Fighter Kensai Preview

[Turial]

Oh, will the +8 Insight bonus to strength stack with tomes ?

It should.

[bobbryan2]

It would work just like barb crit rage. Improved crit applied first, then the threat increase from kensai.

If it works like Barb crit rage...

Which is the point of asking.

[ShadowFox1978]

Oh, will the +8 Insight bonus to strength stack with tomes ?

Tomea re Inherent not insight, and enhancements have always stacked.

[Tin_Dragon]

+8 insight, Tomes are a permant +'x', INHERENT bonus, so YES.

[Silverjade]

nvm was thing shroud stuff lol.

[The_Phenx]

Eladrin.

With the power surge I can loose my complaints about fighters attack boost being useless, since we will be able to spend those uses on a +8 str boost. SO ...

I have a couple important questions if you would be so kind.

1. Will this function like showtime in the fact that we will be able to click the Kensai Power Surge, then click off a fighters speed boost at the same time to stack the +8 str and 30% alacrity?

2. Are there any plans to revisit the costs of fighters armor mastery/shield mastery? As Kensai will be a very expensive line, and it will help to free up much needed action points, allowing fighters to keep their ac up as well as specalize. Perhaps making them 1pt 2 pt 3pt each, as opposed to the 12pt total they each are now?

[ShadowFox1978]

nvm was thing shroud stuff lol.

Shroud stuff is exceptional not insight.

[bobbryan2]

As much as Fighter Attack Boost 'fits' Kensai... it's still kinda blah that Fighter Haste Boost will still do more damage than the power surges. (At first glance, anyway).

30% of 50 damage comes out to basically 15 damage extra per swing.

+8 strength comes out to 6 damage per swing

Sure, the strength gives you a 'to hit' bonus as well... but that's a pretty big discrepancy between damage totals.

Maybe power surge could also give a +6 to damage? Similar to how Ram's Might works? Remember... Haste boost also speeds up proc rates of W/P and Lightning Strike.

[Paladin20]

That is just plain SICK.

[ShadowFox1978]

If it works like Barb crit rage...

Which is the point of asking.

It is worded just like crit rage, and if they applied it pre-feat it would be a 2 step increase. 2 step in one enhancment is to good to be true, even for a top tier enhancment.


All in all, I think it is shaping up to make fighters more in line, even if it is a bit expensive currently. We can hope they revist the AP cost.

[Yaga_Nub]

All in all, I think it is shaping up to make fighters more in line, even if it is a bit expensive currently. We can hope they revist the AP cost.

I don't think it's expensive at all. It's not 3 out of 6 feats + APs expensive.

[MrCow]

As much as Fighter Attack Boost 'fits' Kensai... it's still kinda blah that Fighter Haste Boost will still do more damage than the power surges. (At first glance, anyway).

30% of 50 damage comes out to basically 15 damage extra per swing.

+8 strength comes out to 6 damage per swing

Sure, the strength gives you a 'to hit' bonus as well... but that's a pretty big discrepancy between damage totals.

There are other bonuses that the +8 STR has, such as increasing your DC on things like improved trip, stunning blow, and resistance to knockdown.

[ShadowFox1978]

I don't think it's expensive at all. It's not 3 out of 6 feats + APs expensive.

Expensive in that it will cost more than 1/4 of all AP at level 20, but then again the benifits may be worth it, time will tell.

[bobbryan2]

There are other bonuses that the +8 STR has, such as increasing your DC on things like improved trip, stunning blow, and resistance to knockdown.

Yeah, but my very quick numbers were ignoring bonuses such as bard songs, critical hits, and prayer.

All of those things increase haste boosts' damage, while leaving power surge static. In reality, it's probably a bigger discrepancy between damage totals than what I originally posted.

What if the power surge had the +8 strength, and also gave a +12-15% speed boost. While the +8 strength is nice in the +4 bonus to DCs and resistance to knock down... I think those things are tertiary to damage totals.

[The_Phenx]

Critical threat range increases will be rarer in the future, but we thought it appropriate that the undisputed master of a specific weapon would have access to such a powerful ability. Precision is the mark of a true swordmaster.

I've often thoguht the critical rage enhancement for barbs should have been additional multiplier not range...

Cheers...

W/P will rule for stat... Kopesh will still rule for dps, so I'm all good.

[The_Phenx]

Eladrin 1 more question no one seems to be asking.

Tier I and II grant +1 to hit +1 Damage +2 to confirm and +2 to crit damage.

SO my question is

Is the +4 to critical damage in addition to the +2 to damage or instead of.

So is it a total of +6 pre multiplier damage or +4?

[Aerendil]

I've often thoguht the critical rage enhancement for barbs should have been additional multiplier not range...

Cheers...

W/P will rule for stat... Kopesh will still rule for dps, so I'm all good.

Agreed 100% Phenx. Barbarians are about power, and damage multipliers would reflect that.
Kensai are about precision and skill, hence crit threat range mods.

Congrats to the Fighters. Nice way to end the work week, with that little bomb!

[Junts]

Just a few comments.
1. Tier 2 and tier 3 are very respectable and more inline with other classes which is great.

2. Tier 1 is still disappointing in comparison to Tempest 1 so it is much better to go 12 fighter 6 ranger then 12 ranger 6 fighter which I feel shouldn't be the case.

3. I am not a 100% sure that this is enough actually. It makes the fighter competitive with the other classes as they currently stand but vs. rangers at level 20 with tempest 2 and tempest 3 and barbarians with their prc and barb crit rage 2 and paladins with their prc and zeal and divine might I am not sure will be competitive.

4. Tier 3 although nice is very pro rapier again. This game is in danger of becoming all piercing specced players. I am not sure how to fix that well anyway up to you.

you know, they've said a few times that tempest I will change when tempest II and III come in, so you probably dont want to make that direct comparison just yet - tempest 1 (and warchanter/spellsinger 1) basically give you tier 2 in the same enhancement right now

[maddmatt70]

you know, they've said a few times that tempest I will change when tempest II and III come in, so you probably dont want to make that direct comparison just yet - tempest 1 (and warchanter/spellsinger 1) basically give you tier 2 in the same enhancement right now

I heard them hint at this before. I have very mixed feelings regarding a change to tempest. Alot of players have built characters with 6 levels of ranger and then to nerf that out is very harsh. Hah, I for instance am leveling up a rogue with 6 ranger levels. It is rough to suddenly alter players' builds that have been out there a long time, although mine has not been. Some people made chars almost a year ago with just 6 level of ranger or so. I would rather tempest 1,2, 3 not change tempest 1, but other classes get similar power points. As long as the mobs at end game make any sense at all this if it were like this it would be the preferred option in my opinion.

[Aesop]

Sorry I know you are trying I'm just a little underwhelmed.

Barbarians get 2 Critical Enhancements 4 levels earlier than Fighters get 1... and theres come without Prerequisites and cost less... I understand you are trying to tone this back a little ... but its just not as awe inspiring as I was hoping given the disparity between the classes thus far. I mean if this is the case I forsee that when the Barbarian PrEs show up that Crit Rage will go away and be incorporated into that.

Power Surge. How long does it last? 20 Sec like the Boost which you can't use at the same time as other Boosts... or is this going to be 1 min like the Rogue "Show Time". I'm hoping the latter.

+2 Attack
+2 Damage (+4 for THF)
+3 trip
+3 sunder
+3 Stunning Blow
+3 reflex (vs "magic")
+3 Will (vs "magic")
+3 fort (vs "magic")
+3 Intim
+3 Bluff
+3 Conc
+3 Diplo
+4 Seeker (+8 for THF)
+3 Action Boosts
its an impressive list ... I'm just not sure its impressive enough. Also what's the bonus for single handed over thf? THF get additional benefit of improved Glancing Blows... what about a single weapon combatant?


Then there is the cost

Action boost 4 = 10
Crit Accuracy 4 = 10
tier 1=4
tier 1a =1
tier 2 =2
tier 2a =1
tier 3=2
tier 3a=1

31 AP and 5 Feat

HotD for Paladins is 29 AP total and no Feat Requirements and has what I'd say is more powerful effects over all. Applying Ghost Touch to all Weapons, immunity to Energy Drain and the ability to "Vorpal" undead... just seems to overpower this PrE ... and that isn't the only benefits of the PrE.


Anyway just my perspective... I may change my mind when I start playing it but it sorta feels the same way it did when i saw Deepwoods Sniper sitting next to Tempest... just not far enough

Aesop