Important message to Turbine regarding BAB and Module 9

[Aspenor]

I find myself annoyed when using DP clickies on my TWF spellsword that it seems his DPS actually decreases for the reasons outlined here.

It's actually more than a little bit annoying, because the last animation for TWF is ATROCIOUS! What kind of idiotic skilled fighter throws his weapons out in a swan dive like that?

[Turial]

Indeed the BAB ROA slowdown is a little too much. Especially if you look at the weapons with the lowest ROA: Falchons, greatswords, mauls, greataxes, greatclubs...these weapons should all keep pace as BAB increases rather then slowing down dramatically at BAB 15, and any other time an additional attack animation is added.

[Aesop]

I always hated the changed tiers for the Attack increases in general


I could see it if it was

0=1
1=2
6=3
11=4
16=5

basically just adding 1 extra attack in the chain over PnP

an Attack Round should be no more than 2-2.5 sec tops.


If the animation is the problem and they can just apply a % increase to the RoA based on BAB then they should shorten the animation and make it incorporate more "Hooks"

If they can apply a basic RoA increase based on BAB then they should do that.

even just a flat 1% per BAB RoA increase may help alleviate the slow down at the least

Aesop

[nbhs275]

really, they should just tack on an extra hit at bab 20 on the animation, increasing your overall attack speed by 20ish % and giving good incentive to stand still

[Borror0]

really, they should just tack on an extra hit at bab 20 on the animation, increasing your overall attack speed by 20ish % and giving good incentive to stand still

Doesn't solve the 15 BAB problem.

Plus, that would really suck for many multiclassed builds.

[Aesop]

Doesn't solve the 15 BAB problem.

Plus, that would really suck for many multiclassed builds.

I think they should make the added attacks happen at BAB 0 1 6 11 16 first off.(basically adding the spare one in there at BAB 1 vrs PnP.)


Then add a Hook for the Main hand only at BAB 16

Also have a 2% increase in RoA for each extra attack animation so +10% at BAB 16


Aesop

[Randolf_Drake]

A round should be 3 seconds

At 0-5 BAB you should get 1 attack in 3 seconds using any weapon.
If you use TWF, you would get an attack with your off hand in the same time period.

Upon reaching 6 BAB, you should get a second attack at BAB +1.
If you TWF, and get ITWF then you would get a second attack with your off hand at the similarly reduced BAB.

Who Fing cares if you break your **** attack animation in this format. Casters should also be limited to 1 spell every 3 seconds period, unless they have a quicken spell, then they get 2... that is it... period.

Sheesh, at 16th level when you get your 4 attacks in 3 seconds, you will be happy cause everything is balanced. Of course the TWF will get 8 attacks in 3 seconds, if all the feats are available

Oi, and Archery should work the same... if they get 3 attacks with a sword in 3 seconds, they should get 3 shots with their bow... more if they have multishot!

Sheesh, balancing of the game was already done. They swapped the BAB progression, and destroyed any balance. All cause people were breaking the attack animation, wooooo wooopie... now if you stick around for the entire sequence at +15BAB you will end up with a +30 attack that makes you wish you could break animation.... LMAO.

[Deathseeker]

I don't understand why this is so tough for them to fix. They already dynamicallly adjust how fast you swing and animate based on alacrity bonuses. Why can't they just permanently adjust slightly the alacrity of different weapons so that they all work out to be the exact same number of attacks per minute? If the animation slows down the falchion just use the alacrity mechanic to speed up the motion so it gets back in line.

What am I missing?

[bobbryan2]

What about giving the last attack +5 damage on top of the to hit bonus.

[Borror0]

A round should be 3 seconds

At 0-5 BAB you should get 1 attack in 3 seconds using any weapon.

So, you want a round to be two to four times as long as it is now at lower levels?

You want it to be slower than it currently it at BAB 14? (2.58-2.72 versus 3 seconds) That sounds a good recipe to anti-fun for me. Can you ever picture how SLOW the animation will have to be? How boring it will be to get one attack every 3 seconds?! Do you even have a clue of how much rebalancing of quests will be needed?

Think before you say anything.

Who Fing cares if you break your **** attack animation in this format.

Everyone will break the animation, unless you feel like preventing us to attack more than once every 3s if we move.

Sheesh, at 16th level when you get your 4 attacks in 3 seconds, you will be happy cause everything is balanced.

How good is that if it makes lower as boring as ****?!

[Borror0]

What about giving the last attack +5 damage on top of the to hit bonus.

That wouldn't help much. Plus, they stopped the progression to avoid to-hit inflation.

[Randolf_Drake]

So, you want a round to be two to four times as long as it is now at lower levels?

You want it to be slower than it currently it at BAB 14? (2.58-2.72 versus 3 seconds) That sounds a good recipe to anti-fun for me. Can you ever picture how SLOW the animation will have to be? How boring it will be to get one attack every 3 seconds?! Do you even have a clue of how much rebalancing of quests will be needed?

Think before you say anything.

Everyone will break the animation, unless you feel like preventing us to attack more than once every 3s if we move.

How good is that if it makes lower as boring as ****?!

It aint my fault if they didnt see this **** coming.

As far as being boring, how about realizing you are not actually gaining anything for your character by building up attacks as it stands already.

I would feel a heluva lot better about my completed characters knowing that the game is balanced, and having 4 attacks for full on warriors at 16+ level in 3 seconds not factoring in haste and alacrity... yes, I think it would turn out far far better.

I have not achived this so called animation that breaks the game at +15 BAB cause I learned a long time ago a completed character with 2 animation sticking at +9 BAB and getting major bonuses from items, bard song, abilities, enhancments to bring my +9 BAB kick ass animations up to +35 to hit... LMAO....

Seriously, the game is broken, take it back to bare bones rebalance as it should be, and prevent players from inturrupting attack animations, as it currently is BTW.

If you want more attacks in 3 seconds when you are a 1st level character then take TWF.

If mobs are all balanced the same then the game isnt screwed right? Wrong, we are working off the same factors the mobs are now, but for one issue... all the damned animations fark up the system.

[Strakeln]

I just don't understand why Turbine didn't change this a long time ago.

Remember back in the day when you could hit a key when you swung, resulting repeating the first swing over and over, but quickly? Turbine overhauled the entire swinging system in order to avoid this.

They currently have what amounts to essentially the same thing. People wonder how my Greataxe-wielding barbarian holds Sulu's agro with all the tempests whacking at his backside... how? By running backwards against the wall so I swing as if I was moving, avoiding all of the slow animations. It makes a huge difference in DPS.

It's the same thing as before. Yet it's been this way for quite a while now.

[Borror0]

As far as being boring, how about realizing you are not actually gaining anything for your character by building up attacks as it stands already.

It's not about balance, it's about fun.

Getting one attack per three seconds isn't fun for the same reason swinging so slowly at higher levels isn't fun. It's not fun to watch. Your character just swings too slowly. A game's pace is really important. People like going waste. That is why Sonic is such a cool brand. That is why people like Haste and their Time Warp pendant.

That is also why BAB 0 is so dman frustrating. It's twice slower than BAB 1 which, in itself, doesn't look that great.

I would feel a heluva lot better about my completed characters knowing that the game is balanced, and having 4 attacks for full on warriors at 16+ level in 3 seconds not factoring in haste and alacrity... yes, I think it would turn out far far better.

Balance is not everything.

If mobs are all balanced the same then the game isnt screwed right? Wrong, we are working off the same factors the mobs are now, but for one issue... all the damned animations fark up the system.

/facepalm

The mobs are balanced taking in consideration our HP, AC, saves... and DPS! Obviously, DPS contains out swing rate as it is an important contributor to our Damage per Second. If they slow us down, the game will become much harder. Red named will become much more of a challenge. Crowds of mobs will be insanely harder.

Especially at lower levels, as swing rate will get between two and four times slower!

That's an even worse problem since that will automatically drive a lot of newer players if they find the game way too hard. Not that this won't chase old timers as well, because it will.

If you don't believe me, I got two words for you: Ascension Chamber.

[Mindspat]

First of all, there is a possibility of an additional swing at BAB 20 that Turbine has yet to confirm or deny. It is a problem because if there is such a thing, going pure on full BAB classes or splashing full BAB classes becomes a bad idea. It would also severely punish those who multiclassed two levels of a full BAB class and would have to sacrifice the access to the third tier of a PrE in order to avoid getting their DPS cut by another too long animation.

Multiclassing a character should have a trade off. The one thing I dislike the most is how multiclass builds are generally superior to a pure class. There should be many reasons to remain a pure class.

I agree, the attack speed bug needs to be a priority.

The dumbest thing a player can do is biuld a character around a bug to benefit from a flaw. It's going to be a little depressing when a fix is instituted.

[Borror0]

There should be many reasons to remain a pure class.

Never said it was a totally bad idea. But given the lack of class respec...

If you have to sacrifice 10ish percent of your DPS for Evasion, it's not a decision as many people will take.

[Dirac]

I don't understand why this is so tough for them to fix. They already dynamicallly adjust how fast you swing and animate based on alacrity bonuses. Why can't they just permanently adjust slightly the alacrity of different weapons so that they all work out to be the exact same number of attacks per minute? If the animation slows down the falchion just use the alacrity mechanic to speed up the motion so it gets back in line.

What am I missing?

I was going to post/ask exactly the same thing. The weapon issue might be difficult, linking alacrity to particular weapons, but worth looking into.

However, it should be absolutely trivial to give 15 BAB an alacrity bonus so that all their swings take the same as 10 BAB. Wtih no complicated animation changes, this seems a no-brainer. In fact, it seems so obvious, why was it not done to begin with?

[frugal_gourmet]

It's an animation. I would assume their engine allows them control how fast they play it (or parts of it), even down to an individual set of steps (like the last swing). Maybe I'm missing something, though.

Who decided the problem was technical?

[Borror0]

Who decided the problem was technical?

Codog.

[Mhykke]

If you want more attacks in 3 seconds when you are a 1st level character then take TWF.

Randolf, the problem is no new player would ever stick with this game past lvl 2.

They'd quit, and anytime DDO is mentioned, if they didn't bring it up themselves, they'd say something along the lines of "That game's stupid, you literally swing once every few seconds. Boring."


This is a real time MMO, with real time combat (best combat system out there.) To slow it down like that would absolutely kill the game.