Fighter Kensai Preview

[Monkey_Archer]

PA and STR bonus do not equal out, b/c TWF is not double the amount of attacks

At low levels TWF is not double attacks... at high levels GTWF is...

[Sillk]

I'm sure this has been asked and answered, but can't find it at the moment. Is it possible to have Ranger Tempest I AND Fighter Kensai I, or basically more than one prestige enhancement from different classes?

[moorewr]

I'm sure this has been asked and answered, but can't find it at the moment. Is it possible to have Ranger Tempest I AND Fighter Kensai I, or basically more than one prestige enhancement from different classes?

Based on existing prestige lines yes - you can be a tempest/warchanter, for example.

[nbhs275]

/meh I know it's bad of me to toy with the little fella but no one can say I wasn't provoked right?

OK first off - listing in my 'assumptions' that STWF would add a 11th attack in a 10 attack chain, so swing rate would go to 110/100 to reflect this.



So here's the wiki link showing the old STWF feat as it was proposed. 11 attacks per chain.

Very good. Now please explain how your sure its going to be an 11 attack chain within the same timespan as the current 10 attack chain? If you look at most other attack chain increases, overall attack speed is decreased because the chain is longer. So while it could be an additional 10% attack speed increase, its a rather large assumption to make.

OK, AP cost. Yes it's expensive. Well done. So is Tempest in feats but EVERY non-gimp Ranger takes it. Ftrs currently spend 24 AP on Armor/Tower Shield Mastery for a 3 measly AC. They're no strangers to overpriced enhancements.

Rangers need to spend 3 feats, ok. But two of those feats are beneficial in thier own right, and arent overwritten by farther investments.

Oh, and as for 'making arguments supporting Kensai' I believe my words were 'it's not all bad for Kensai, they have one redeeming feature'. From your obviously troubled past, you may think these are words of support, but honestly they're not. They're really more words of sympathy, something I'm surprised you didn't notice. Oh btw, just one 'e' in argument. I know you keep saying I'm a moron and all, but at least I can spell, eh?

What redeeming quality is there in kensia? That its a waterdown overpriced version of a current barbarian? That it brings the fighters overall DPS to nearly competetive levels?


Lastly though, if I sound pro-Ftr............ it's cos I am! I admit it! I even post in a Ftr forum! How crazy is that???

OH, and back to the entire ram's might thing. Its still not 5 damage. Your really not understanding that it applies a flat bonus to each hand are you? +2 str to the rangers base score, and +2 damage each hand. Works out to +1 attack, and +3 damage mainhand, 2-3 offhand, depending on overall strength.

Cold, you keep posting skewed numbers, weak arguements, and now your resorting to name calling because you have no other leg to stand on.

[nbhs275]

Every hit does not produce glancing blows.... 2 every 5 attacks do... or 2 in 4 if you keep moving...
where does a barbarian get 18d6 btw?

I was under the impression that with the full feat chain, a greataxe produced a glancing blow on every swing. If thats not true, and benefit from applied magical effects declines drastically. As far as the numbers go, if your applying all your extra dice on a glancing blow, and it was applied 100% of the time, you would get the 6d6 vicious base, +3d6 elemental(standard greensteel), and then both again on the main swings glancing blows.

[Aesop]

OH, and back to the entire ram's might thing. Its still not 5 damage. Your really not understanding that it applies a flat bonus to each hand are you? +2 str to the rangers base score, and +2 damage each hand. Works out to +1 attack, and +3 damage mainhand, 2-3 offhand, depending on overall strength.

Cold, you keep posting skewed numbers, weak arguements, and now your resorting to name calling because you have no other leg to stand on.

psst. Its been calculated that the Damage bonus from Ram's Might is scaling based on level currently. I can't recall the exact numbers but I believe at current cap its +4 Damage (in addition to Str).

Just thought you should know

Aesop

[nbhs275]

Oh btw, just one 'e' in argument. I know you keep saying I'm a moron and all, but at least I can spell, eh?

Lastly though, if I sound pro-Ftr............ it's cos I am! I admit it! I even post in a Ftr forum! How crazy is that???

So wait, a typo means i can't spell, yet you spell the word "because" as "cos" in the same post? Really strong showing.

[nbhs275]

psst. Its been calculated that the Damage bonus from Ram's Might is scaling based on level currently. I can't recall the exact numbers but I believe at current cap its +4 Damage (in addition to Str).

Just thought you should know

Aesop

hmm. Seems like something to address the devs about, considering the spells discription makes no reference to it scaling in any way. Just tested it on my ranger and it does seem to be giving an additional point of damage to each hand.

[Aesop]

hmm. Seems like something to address the devs about, considering the spells discription makes no reference to it scaling in any way. Just tested it on my ranger and it does seem to be giving an additional point of damage to each hand.

I suspect it will be fixed someday

Aesop

[Cold_Stele]

Edit - nvm.

Why am I wasting minutes of my life arguing with a guy who thinks glancing blows go off on every swing or who has a Rgr but still hasn't realised until now his damage from Ram's is scaling?

/squlech on. If he actually has anything of value to say, maybe someone can let me know...

[Cold_Stele]

Posted at request of Griphon -

Kensai vs FB

Kensai vs FB (if Kensai had +1 Multiplier and +1 Threat Range)

FAO Monkey - sorry bud the calculator doesn't add glancing blows so I couldn't do THF vs TWF with any degree of accuracy whatsoever.

[Monkey_Archer]

Posted at request of Griphon -

Kensai vs FB

Kensai vs FB (if Kensai had +1 Multiplier and +1 Threat Range)

FAO Monkey - sorry bud the calculator doesn't add glancing blows so I couldn't do THF vs TWF with any degree of accuracy whatsoever.

And again im seeing a 50 ac break even point....
Does anything in the game even have a 50 ac???
im pretty sure even elite shroud named orthon trog and kobold are only around 45 or so... (dont quote me on this plz)

While im not gonna look at all the numbers in detail to see if anything is wrong or not... i will point out that the fighter cannot (assuming everything is correct) increase his dps with any feats/enhancements because he already has them.... while the barbarian (might need fighter level or 2 for it to be feasible) can still add weapon spec feats and barbarian power attack....


Hm... just speculation, but maybe it doesnt have 2-handed feats because it is almost pointless to compare to TWF?

Edit: with glancing blows applying roughly 50% of the time, i guess you could calculate the damage of a glancing blow, divide by 2, and add it to each swing for a rough estimate.

[Griphon]

Posted at request of Griphon -

Kensai vs FB

Kensai vs FB (if Kensai had +1 Multiplier and +1 Threat Range)

FAO Monkey - sorry bud the calculator doesn't add glancing blows so I couldn't do THF vs TWF with any degree of accuracy whatsoever.

Thanks Cold!! Much appreciated... These charts are great to compare.

While I'd -love- to see that +1 crit range and +1 Crit multi thrown in on the Kensia class? Thats a LOT of DPS added to the class.

For some reason, I doubt they'd even consider it because it out DPSs the FB (which was stated to be the highest DPSing class, but still not sure about that.) Even though this.. and a high AC based Defender PrE are the only ways that a Fighter will be able to compare IMO.

Aw man... Maybe if all the fighters are really good we can get it for next Festivult.

[Monkey_Archer]

Thanks Cold!! Much appreciated... These charts are great to compare.

While I'd -love- to see that +1 crit range and +1 Crit multi thrown in on the Kensia class? Thats a LOT of DPS added to the class.

For some reason, I doubt they'd even consider it because it out DPSs the FB (which was stated to be the highest DPSing class, but still not sure about that.) Even though this.. and a high AC based Defender PrE are the only ways that a Fighter will be able to compare IMO.

Aw man... Maybe if all the fighters are really good we can get it for next Festivult.

I agree that crit range and crit multiplier might be too much, although there are a few things to consider...

I cant think of anything to increase this kensai's dps (not counting equimpent that both could easily benefit from)
While the barbarian could take weapon spec feats and barbarian powerattack.
Also, the barbarian would do more dps using a khopesh then picks (to calculate 17-18x3, 19-20x5 is the same as 17-20x4)

Finally there is the duration of powersurge (which is unknown as far as i know)
Im guessing that this will not even be close to as long as a rage (being based off action boosts... like show time for example)
So even if a powersurging kensai can out dps a barb they (probably) wont be able to do so far as long.

I dont have a capped barb so im not completly sure but with 4-5 rages isnt that about 15+ minutes of rage compared to (most likely) 8 minutes of powersurge.

Whats to say power surge doesnt go the way of uncanny dodge (30 sec)?
in this case a +1 crit multiplier during 30 second power surge is not really much...

[Aesop]

A Barb would lose FBIII if they took a Weapon Spec Feat Monkey (as Weapon Spec requires Fighter level 4)

add in a RoA increase for the single weapon type 2.5% at tier 1 and 5% at tier 2

calculate in a 5% RoA increase into the calculations see how it goes.


Aesop


edit:

modified a 5% RoA increase... check this one out

http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/...ac=30&maxac=60

[Monkey_Archer]

FB vs Kensai (with range and multiplier)

this exactly the same as Cold Stele's post exept with FB using khopesh as well...

even with multiplier FB still has higher dps then kensai exept vs high ac targets (as usual)

Edit: oh yeah, my bad, i was thinking of weapon focus feat (+1 attack) which would increase dps vs higher ac targets

[Monkey_Archer]

Oh, just realized the FB was only getting 4d6 vicious instead of 6d6...

New numbers..

FB vs Kensai (with crit range and multiplier both using khopesh)

Edit: may as well post the existing kensai with only crit range vs FB with khopesh too...

FB vs Kensai

Oh and just for kicks... Kensai with haste vs FB

FB vs Hasted Kensai

[Cold_Stele]

don't forget FB crit multipliers only work on a 19-20 roll - not sure the calculator can handle two different crit effects from one weapon.

Guys - I've posted these numbers in the general forum fao Eladrin. If you have anything to say about how/if you think kensai should be improved please take a second to post in there.

The thread needs bumping badly so may be on page 2.

[Monkey_Archer]

don't forget FB crit multipliers only work on a 19-20 roll - not sure the calculator can handle two different crit effects from one weapon.

Guys - I've posted these numbers in the general forum fao Eladrin. If you have anything to say about how/if you think kensai should be improved please take a second to post in there.

The thread needs bumping badly so may be on page 2.

With FB half of a khopesh's crits are +2 multiplier which is equal in overall dps to giving a khopsh +1 multiplier for 100% of its crits

ie 17-18x3 and 19-20x5 is equal to 17-20x4
both equate to x16

[Cold_Stele]

Don't forget to reduce extra crit damage. It looks like 5d10 + 36 still from the old x6 crit heavy pick (from acid burst and bloodstone).

I'm reading on my iPhone though so I could be wrong.