good use of a halfing handwrap monk

[Aerendil]

This is what happens when Turbine decides to introduce an odd mechanic. Why HW were introduced as a single item instead of being able to equip 2 sets I cannot figure out. Nor why they didn't make that changed when they allowed unarmed attacks to be used in conjunction with TWF. One solution for the GS HW would be to make them cost 50% more ingredients. Not double, since you don't have the flexibility of actually wielding 2 GS weapons, but are getting more of a benefit from the one, as you said.

That's taken directly from PnP stuff too:

"Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes."

Additionally, light weapons and "natural" weapons are always considered to be finessable in PnP rules, hence why you can use Weapon Finesse with unarmed combat.

To put into DDO, though, I'd have thought it would have been easier to treat it was TWF with offhand attacks, but the way it is implemented is technically more accurate to the PnP books than most people realize.

[Gadget2775]

That's taken directly from PnP stuff too:

"Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes."

Additionally, light weapons and "natural" weapons are always considered to be finessable in PnP rules, hence why you can use Weapon Finesse with unarmed combat.

To put into DDO, though, I'd have thought it would have been easier to treat it was TWF with offhand attacks, but the way it is implemented is technically more accurate to the PnP books than most people realize.

Believe the comment was aimed at using one HW for all unarmed strikes instead of having handwraps only apply to one weapon slot. (I.E. Slot one = Holy of Parrying, Slot two = Shocking Burst of Vertigo 6) Because one HW affects both weapon slots GS HW's would in many cases be overpowered. Not that they're more effective, but you'd only have to spend the ingredients for one handwrap to "dual wield' it...In effect granting Two Tier Three GS HWs for the price of one.

[hu-flung-pu]

using a weighted weapon, a fighter can get a stunning blow DC of 30-36 depending on enhancments and race. plenty enough to match the output of a monks stunning fist. Especially when the stunning fist requires that a melee oriented toon put high focus on wisdom to truly maximize its effectiveness. even with enhancements your looking at 14-18 base wisdom to hit 30 on most races, depending on the placement of stat boosts at lvls.

As was mentioned Stunning blow has a slower cool down then stunning fist, and if you haven't figured out how to generate Ki at those levels there's a lot left to learn on your monk.

And the Wisdom bonus offers more benefits then stunning fist, everything a monk does is WIS based. Eagle claw, unbalancing strike, quivering palm, all include your wisdom bonus, and half your monk level +10. Rolling a monk with a low wisdom is like rolling a Barbarian with a 6 CON.

Warforged 16th level monk's stunning fist:
14 base WIS
+6 WIS Item
+2 WIS enhancements
+4 level ups
+2 tome
+3 Ocean stance.
_______________
+10 modifier
+8 half-level
+10 base
_______________

27 DC stunning fist in ocean stance, and 25 in fire stance.



Warforged 16th level fighter stunning blow:

18 base STR
+6 STR item
+4 level up
+3 STR enhancements
+2 tome
______________________
+11 modifier
+10 base
+5 weighted
+4 Fighter enhancement
+3 Warforged Tactics enhancement
_________________
33 Stunning blow

And all it cost you was 22 action points to equal arguably the race with the worst monks stunning fist, with the best race for stunning blow.

Don't tell me that Stunning Blow is the same thing as Stunning Fist.

Yet again, yes the monk who has the teir 3 wind stance and who is using it has a 10% stacking attack speed boost with haste. So does the paladin and ranger who are hitting for more and critting more often for larger numbers. The monks overall attack system is ok, but there is nothing about it that cannot be replicated and done better on another class.

Paladin's Zeal is a very short boost to attack speed, and Tempest rangers are getting a nerf if I'm not mistaken when tier 2 and 3 drop, and only occurs during dual wielding. Wind stance is a constant attack speed with both melee and throwing stars. With the added benefit of +1 AC, and reflex saves.

And just so we're clear on what you're saying, it's as fast as a tempest ranger, with less penalties, with better base damage, with critical hits on demand, and "it's damage isn't that good"?

The paladin essentially is a crit monster with exaulted smites and divine sacrifices. But what about when he's not smiting and using divine sacrifice? He might as well be swinging a feather around, his lower strength hurts him because he's either sword and boarding, or two handed fighting to maximize his lower strength and divine might. A paladin won't top the boards for total damage done, but arguably for most damage done on a single hit. Which is why their special attacks are so limited. I run a high strength DPS paladin, and know the hardships they have to deal with.

Edited to fix the correct math.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Warforged 16th level monk's stunning fist:
14 base WIS
+6 WIS Item
+2 WIS enhancements
+4 level ups
+2 tome
+3 Ocean stance.
_______________
+10 modifier
+8 half-level
+10 base
+5 weighted
_______________

33 DC stunning fist in ocean stance, and 31 in fire stance.

Weighted does not affect monk's stunning fist.

As previously mentioned the DCs of a dwarven tactics speced fighter with a +5 weighted item is going to beat that of a monk, but a monk gets the faster stunning fist cooldown, as well as the good synergy between stunning fist and the Crane enhancement line to build Ki very rapidly for other things such as elemental ki attacks and the occasional Quivering Palm.

Garth

[hu-flung-pu]

Ah, good catch.

My bad.


So it's a 27 DC on the Warforged monk.

Still, the point stands, the worst stunning fist monk, rivals one of the best stunning blow fighters.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Ah, good catch.

My bad.


So it's a 27 DC on the Warforged monk.

Still, the point stands, the worst stunning fist monk, rivals one of the best stunning blow fighters.

one additional penalty that monks have vs a stunning fist person is that stunning blow attacks are always made at the highest attack modifier (i.e. at BAB 16 this would be base attack +10). Stunning Fist attacks are made at whatever modifier you're currently at (normally +0 if it's the first blow of an attack chain).

Blatantly monkist - and really should be fixed - here's looking at you Eladrin

Garth

[redoubt]

Added thought...As much as I want GS HW's; as implemented they'd cause some serious grief. One GS HW that affects both hands with no penalties? Cost to benefit (Basically two Tier 3 weapons for the price of one) and I can understand why the dev's haven't added them yet.

I disagree. I consider the in-abilty to wear two different handwraps (same as a TWF fighter with two different weapons) to be a liability.

Some think it makes greensteel handwraps better, some think it makes them worse (than other greensteel weapons). Odds are, its pretty balanced and should just be brought into the game.

[redoubt]

While your math is correct, I would say my monk crits more than any of my other toons, and can completly destroy mobs who are vulnerable to critcals better than any other of my DPS toons, without being touched. Note he only crits for around 60-65... ponder that for a while.

I am a little curious about this one. All the monk weapons crit on a 20. With improved crit you crit on 19 & 20.

We have many, many builds in this game that crit on 17 or 15 or even as far down as 13 I do believe. I cannot understand how a monk can crit as often as these other characters... unless maybe you are counting all your post-stunning blow crits???

[sephiroth1084]

Believe the comment was aimed at using one HW for all unarmed strikes instead of having handwraps only apply to one weapon slot. (I.E. Slot one = Holy of Parrying, Slot two = Shocking Burst of Vertigo 6) Because one HW affects both weapon slots GS HW's would in many cases be overpowered. Not that they're more effective, but you'd only have to spend the ingredients for one handwrap to "dual wield' it...In effect granting Two Tier Three GS HWs for the price of one.

Yup. That was my point.


As for handling monks and their ability, Turbine could have:
-simply given monks more attacks at the reduced BAB they normally would have (which would directly replicate PnP Flurry of Blows and would require little by way of alteration of the DDO coding since that is something have already in TWF)
-given monks handwraps, and allowed 2 to be equipped just like other weapons when they allowed unarmed attacks to work with TWF, if not sooner (by the way, most answers back from WotC state that unarmed strikes do not work in conjunction with TWF)
-introduce greensteel handrwraps...if balance is a concern, then they could up the cost of crafting somewhat (say, GS handwraps require a special 4th essence/focus/whatever for each of their tiers)...bigges tproblem I see with the wraps is that there is no static base damage to increase from, so they might be balanced by having no effect on your normal unarmed damage

[nbhs275]

As was mentioned Stunning blow has a slower cool down then stunning fist, and if you haven't figured out how to generate Ki at those levels there's a lot left to learn on your monk.

And the Wisdom bonus offers more benefits then stunning fist, everything a monk does is WIS based. Eagle claw, unbalancing strike, quivering palm, all include your wisdom bonus, and half your monk level +10. Rolling a monk with a low wisdom is like rolling a Barbarian with a 6 CON.

Warforged 16th level monk's stunning fist:
14 base WIS
+6 WIS Item
+2 WIS enhancements
+4 level ups
+2 tome
+3 Ocean stance.
_______________
+10 modifier
+8 half-level
+10 base
_______________

27 DC stunning fist in ocean stance, and 25 in fire stance.



Warforged 16th level fighter stunning blow:

18 base STR
+6 STR item
+4 level up
+3 STR enhancements
+2 tome
______________________
+11 modifier
+10 base
+5 weighted
+4 Fighter enhancement
+3 Warforged Tactics enhancement
_________________
33 Stunning blow

And all it cost you was 22 action points to equal arguably the race with the worst monks stunning fist, with the best race for stunning blow.

Don't tell me that Stunning Blow is the same thing as Stunning Fist.




Paladin's Zeal is a very short boost to attack speed, and Tempest rangers are getting a nerf if I'm not mistaken when tier 2 and 3 drop, and only occurs during dual wielding. Wind stance is a constant attack speed with both melee and throwing stars. With the added benefit of +1 AC, and reflex saves.

And just so we're clear on what you're saying, it's as fast as a tempest ranger, with less penalties, with better base damage, with critical hits on demand, and "it's damage isn't that good"?

The paladin essentially is a crit monster with exaulted smites and divine sacrifices. But what about when he's not smiting and using divine sacrifice? He might as well be swinging a feather around, his lower strength hurts him because he's either sword and boarding, or two handed fighting to maximize his lower strength and divine might. A paladin won't top the boards for total damage done, but arguably for most damage done on a single hit. Which is why their special attacks are so limited. I run a high strength DPS paladin, and know the hardships they have to deal with.

Edited to fix the correct math.

Zeal lasts atleast as long as haste, and can easily be sustained throughout an entire quest. Also, im not understanding the paladins "low strength" considering they have just as high a strength potential as any monk, except a monk using sun stance...and a monk using sun stance is attacking 10% slower then said paladin. The paladin is also getting atleast an additional +3 dmg/attack which is worth much more in the long run then +3 strength.

Also, even though stunning fist is faster then stunning blow to recharge, its still going to be a longer delay for that monk to kill said mob then the paladin/fighter/ranger/barbarian using stunning blow. Your hitting for 60-80ish ever swing at the same rate that other character is critting for 120-200+.

[hu-flung-pu]

Also, even though stunning fist is faster then stunning blow to recharge, its still going to be a longer delay for that monk to kill said mob then the paladin/fighter/ranger/barbarian using stunning blow. Your hitting for 60-80ish ever swing at the same rate that other character is critting for 120-200+.

Monk's aren't gimped because we're attacking faster. By the time a two hander's getting his swings out there monks have already launched 2 or 3 attacks.

Dwarven Ranger with stunning blow? Alright, dwarven war axe? Cool. Hey how about that, 1d10x3. I guess my monk is a little behind....oh wait, I forgot, fists of iron. 2d8x3 on a single critical? With out the penalty with the off hand, AND it goes off on two attacks. You're also attacking slightly slower as well. So I'll take two hits for 160 damage, versus one with 200. I'm generating similar damage along with ki, to keep the stunning fist use at about as common as I need it.

Not to mention stunning fist at a 2:1 ratio over stunning blow. First mobs down, move on to the next, stunning blow "Her ki's generatin' too fast cap'n I dunnae think she can 'andle mush morrre!" Finishing blow for one of many effects, and stand in the carnage atop a pile of bodies.

Abundant step, wholeness of body and/or meditation, rinse and repeat.

The only thing that needs to happen is to make finishers either easier to use, or improve their benefits so people actually WANT to use them not just "Hey, I got off a finisher!"

[nbhs275]

Monk's aren't gimped because we're attacking faster. By the time a two hander's getting his swings out there monks have already launched 2 or 3 attacks.

Dwarven Ranger with stunning blow? Alright, dwarven war axe? Cool. Hey how about that, 1d10x3. I guess my monk is a little behind....oh wait, I forgot, fists of iron. 2d8x3 on a single critical? With out the penalty with the off hand, AND it goes off on two attacks. You're also attacking slightly slower as well. So I'll take two hits for 160 damage, versus one with 200. I'm generating similar damage along with ki, to keep the stunning fist use at about as common as I need it.

Not to mention stunning fist at a 2:1 ratio over stunning blow. First mobs down, move on to the next, stunning blow "Her ki's generatin' too fast cap'n I dunnae think she can 'andle mush morrre!" Finishing blow for one of many effects, and stand in the carnage atop a pile of bodies.

Abundant step, wholeness of body and/or meditation, rinse and repeat.

The only thing that needs to happen is to make finishers either easier to use, or improve their benefits so people actually WANT to use them not just "Hey, I got off a finisher!"

GS dwarven axes are 2d8 19-20/x3 bud...and they are also available at level 12.

Your also not attacking at twice the speed of the ranger. Thats about what it would take for you to keep up. Considering your looking at max a crit of mid sixties to 70s....vs the dwarven rangers 150+. The ranger hits for higher damage on his normal swings also.

And the final nail in the coffin is that the only time the monk could be in any way close to comparable DPS is when using stunning fist. Which doesnt work on red names or raid bosses, the place where true DPS is needed. Hu, i don't think you have gone and played a real DPS character in a long time if you think what the monk is able to eak out currently is close to the power of the true DPS of a ranger, or barbarian, or paladin, or fighter.

OH, and back to my little show about the monk2/fighter 18 doing more DPS then the pure 20 monk. The 10% increased attack speed doesnt make up for lower numbers.

1d8+33 18-20/x2 is 37.5 damage on an average hit, and 99 average on a crit,(897 over 20)

vs the pure monks

2d10+19 19-20/x2 is 30 on average, and 72 on a crit(654 over 20)

Anyone who can do simple math can understand that there is more then a 10% difference between these two numbers(infact its more like a 27% difference) which means even the increased attack speed really isnt a factor.

Pure and simple, monk unarmed DPS is not up to par with the output of any true DPS class.

OH, and to give you a comparison to what a DPS ranger is putting out right now,

main hand alone 1d8+38 15-20/x2, 42.5 average hit, 97 average crit, 1134.5 over 20. Nearly double what the 20 monk is likely to put out.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Pure and simple, monk unarmed DPS is not up to par with the output of any true DPS class.

yup monks are gimped! totally gimped! wailing and gnashing of teeth ensue.

devs - if you're reading this - please ungimp monks - I suggest at a minimum:

• Add GS wraps, or at least transmuting (of bane)
• Make stunning fist attack at highest attack modifier (like cleave, trip, stunning blow do already)
• Make Monk's spell-like finishing moves not break CE
• Make debuffing finishing moves work on red named

The people have spoken! Monks are gimped. It's official! Now, please stop playing them immediately!

Garth

[hu-flung-pu]

GS dwarven axes are 2d8 19-20/x3 bud...and they are also available at level 12.

Your also not attacking at twice the speed of the ranger. Thats about what it would take for you to keep up. Considering your looking at max a crit of mid sixties to 70s....vs the dwarven rangers 150+. The ranger hits for higher damage on his normal swings also.

And the final nail in the coffin is that the only time the monk could be in any way close to comparable DPS is when using stunning fist. Which doesnt work on red names or raid bosses, the place where true DPS is needed. Hu, i don't think you have gone and played a real DPS character in a long time if you think what the monk is able to eak out currently is close to the power of the true DPS of a ranger, or barbarian, or paladin, or fighter.

OH, and back to my little show about the monk2/fighter 18 doing more DPS then the pure 20 monk. The 10% increased attack speed doesnt make up for lower numbers.

1d8+33 18-20/x2 is 37.5 damage on an average hit, and 99 average on a crit,(897 over 20)

vs the pure monks

2d10+19 19-20/x2 is 30 on average, and 72 on a crit(654 over 20)

Anyone who can do simple math can understand that there is more then a 10% difference between these two numbers(infact its more like a 27% difference) which means even the increased attack speed really isnt a factor.

Pure and simple, monk unarmed DPS is not up to par with the output of any true DPS class.

OH, and to give you a comparison to what a DPS ranger is putting out right now,

main hand alone 1d8+38 15-20/x2, 42.5 average hit, 97 average crit, 1134.5 over 20. Nearly double what the 20 monk is likely to put out.

Being beauracratically correct, doesn't make it correct. A critical rage 2 wielding barbarian, is not a tempest Ranger. and keen enchantments, don't stack with improved critical feats. So unless there's a recipe I don't know about that triples your critical range, I'm going have to ask you to show that to me.

And why such a low damage modifier on the monk damage in comparison to the barbarians and rangers pointing pig stickers? Unless you're not counting the full BAB, and shorting him on total STR and not giving him power attack.

You'll have to break your numbers down for me, to get the bonuses you came up with.

[Aerendil]

yup monks are gimped! totally gimped! wailing and gnashing of teeth ensue.

devs - if you're reading this - please ungimp monks - I suggest at a minimum:

• Add GS wraps, or at least transmuting (of bane)
• Make stunning fist attack at highest attack modifier (like cleave, trip, stunning blow do already)
• Make Monk's spell-like finishing moves not break CE
• Make debuffing finishing moves work on red named

The people have spoken! Monks are gimped. It's official! Now, please stop playing them immediately!

Garth

/signed, and 100% agree.
I can see the dev fear with GS wraps, but I honestly don't think it would overpower monks. And the other 3 points are completely valid.

In other news, has anyone considered the monk/fighter-kensai combo yet?
STR bonus to each fist + kensai II power surge + STR enhancements/level ups + greater weapon spec + bardsong and various other buffs could make for a rather disgusting combination.

[Gadget2775]

OH, and back to my little show about the monk2/fighter 18 doing more DPS then the pure 20 monk. The 10% increased attack speed doesnt make up for lower numbers.

1d8+33 18-20/x2 is 37.5 damage on an average hit, and 99 average on a crit,(897 over 20)

vs the pure monks

2d10+19 19-20/x2 is 30 on average, and 72 on a crit(654 over 20)

Anyone who can do simple math can understand that there is more then a 10% difference between these two numbers(infact its more like a 27% difference) which means even the increased attack speed really isnt a factor.

I gotta say your numbers look off to me.
1: Why does the Monk cap at 19 with the Fighter hitting +33? 7 stat points don't represent a 14 point jump the last time I checked. (+4 from level up, +3 from Fighter...This of course assumes the Monk isn't in Fire/Water stance. Even if the Monk is in one of those stances you aren't going to get the difference you're showing
2: TWF Monks gain an attack speed boost over a fighter TWF from the difference in animations.
3: An hasted Wind Stance Monk gains an additional 10% speed boost over a hasted Fighter.
4:10% + 10% (Pretty sure that's close to the speed boost a TWF Monk gains while unarmed) (see 2 and 3 for sources of stacking 10%) is allot closer to your stated 27%

[Balkas]

My barbarian two-hander sees crits in the 200+ range...

My ranger dual-weilding rapiers sees crits in the 70-80 range....

Guess which one actually does more DPS? (Damage per second, not damage per swing)

My S&B Paladin crits for 400, and I sure as hell know that both your barbarian and ranger do more DPS

[query]

Edit: Oh yeah my INSANE number of attacks due to monk attack AND speed abilities!

Yeah, we got to rename TWF unarmed monnks "jackhammers."


Oh, and another suggestion for that halfling HW monk:

Have a barbarian pick him up and use as a weapon. The're so hard to hit, it must be like adamantium blows to the enemies

Edit: but fear not! All this comparison has made me decide to make a WF barbarian! Maybe one day he can make YOU his chosen weapon

[nbhs275]

I gotta say your numbers look off to me.
1: Why does the Monk cap at 19 with the Fighter hitting +33? 7 stat points don't represent a 14 point jump the last time I checked. (+4 from level up, +3 from Fighter...This of course assumes the Monk isn't in Fire/Water stance. Even if the Monk is in one of those stances you aren't going to get the difference you're showing
2: TWF Monks gain an attack speed boost over a fighter TWF from the difference in animations.
3: An hasted Wind Stance Monk gains an additional 10% speed boost over a hasted Fighter.
4:10% + 10% (Pretty sure that's close to the speed boost a TWF Monk gains while unarmed) (see 2 and 3 for sources of stacking 10%) is allot closer to your stated 27%

Monk numbers where based off what the monk who is using hu-flung's concepts. If he has a 30 wisdom, and high high dex, thats taking away from strength. If hes halfing, theres a hit there. Hes using wind stance so no +3 str. The fighter is at lvl 18 with the proposed kensia enhancements, which add an additional amount to seeker, +3 to damage, and bonuses to trip/stun/ect. The attack difference between the normal twf and unarmed isnt as large as many say. Its maybe a total of 10%, still not bring the low hits up to par with the larger slower hits.

PA and CE don't work together, though it seems to always be the point of many monk beilds of having CE and the requisit intel to get it. It just adds up that the focused fighter can much simplier get high DPS then the monk because of the monk needing considerable points into dexterity, wisdom, and int if they want to play the AC role, along with a moderate commitment to cha if they plan on intimitanking. As it stands the current monk classes DPS is far sub par. And while i do like all of the bonus parts of the class(improved evasion, slowfall, AC and ki abilities) they do not overpower the other classes in any fashion that require the class to do low damage.

IF they just add 1 more component to the monks DPS from any source, be it increased base damage, widened crit range or hightened multiplier then it would make the class more in line with the other.


And to answer a prior post, my meaning by gratuitous hits, was any weapon that takes a vast number of hits to be effective, such as vorpals or disruptors, and to a less extent wounders(which really depends on a builds average dps vs. the enemies con score)

[hu-flung-pu]

Monk numbers where based off what the monk who is using hu-flung's concepts. If he has a 30 wisdom, and high high dex, thats taking away from strength. If hes halfing, theres a hit there. Hes using wind stance so no +3 str. The fighter is at lvl 18 with the proposed kensia enhancements, which add an additional amount to seeker, +3 to damage, and bonuses to trip/stun/ect. The attack difference between the normal twf and unarmed isnt as large as many say. Its maybe a total of 10%, still not bring the low hits up to par with the larger slower hits.

PA and CE don't work together, though it seems to always be the point of many monk beilds of having CE and the requisit intel to get it. It just adds up that the focused fighter can much simplier get high DPS then the monk because of the monk needing considerable points into dexterity, wisdom, and int if they want to play the AC role, along with a moderate commitment to cha if they plan on intimitanking. As it stands the current monk classes DPS is far sub par. And while i do like all of the bonus parts of the class(improved evasion, slowfall, AC and ki abilities) they do not overpower the other classes in any fashion that require the class to do low damage.

IF they just add 1 more component to the monks DPS from any source, be it increased base damage, widened crit range or hightened multiplier then it would make the class more in line with the other.


And to answer a prior post, my meaning by gratuitous hits, was any weapon that takes a vast number of hits to be effective, such as vorpals or disruptors, and to a less extent wounders(which really depends on a builds average dps vs. the enemies con score)

A character built for DPS out damaging a toon built for multipurpose use is a no brainer.

A monk built for DPS is an apples to apples comparison, not your comparison.

Combat Expertise has no bearing on damage and in fact hurts your damage by making you miss more, so throw that right out.

Intimidate is easily accomplished by splashing a single fighter or rogue level, there's even badger style to boost your intimidate skill. But again, has no bearing on DPS. So irrelevant to the conversation.

So let's look at the basics of what makes a monk a DPS machine, minimum 17 base DEX, high STR, Great WIS.

So, on a 32 point build monk we're looking at something along the lines of:

16
16
12
8
14
6

That's on a Warforged mind you, dump one level up in to DEX, three in to WIS, and take all three monk WIS enhancements, and give up nothing on my stunning fist DC calculation, and sacrificing nothing but some AP's.

So my STR modifier with a +6 STR item is +6 with full BAB of 16 AND power attack for another 5 damage bonus. Warforged power attack for another 3.

So at 16th level my damage would look like 2d8+30, with no half strength bonus for my off hand. So 10 attacks per round at 2d8+30 19-20/x2. Not including damage bonuses from my elemental strikes, and let's say 5% increase in speed over a tempest ranger.

I don't know about you, but gimped isn't exactly a word I would use here.


EDIT:

And we haven't seen what's in store for monks in the next four levels. I'm expecting grandmaster of the elemental styles, as well as the continued animal paths, then there's the 20th level capstone that gives you an unending supply of Ki.