:
BAB 5 (+5%)
BAB 10 (+10%)
BAB 15 (+15%)
BAB 20 (+20%)

Adjust numbers as you see fit. Since we have the mechanism in place already to do this (Tempest, Zeal) in theory it should be somewhat easier to implement. Just make these inherent bonuses so they stack with everything else.

Just a thought.

I agree this would have made sense, if it had been done from the beginning. However, at this point we have to consider the development time completely revamping the attack mechanisms. I don't see everyone hating on the 4th swing, so leave that as is. Add alacrity to BAB 15 to make the 5 swings (nearly) the same as the 4 swings from BAB 10. Then make BAB 20 an alacrity adjustment, without worring about any extra animations. Solving the most serious issues with the least amount of effort.

I would like to emphasize as we debate changes to the game post MOD-8, that we should be skeptical of anything that would detract from creating more high level content.

[Emili]

I'd perfer a return to the PnP levels of improvement


6
11
16

and maybe an additional improvement at BAB 1 but yeah along those lines would be nice

Aesop

Actually.... what should be is all fit into the same time frame

+16/+11/+6/+1 = 4 atttacks at 2.2 seconds just example <- at 16
|--------------| and in this time frame...
|-------x------| if combat is interupted such as...

let's say at the x player moves or switches weapons or like then pressing the combat button again yield nada until the elapsed time completes... only SA will have effect within the 5' move.

When you think about it this way it's similar to spell cooldown.

[Aesop]

Actually.... what should be is all fit into the same time frame

+16/+11/+6/+1 = 4 atttacks at 2.2 seconds just example <- at 16
|--------------| and in this time frame...
|-------x------| if combat is interupted such as...

let's say at the x player moves or switches weapons or like then pressing the combat button again yield nada until the elapsed time completes... only SA will have effect within the 5' move.

When you think about it this way it's similar to spell cooldown.

That would be ideal.... now if they will just do that

Aesop

[Borror0]

I would like to emphasize as we debate changes to the game post MOD-8, that we should be skeptical of anything that would detract from creating more high level content.

I tend to agree, but here the decisions made regarding BAB in M9 will have a lot of impact on multiclassing.

Warchanters, rogues and battle clerics will be tempted to multiclass another 3/4 BAB class if nothing is done, as I doubt they would willingly reduce their DPS. As for full BAB classes, they might also face the same situation if Turbine an animation at 20 BAB. It will define how multiclassing is done for melee classes, and might have some idiotic consequences.

That's why it's really important for Turbine to take this seriously, even if it's time-consuming.

[Angelus_dead]

Warchanters, rogues and battle clerics will be tempted to multiclass another 3/4 BAB class if nothing is done, as I doubt they would willingly reduce their DPS.

Those classes typically have a high motivation to cast Divine Power, simply to reliably hit AC. Naturally that primarily applies to the cleric, although the others might use Madstone Boots.

[Dirac]

That's why it's really important for Turbine to take this seriously, even if it's time-consuming.

I agree that this BAB issue is a very serious gameplay problem. For me, I can't think of a more serious one, atm. To have characters increase their BAB and decrease their dps is awful. I was just frowning on the solutions that involve a complete revamp of the entire system, due to the particular need for more high level content at this time.

[Cyr]

Good point Borro.

My suggestion. Get rid of stupid extra animation and just increase the base attack rate for BAB 15/20. The extra +5 to hit could just as easily be programmed into code to correspond to the attack number independent of the animation shown. That said equalize the attack rates for all two handed weapons (as they are not currently equal)...by speeding up the animation rate on the slower ones to equalize attack speeds. Main reason I suggest this...apparently everything Turbine programs that is not a quest takes up alot of dev time.

[Aesop]

I think I would like them to reformat the Attack Animation into. 0 1 6 11 16 just to more closely match the PnP model with maybe some modifications like this.

BAB 0=1 Attack Animation .5 Sec (2 Attacks per sec)
1= 2Attack Animation .75 Sec (2 and 2/3 attack per sec)
6= 3Attack Animation 1 Sec (3 attacks per sec)
11=4Attack Animation 1.25 Sec (4 Attacks per sec)
16=5Attack Animation 1.5 Sec (4 and 2/3 attack per sec)

this is with added Hook Attack on Animation 4 & 5


Aesop


edit was thinking about TWF

BAB 0= 2/.75 (2 2/3 per sec)
1=3/1 (3 per sec)
6=5/1.25 (ITWF) (4 per sec)
11=9/1.5 (GTWF) (6 per sec)
16=11/1.75 (6.3 or so per sec)

Tempest 3 (before 10% boost) 12/1.75 (6.86 per sec)

numbers aren't quite as pretty here ... but something along those lines... maybe that's too fast or something

[krud]

The S&B animation looks really odd by the way

That's so eff'n true. It looks like that one fingered wave that ****ed off chicks use. All they need to do is to make the toon wiggle its butt to complete the scene.

it kinda looks like this
wag the finger