Fighter Kensai Preview

[Borror0]

I can see it now....
Oh look, we pulled the devil.... Any kensai with greataxe wanna solo him? oh you have a sword... nm then we'll let the barbarian do it....

Exaggerating a bit? You should the number, you might be surprised of the little difference between the two.

The only difference is that axe swing rate (and dwarvern enhancements) would keep the greataxe a viable option with crit multiplier.
There are no current advantages or enhancements that would keep greatswords on par with crit range.

Seeker-like bonuses like the ones in Kensai are biased toward larger crit ranges, for example.

The only difference the gap will be noticeable is because the swing rate of Grearsword horribly sucks. Fix that and you'll see much Greatswords.

AND crit range favors stat damagers.

So does faster swing rate. Are you complaining about Tempest I, Wind Stance and Zeal too?

[Turial]

... Are you complaining about Tempest I, Wind Stance and Zeal too?

Who doesn't these days.

Also nice signature.

[Monkey_Archer]

Exaggerating a bit?

Yes, but that doesnt change the fact that greataxes are better then greatswords...
and this enhancement favors the already better weapon...

I am only pointing out a weapon imbalance that is only getting worse.
I would rather see an enhancement that unfairly benefits and inferior weapon instead of a superior one.

And this is a discussion on kensai, not rangers, monks, or paladins..
and attack speed helps all weapons equally, not just stat damagers and high crit weapons.

[Borror0]

Yes, but that doesnt change the fact that greataxes are better then greatswords...
and this enhancement favors the already better weapon...

You should complain that the weapon is already better rather than complaining it is getting better, because that's what the real problem is.

Anyway, given the power of Tempest III, I wouldn't be surprised to see Kensai receiving some love.

And this is a discussion on kensai, not rangers, monks, or paladins..
and attack speed helps all weapons equally, not just stat damagers and high crit weapons.

I know, but if you mind a greater threat range, then you should go balistic at Tempest I-III.

That is crazily imbalance in regards to stat-damage.

[Griphon]

Anyway, given the power of Tempest III, I wouldn't be surprised to see Kensai receiving some love.

Devs,

Having looked over at least one PrE/Specialty from each class now... People are still saying that Kensia is underpowered, costly, and underwhelming. We've seen proof that the PrEs are still in development and that you guys do hear us when we give valid points. (Like in the Fine Tuning of the Barbarian Frenzied PrE)

So I gotta ask some questions... Is Kensia under review at all? Do we have the possibility of a Kensia Overhaul and redesign? Our any of our suggesting being considered, even if the idea is being altered prior to implementation?

Inquiring Minds.. and the last few pure bred fighters want to know!

[Silverjade]

Devs,

Having looked over at least one PrE/Specialty from each class now... People are still saying that Kensia is underpowered, costly, and underwhelming. We've seen proof that the PrEs are still in development and that you guys do hear us when we give valid points. (Like in the Fine Tuning of the Barbarian Frenzied PrE)

So I gotta ask some questions... Is Kensia under review at all? Do we have the possibility of a Kensia Overhaul and redesign? Our any of our suggesting being considered, even if the idea is being altered prior to implementation?

Inquiring Minds.. and the last few pure bred fighters want to know!

I know that with these my grt axe(yes a twohander gasp ahhh the horror) will injoy this PRE in the forum its in now but any tweaking to make it even better would not be bad.
I am even thinking of rolling a 2rog/18ftr with either duel scimys or just q-staffs.

[Monkey_Archer]

Hmm... crazy idea...
How about give +1 crit range and crit multiplier?

Might justify the horendous AP cost and would keep the sword and axe users happy...

[Monkey_Archer]

That is crazily imbalance in regards to stat-damage.

Any1 who thinks wop should be nerfed say I.... I

[Aesop]

Any1 who thinks wop should be nerfed say I.... I

Nope. I think Weakening of Enfeebling and Maldroit of Bonebreaking should paralyze opponents that are reduced to 0 Str or Dex as it would in PnP.

I think certain Mob HP shoud be reduced to around 75% or so of what they currently are. notably the Shroud Orthons and the Frost Giants

Aesop

[Borror0]

Any1 who thinks wop should be nerfed say I.... I

Con damage is not the problem, although Puncturing might be worth reducing to 1d3.

The real problem is sky high HP.

[Deathseeker]

Con damage is not the problem, although Puncturing might be worth reducing to 1d3.

The real problem is sky high HP.

Borr, your approach to always focus on the root cause, while commendable, isnt always practical.

The high HP is due to the high DPS of the player base and designing the quest around it. The high DPS is caused by several imbalances in player abilities (ie Current Barb Crit Rage) and the loot fest we all love known as the Shroud.

The Shroud and its loot is here to stay. It is not practical, feasible or wise to touch it due to its popularity. They are slowly fixing some of the build imbalances, but those fixes may turn into overall player escalation also (ie all of the new PrE's).

Therefore, player DPS is here to stay.

The offset...high mob hp.

The player response...WoP em, as that is a method that the hp inflation did not affect, and players will always eventually find the easiest path to completion.

Here's the key.

Either
1. The devs unintentionally raised mob HP. I highly doubt that.
2. The devs raised it as they felt that was the best quest design, but didnt take WoP into account.
3. The devs have it working as intended.

If its item 1, you'll see mob HP reduced. I highly doubt thats the case though, as that means they never even ran the quest once in testing...unless they did test it, but only used WoPs in testing, and didnt realize how hard it was to kill without them. That's pretty unlikely as well (but kind of humorous to contemplate).

If its item 2, you'll see WoP's nerfed, or mobs adjusted to resist con damage. This would mean they did not test thoroughly enough to understand just how different the quest would play using WoP's vs Without....or...they underestimated the annoyance to the player base of the difference in how the quest played one way vs the other.

If its item 3, nothing will change.

My big guess...its item 2, and they tested it but didnt realize the effect of having a quest play so differently WoP vs no WoP.

And thus, after an overly long winded response (because its either this or finishing my outline for my boss), I think its very unlikely they'll address the core problem, which is not inflated HP on mobs...but rather inflated HP on mobs because of inflated player abilities and overpowered loot crafting.

[Borror0]

Borr, your approach to always focus on the root cause, while commendable, isnt always practical.

True, but most of the time while it requires more work it will be worth it most of the time.

You may not think about it, but most of the changes I qualify of 'workarounds' have serious drawback in the long term. If you don't solve the problem and simply ignore it, it will come back at you later on you will regret it because it will much more painful to address it now as you've built a lot of stuff around it.

My big guess...its item 2, and they tested it but didnt realize the effect of having a quest play so differently WoP vs no WoP.

If the engine can support it, more mobs is better than high HP mobs for multiple reasons.

And thus, after an overly long winded response (because its either this or finishing my outline for my boss), I think its very unlikely they'll address the core problem, which is not inflated HP on mobs...but rather inflated HP on mobs because of inflated player abilities and overpowered loot crafting.

The real problem was incredible nuking capacity, not crafting since that's related to melee DPS. Spellcasting DPS is what requires nerfing.

Since it is almost nonexistent now, I doubt there will be much complaining anywayé

[Deathseeker]

If the engine can support it, more mobs is better than high HP mobs for multiple reasons.

Amen!

As long as they are somewhat resistant to firewall and blade barrier (not completely, just somewhat). Otherwise its just another "go round up 50 more trogs and bring em through the maximized blade barrier"...

How about 50 air elementals?

...ok, maybe not the best choice either...but yes, quantity is good vs HP inflations, totally agreed. Brings in crowd control strategies, which is great.

[Borror0]

Amen!

As long as they are somewhat resistant to firewall and blade barrier (not completely, just somewhat).

Do you realize that the spells are problematic if it's your first reaction?

Nerfing them is for the better in the end.

[Aesop]

The real problem was incredible nuking capacity, not crafting since that's related to melee DPS. Spellcasting DPS is what requires nerfing.

Since it is almost nonexistent now, I doubt there will be much complaining anywayé

While I know everyone loves those really big numbers the Stacking Enhancement and Item rules have lead to a this especially when coupled with the Metamagic Rules.

Maximize +100%
Empower +50%
Superior Potency +50%
Enhancement +40%

and that's before Criticals

I mean the damage done is amazing

in PnP maximize does 100% damage ... not +100% damage but just makes it so it does "maximum" damage. So the best you're doing is 150% damage ... at least with out some major stacking and then you can't cast the spell because the Spell Level has been raised too high. Here you can Maximize Empower and Extend a Fire Wall... in PnP that'd be a 10th level effect...meaning you'd have to be an Epic Caster to even cast it.

Yeah we have some inflation issues with Spell Casting. Cut the Item and Enhancement Bonuses in half and we'd be better off... I know it probably won't happen but it would help

Aesop

[EinarMal]

Do you realize that the spells are problematic if it's your first reaction?

Nerfing them is for the better in the end.

I think spells like blade barrier and fire wall should have a timer on how often a mob could be hit by them. So, every 10 seconds if they go through the same blade barrier they would take damage.

This would simulate better mob AI, or geeze that big wall of whirling blades hurt maybe I should not run through it again.

[Aesop]

I think spells like blade barrier and fire wall should have a timer on how often a mob could be hit by them. So, every 10 seconds if they go through the same blade barrier they would take damage.

This would simulate better mob AI, or geeze that big wall of whirling blades hurt maybe I should not run through it again.

I'd like to see a Caster Mob that is damaged by one ofthese tho throw Break Enchantment or for the rule that a section of Wall of Fire that takes 10 cold damage is destroyed... something like that would be neat and show better AI

Aesop

[Desteria]

So does faster swing rate. Are you complaining about Tempest I, Wind Stance and Zeal too?

Who doesn't these days.

Also nice signature.

OMG Borro0 is that sig new I love it, I purty much use any thign BUT the compendium for information my self.....

[Monkey_Archer]

I find that the subterranne has remarkable balance in mob hp/con/saves

DPS is an option, WOP is an option and vorpal is an option down there....
Casters can nuke with effectiveness, or enervate,finger if they are spec'd for it.

The biggest problem is with WOP... as the level cap goes up to 20... there will be new quests, new mobs, with more inflated hp...

if WOP and vorpal are already the "only sensible" option for some mobs, wait till the new content comes out..
Personally id rather see more melee options then dual wieling wop/vorpals.

Which of the following does not belong:

Reduce attack and damage of a monster untill its helpless
Reduce ac and reflex of a monster untill its helpless
Reduce the hp and fortitude of a monster untill... it dies

One way to fix this would be to go alter every monsters con, make mobs resistant to con damage, create an AI to make enemy clerics cast restore when they detect con damage... or just make puncturing have the same effect as enfeebling and bone breaking

[Borror0]

Casters can nuke with effectiveness

Really? Since when?

Which of the following does not belong:

Reduce attack and damage of a monster untill its helpless
Reduce ac and reflex of a monster untill its helpless
Reduce the hp and fortitude of a monster untill... it dies

Do you know what the definition of constitution is?