Fighter Kensai Preview

[Monkey_Archer]

You let the rangers kill the trash mobs?

Better idea....
Lets have every chest drop wop rapiers then every1 can use the exact same weapon, and every1 is happy....
Rangers and kensai more so...
btw my fighter can usually dps most trash before it can be wounded...
Reavers refuge and shroud devils excluded

All im saying is that wop rapiers already are the best weapon in the game, for and class, any style...
Im not a fan of anything that will further improve this...

I would honestly be overjoyed if my ranger got nerfed (ie 0 con = helpless) and went back to being a specialist class, instead of the overpowered killing machine he is now...

[Tanka]

Reavers refuge and shroud devils excluded

Then you aren't fighting trash mobs. You're going into quests far beyond your level and wasting your time.

[Monkey_Archer]

Then you aren't fighting trash mobs. You're going into quests far beyond your level and wasting your time.

Using dps on trash refers to shroud trogs, anything in Enter the kobold, drow in monestary, even renders in subterranne can usually be killed before a vorpal goes off....
Any1 who tries to dps a giant in prey on the hunter or shroud devils is wasted THEIR time

To clarify, my fighter does not dual-wield, my ranger does..
While it is easier for my str based fighter to dps, it is much faster for my medium str ranger to wound/puncture the same mobs

[Desteria]

Yeah, S&B has a faster swing rate than THF. (Read: This is dumb.)

more it's that if i'm swing oen weapon i might as well get soem exta AC when i dotn care about damage

That may change with next mod though getitng woundign on glacign blows IF it;s close to 100% might be worht it to kepe 2hander out.....

Just realyl depends whether i can be a defender 3 kensie 2 or if they muck it up and make my racial count as my fighter prc wich atm look like it will

[Monkey_Archer]

Back to the issue of balance between fighting styles...

1) there is nothing wrong with 2WF

2) Unless your character is spec'd for ac, the extra ac a shield gives usually does next to nothing besides blocking DR

3) 2-handed weapons damage bonuses do not scale properly when compared with 2WF
-ie. every bard song, weapon specialization feat, damage enhancements etc.. count double for 2WF
-only power attack and kensai scale properly for THF

balance between styles exists at lower levels... where +3-4 ac shield or -2 to hit dual-wielding actually makes a difference

Kensai 1&2 do NOT favor any one style...
damage bonuses scales properly
S&B get half because they have shields... if the shield AC does not make up for it this is a different problem and has nothing to do with kensai

hmm... can a kensai's weapon of choice be a shield?

[Borror0]

Unless your character is spec'd for ac, the extra ac a shield gives usually does next to nothing besides blocking DR

Correction: No matter your build, you'd be better off not being S&B.

[Monkey_Archer]

Correction: No matter your build, you'd be better off not being S&B.

I tend to agree...
S&B has very limited usefullness..
my fighter only uses it for wounding/vorpals... and with the new 2HF glancing blows i doubt i will use a shield on anything but my cleric....

I think 2HF dps can be fixed by scaling damage bonus... S& B might be a lost cause...

[Tanka]

Using dps on trash refers to shroud trogs, anything in Enter the kobold, drow in monestary, even renders in subterranne can usually be killed before a vorpal goes off....
Any1 who tries to dps a giant in prey on the hunter or shroud devils is wasted THEIR time

To clarify, my fighter does not dual-wield, my ranger does..
While it is easier for my str based fighter to dps, it is much faster for my medium str ranger to wound/puncture the same mobs

You DPS anything in Shroud that's not immune to stat-damage/vorpal? Wow.

The majority of groups I run with either run vorpals or w/p. So I picked up a pair of wounding axes and help them when wounding, and switch to my vorpals when they're vorpaling.

DPS is for things that can't be vorpal'd/Con-damaged to death.

[nbhs275]

You DPS anything in Shroud that's not immune to stat-damage/vorpal? Wow.

The majority of groups I run with either run vorpals or w/p. So I picked up a pair of wounding axes and help them when wounding, and switch to my vorpals when they're vorpaling.

DPS is for things that can't be vorpal'd/Con-damaged to death.

it takes on average 20 swings to vorpal any mob. If your a good melee, you should be doing over 50 average damage a swing. Which means any mobs with less then 1000 HP, its faster to DPS then vorp. Even a WoP rapier is doing less then 2 con damage on average a swing. So depending on the enemies con, it takes just as long to wop them as to DPS them. It's only in the refuge and SoS where each giant has 10k hp, where WoP is signifigantly faster.

[Borror0]

Even a WoP rapier is doing less then 2 con damage on average a swing.

Epic fail.

[Tanka]

Epic fail.

Quoted For Truth

[Dexxaan]

quoted For Truth

Rofl

[Monkey_Archer]

You DPS anything in Shroud that's not immune to stat-damage/vorpal? Wow.

The majority of groups I run with either run vorpals or w/p. So I picked up a pair of wounding axes and help them when wounding, and switch to my vorpals when they're vorpaling.

DPS is for things that can't be vorpal'd/Con-damaged to death.

Funny, If i pull out my wounding kukri i still kill a trog before it runs out of con....

Also, the majority of groups dual-wield....

[Borror0]

Funny, If i pull out my wounding kukri i still kill a trog before it runs out of con...

Trog, true. Orthon and Bearded Devil?

[boldarblood]

True, Greataxe will do slightly more damage overall due to attack speed..
but will be more likely to overkill and is less benefitial to critical effects on weapons like enfeebling, slowburst, etc...
I would prefer the sword for trash mobs

You are chosing to use the lesser of two weapons then. All things being equal between the weapons (same plus, same effect, etc), only different between GreatAxe, Falchion and GS, the GA wins every time. Also Dwarf Axe Attack/Damage can make it even a bigger difference.

[Monkey_Archer]

You are chosing to use the lesser of two weapons then. All things being equal between the weapons (same plus, same effect, etc), only different between GreatAxe, Falchion and GS, the GA wins every time. Also Dwarf Axe Attack/Damage can make it even a bigger difference.

This is EXACTLY the reason further increasing greataxe superiority by extending crit range is a bad idea...

(see how my rant came full circle?)

[Borror0]

This is EXACTLY the reason further increasing greataxe superiority by extending crit range is a bad idea...

You are choosing the wrong target. Not Kensai, but swing rate.

[Gratch]

Kensai looks awesome... just wish the prereq was Fighter Haste Boost line instead of the much less useful and utterly worthless for "Versatile" Humans Fighter Attack Boost. Even the Fighter Damage Boost line would be quite a bit more useful.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE reconsider making it Fighter Attack, Fighter Haste OR Damage Boost <II-IV> or switching it completely to the Fighter Haste Boost line.

I know, I know... they have to put prereqs in that no-one takes.

Hmmm... though I guess we need the Attack Boosts to power our Power Surges... I guess having 15 boosts of Haste, Damage, Power Surge should almost last through the Pit Fiend battles in part 4 and 5. Now I just need a lot more action points.

[Angelus_dead]

Kensai looks awesome... just wish the prereq was Fighter Haste Boost line instead of the much less useful and utterly worthless for "Versatile" Humans Fighter Attack Boost. Even the Fighter Damage Boost line would be quite a bit more useful.

As has been already explained multiple times in this thread, Kensai gain both attack and damage (and even melee DC) by spending an Attack Boost. That's due to their Power Surge feature at level 12.

[Monkey_Archer]

You are choosing the wrong target. Not Kensai, but swing rate.

No, i am not...
If attack rates were equal crit range will still benefit greataxe more then greatsword. Attack rate only furthers the problem of crit range, not the other way around.

This is a smack in the side of the head to all casual gamers that chose a "classic" fighter weapon (ie any sword).

I can see it now....
Oh look, we pulled the devil.... Any kensai with greataxe wanna solo him? oh you have a sword... nm then we'll let the barbarian do it....

It is true that crit multipliers would benefit swords in the EXACT same way crit range benefits greataxe.

The only difference is that axe swing rate (and dwarvern enhancements) would keep the greataxe a viable option with crit multiplier.
There are no current advantages or enhancements that would keep greatswords on par with crit range.

AND crit range favors stat damagers.