Fighter Kensai Preview

[white_lab_rat]

Looks like if you want it you will have to go Dex based.

Any chance of at least having a feat that permits light or med armor Ki regen somewhere in the Kensai tree? Or allow only heavy armor and get rid of the evasion advantage also as a way of making people chose.

If as a fighter your limited completely to no armor and monk weapons there is zero reason to not be a monk 100% and forget the rest.

I realize that is probably as intended but still...consider it. =)

[nbhs275]

Looks like if you want it you will have to go Dex based.

Any chance of at least having a feat that permits light or med armor Ki regen somewhere in the Kensai tree? Or allow only heavy armor and get rid of the evasion advantage also as a way of making people chose.

If as a fighter your limited completely to no armor and monk weapons there is zero reason to not be a monk 100% and forget the rest.

I realize that is probably as intended but still...consider it. =)

huh? that post made very little/no sense. Kensia deals with the weapons of a fighter, not his armor.

[Angelus_dead]

huh? that post made very little/no sense. Kensia deals with the weapons of a fighter, not his armor.

He sees that kensai has certain benefits to Ki income, but fighters in armor cannot retain Ki. Therefore he thinks it would be helpful to allow a kensai certain exemptions from the normal rule against using monk powers in armor.

[nbhs275]

He sees that kensai has certain benefits to Ki income, but fighters in armor cannot retain Ki. Therefore he thinks it would be helpful to allow a kensai certain exemptions from the normal rule against using monk powers in armor.

if you want ki and its powers, you gotta play by its rules. Anyways, probably only kensia that will be worrying about building ki will be mostly monk and shun armor anyways.

14/6 would be the smart split, the +4 damage you get from the fighter would be more then the increase from 2d8 to 2d10. Plus a little seeker and tohit bonus is useful.

[Monkey_Archer]

Looks like if you want it you will have to go Dex based.

Any chance of at least having a feat that permits light or med armor Ki regen somewhere in the Kensai tree? Or allow only heavy armor and get rid of the evasion advantage also as a way of making people chose.

If as a fighter your limited completely to no armor and monk weapons there is zero reason to not be a monk 100% and forget the rest.

I realize that is probably as intended but still...consider it. =)

I dont see much insentive to make a kensai monk atm...
lvl 2 monks basically have no use for ki, so you could only really go to kensai 2.

I dont see kensai monks being allowed to wear armor either...
and if u have no armor and need monk weapons better just to go all monk...

Though, if kensai weapon of choice would allow a kensai monk to remain completly centered i could think of a few effective builds that are not dex based... (maybe a 12/8 elf kensai monk with longswords... cough cough i mean rapiers)

[Angelus_dead]

I dont see much insentive to make a kensai monk atm...
lvl 2 monks basically have no use for ki, so you could only really go to kensai 2.

Monk2 has some minor use for Ki; it's better than nothing.

However a kensai fighter18/monk2 would get much more combat benefit from using "real" weapons than monk weapons with occasional blasts of Ki attacks. It's a fine build for AC and evasion, but not for using Ki. Maybe some weird player will try that, but it won't be too good.

Fig12/Monk8 and Fig6/Monk14 are also ideas, and I suppose the latter is best, but I still don't really think 6 fighter levels + kensai would make up for losing 4-6 monk levels. If DDO had more good feats, then the fighter levels would have additional value.

[Angelus_dead]

14/6 would be the smart split, the +4 damage you get from the fighter would be more then the increase from 2d8 to 2d10. Plus a little seeker and tohit bonus is useful.

It doesn't make up for reduced attack speed by missing tier 4 monk stance.

[Monkey_Archer]

Monk2 has some minor use for Ki; it's better than nothing.

However a kensai fighter18/monk2 would get much more combat benefit from using "real" weapons than monk weapons with occasional blasts of Ki attacks. It's a fine build for AC and evasion, but not for using Ki. Maybe some weird player will try that, but it won't be too good.

Fig12/Monk8 and Fig6/Monk14 are also ideas, and I suppose the latter is best, but I still don't really think 6 fighter levels + kensai would make up for losing 4-6 monk levels. If DDO had more good feats, then the fighter levels would have additional value.

yeah, the biggest problem with multiclassing monks is that fist damage is reduced too much to make anything but a few levels worth it, let alone 6-12.

the F12/M8 would need to be able to use ki with non-monk weapons to be worth it.
F6/M14 would be better as it stands, but the small increase in damage and seeker just doesnt make up for the loss of fist damage, not to mention quivering palm..... (making dex based ac kama user with no dps the only real option)

[Monkey_Archer]

Well, maybe a Fighter 12/ monk8 dwarf/WF STR/CON build using quarterstaffs might be worth trying... just for kicks..

[nbhs275]

It doesn't make up for reduced attack speed by missing tier 4 monk stance.

and do we have any evidence of such stances existing?

[Angelus_dead]

and do we have any evidence of such stances existing?

Uh? Yes, yes we do have that evidence.

[Borror0]

and do we have any evidence of such stances existing?

We do.

[hu-flung-pu]

Weapon Ki: Long Sword
Long swords are considered centering.

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Feat:...Ki:_Long_Sword

Now, even if that's not put in ever, a 12 kensai/8 monk would still get +18 on a critical and +10 non-critical damage modifier swinging a q-staff. Along with all the level 6 monk benefits.

That's before any other bonuses or damage multipliers.

Theoretical max damage bonus for a q-staff swinging kensai/monk with a double madstone rage would have a 49 STR, that gives a +19 modifier, two handing offers double that, +5 power attack bonus, +5 weapon bonus, and you're now doing a base 58 damage per swing. Do the math for a critical and you're now doing a base 132 damage on a critical.

That's with a big friggin' stick!

Throw in 6 rogue two monk, and you just get even more ******** with your weapon speed now coming in to play with acrobat PrE's with out adding in the rogue sneak attack bonuses.

I don't think people have thought this through completely on why combining monk is a bad thing with Kensai.


Edit: After calculating the STR, I'm still missing plus 3 from enhancements, so it's a +21 modifier with a 52 theoretical max STR. Upping the damage output even higher.

[Monkey_Archer]

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Feat:...Ki:_Long_Sword

Now, even if that's not put in ever, a 12 kensai/8 monk would still get +18 on a critical and +10 non-critical damage modifier swinging a q-staff. Along with all the level 6 monk benefits.

That's before any other bonuses or damage multipliers.

Theoretical max damage bonus for a q-staff swinging kensai/monk with a double madstone rage would have a 49 STR, that gives a +19 modifier, two handing offers double that, +5 power attack bonus, +5 weapon bonus, and you're now doing a base 58 damage per swing. Do the math for a critical and you're now doing a base 132 damage on a critical.

That's with a big friggin' stick!

Throw in 6 rogue two monk, and you just get even more ******** with your weapon speed now coming in to play with acrobat PrE's with out adding in the rogue sneak attack bonuses.

I don't think people have thought this through completely on why combining monk is a bad thing with Kensai.


Edit: After calculating the STR, I'm still missing plus 3 from enhancements, so it's a +21 modifier with a 52 theoretical max STR. Upping the damage output even higher.

with a 12Fighter/6Rogue/2Monk what is the point of monk levels and ki bonuses? (besides the bonus feats)

Kensai monks might not be a bad idea from a standard evasion fighter perspective, there is just very limited ways you could actually take advantage of the ki bonuses.

[Monkey_Archer]

Any word on if Ki:longwords will be added in mod 9?

[Griphon]

How about:

Any word at all on a look over of the PrE based on player input?

The PrE is showing to be in a sorry shape compared to the other PrEs shown so far. Many of us have given decent advice, and input.. Has it been heard? Has it been taken into account?

[Monkey_Archer]

How about:

Any word at all on a look over of the PrE based on player input?

The PrE is showing to be in a sorry shape compared to the other PrEs shown so far. Many of us have given decent advice, and input.. Has it been heard? Has it been taken into account?

I second this request for input confirmation....

So far kensai looks expensive, underpowered, and weapon biased when compared with other PrEs...
Almost like a sad sorry version of a current lvl 14 barbarian.

Edit: i will be taking it regardless on my dps fighter.... well i dunno if dps is the right word anymore :\

[hu-flung-pu]

with a 12Fighter/6Rogue/2Monk what is the point of monk levels and ki bonuses? (besides the bonus feats)

Kensai monks might not be a bad idea from a standard evasion fighter perspective, there is just very limited ways you could actually take advantage of the ki bonuses.

The two monk levels open up ki strikes (and yes an extra 4 base damage can be useful), wind stance attack speed stacking with acrobat attack speeds, WIS bonus to AC, and no penalty to BAB with a quarter staff. Use your imagination a bit.

The smaller the splash the more diminished the returns. But you also aren't sacrificing much of the focus on what you're trying to do.

[hu-flung-pu]

How about:

Any word at all on a look over of the PrE based on player input?

The PrE is showing to be in a sorry shape compared to the other PrEs shown so far. Many of us have given decent advice, and input.. Has it been heard? Has it been taken into account?

Until we play it why should they listen? Now, they could already have our concerns addressed and take them in to consideration. But I doubt it's anything more then a suggestion box that leads to a furnace.

[nbhs275]

The two monk levels open up ki strikes (and yes an extra 4 base damage can be useful), wind stance attack speed stacking with acrobat attack speeds, WIS bonus to AC, and no penalty to BAB with a quarter staff. Use your imagination a bit.

The smaller the splash the more diminished the returns. But you also aren't sacrificing much of the focus on what you're trying to do.

Two monk gives anyone in robes wis to AC and evasion. Past that, alot of its not useful. Sure, wind stance would be an ok thing, tho remember its only 3.5 while hasted. And the ki strikes, the way they SLOW DOWN your attack chain and have a long cooldown, really no advantage there.