Do any other Dwarves feel they have been cheated a little?

[Wizzly_Bear]

You should develop some comprehension skills. You'll notice I spoke about enhancements only.

and so you were. i apologize.

[Borror0]

If the enhancements don't swing it then what about the ridiculous base damage for GS Dorf Axes.

Meh. Khopesh? Rapier? They win over DA.

[Darth_Sizzle]

disclaimer - Ive Only Read The First Page

You People Should Really Research This Stuff Before You Proclaim Such Trash As Fact

-dwarves Lost 10 Hps From The Racial Toughness Change, Not 40, Not 5, Not 15, 10.

-humans Are Not As Tough As Dwarves.

-dwarves Can Get 3 More Con Than Humans, Not 1, Not 2, Not 4, 3.

-humans Do Not Get 4 Ranks Of Racial Toughness. They Get 3. Not 4, Not 2.

-the Only Other Race That Can Match The Dwarf Toughness Are Wf. I Think A Roboticish Thing Should Be At Least This Tough.

Qft

[Emili]

well, if dwarf is 149 hp over same build of other race, as long as other race got some sweet stuff, i'd be ok with that ^^

Like halfling +saves, elf with +to-hit longsword/rapier, human whatever, give drow something actually worthwhile, WF etc - if we're saying 149 hp was simply overpowering, i'd rather create a higher difference for other builds? =P I'm totally shooting by the gut here, for the record, and reserve the right to change my mind in about 3 posts.

The numbers Borrow posted the dwarf had 54% more hp then the non-dwarf so you do realize what you said would be 54% increase of say + to-hit, human whatever, like what 54% HV to skills? LOL... base DnD allows 5% differnces average because afterall is a d20.

While it's true a dwarf lost a possible top-end 10hp (and 10 in fighter/pally/barb) We can note that prior to that a dwarf may potentialy have 50% more hp then many races in a given non-melee class. what you're complaining about is you had a max 50hp top-tier above other melee and the gap is narrower now... ie.) human fighter - fighter toughness IV was 50hp while dwarf fighter was that +50hp more attainable. Among melee classes the dwarf on average was 30% more hp plus 5 or 10% higher in other areas such as saves, AC... One of the problems I see with this is while other races have their ilk, none are in any degree on par. ie.) a elf wizard is not even close to being 30% more wizard then a dwarf wizard.

ie.) elf, who's favored class is per say wizard ... the dwarf is behind in casting 90sp max'd - one or two spells, and the arcanum of an elf in no-way was 30% more sp ... let alone 50%... top off the fact that HP, Saves are just as important to any class - I can tell you right now Dwarf was an easy race to build any casting class.

Dwarven Sorc? well 2 dc (10%) behind the max of a drow or human... this only affect spells where DC really may matter, Damage spells such as Firewalls, Cone of Cold? If you take the mean of the 25% more hp plus 10% saves I'd say Dwarf is still a viable easy build in sorc... maybe if they made elven arcanum be a 50% max increase and topped off with 10% more effective spell for being an elf - then it would be the dwarven racial enhancement equals.

Among other melee classes outside the dwarf favored?

Pally? where you're down -1 mod? no biggy you more then make up in HP and saves and ac... the cha of -1 compared to 50hp and +2 saves and possible +3 dam? More then tip the scales back on pally divine favor -1 mod. No-brainer!

Ranger? no biggy again HP and saves and ac all well above the others... the Human and elves who normally are this class in DnD again are 5-10% down in saves and ac and HP. DDO enhancements exagerated those all by another 5-10% and 30% where hp is concerned. Humans extra feat from base game is overshadowed by it.

Warchanter? - again easy build in dwarf...

Barb? by far dwarven barbs are well on the upper echelon... None of those are a dwarven favored class - fighter is. Orc's and WF favored are Barb... yet i'd wager that the dwarf race settles into those just as well if not better...

The changes in toughness enhancements just made other races a tad more playable in melee classes and gave the non-melee classes a slight option in more survivability... nerfed? Dwarf is not nerfed... just others are brought closer to dwarf's survivability. Cheated the dwarf is not... it is still along with WF the toughest race.

[sephiroth1084]

I've always felt that the elf, and especially the drow, don't bring enough to the table in terms of quality enhancements for their selective roles. Elves make very good archers and/or trapsmiths via enhancements, but that's about it (maybe battlemages as well, but I've not tried one).

I think it would be a more interesting game if all the races improved upon their favored class to the same, or similar, degree that dwarves do for fighters.

[GorumT]

IMA DWARF! RAWR! Seriously, I play a dwarf in every fantasy game that offers one. I love dwarves, I love playing dwarves, I love that dwarves are so closely tied to Norse/Celtic lore, I AM DWARF! RAWR!