good use of a halfing handwrap monk

[Rog]

saves and ac do nothing against the blades they hit you every time

might be the 82 ac i dont take damage like the tanks do p

[hu-flung-pu]

While your math is correct, I would say my monk crits more than any of my other toons, and can completly destroy mobs who are vulnerable to critcals better than any other of my DPS toons, without being touched. Note he only crits for around 60-65... ponder that for a while.

Shhhh!

You're giving away our secrets on auto-crit's!

[Maegin]

I think you've all hit the nail on the head. As far as im concerend, the monk is the good at what its supposed to be doing, which is balance, not in every perfect way. Its niether too good, nor too bad. Too much AC, and you sacrifice power. Too much power and you sack AC, too much in one stat, and your a one trick pony. Not too much DPS, but enough to make a difference. Rely on this too much, and you fall short somewhere else. If build well rounded, you wont suck, but you wont rock. etc. etc. etc.

Geared well, and you will perform well, as with any class (usually). Low DPS, but you hit like a friggin machinegun, but still are able to sustain all your immunities and mobility most of which is taken for granted. Cant kill the boss? thats ok, you can tank it, or atleast not git hit for personal safetys sake. Not immune to crits/stuns? you can toe to toe it with your sweet ac. Mob has too many HP? GTWF allows for vorps. No vorps? stun it, then crit all day. No WIS/stun? abundent step out and use ki for buffs. No ki? Firestance ftw. No mage for haste? Windstance ftw. Need some DR? Mountain. Tired of beholders? Ocean. No pots or UMD for wands? Wholeness. No ki, then meditate. No meditate? Run your fast arse to a shrine. etc. etc. etc.

And this is all possible, if you dont twink out, and be one with the univer- errr... just be 'centered' and balanced like the class represents.


I think its the 'personal/self-sufficient' balanced class's wet dream.
Its the powergamers worst nightmare,
IMHO, of course. I know how all the forum drama gets.

[hu-flung-pu]

I think you've all hit the nail on the head. As far as im concerend, the monk is the good at what its supposed to be doing, which is balance, not in every perfect way. Its niether too good, nor too bad. Too much AC, and you sacrifice power. Too much power and you sack AC, too much in one stat, and your a one trick pony. Not too much DPS, but enough to make a difference. Rely on this too much, and you fall short somewhere else. If build well rounded, you wont suck, but you wont rock. etc. etc. etc.

Geared well, and you will perform well, as with any class (usually). Low DPS, but you hit like a friggin machinegun, but still are able to sustain all your immunities and mobility most of which is taken for granted. Cant kill the boss? thats ok, you can tank it, or atleast not git hit for personal safetys sake. Not immune to crits/stuns? you can toe to toe it with your sweet ac. Mob has too many HP? GTWF allows for vorps. No vorps? stun it, then crit all day. No WIS/stun? abundent step out and use ki for buffs. No ki? Firestance ftw. No mage for haste? Windstance ftw. Need some DR? Mountain. Tired of beholders? Ocean. No pots or UMD for wands? Wholeness. No ki, then meditate. No meditate? Run your fast arse to a shrine. etc. etc. etc.


I think its the 'personal/self-sufficient' balanced class's wet dream.
Its the powergamers worst nightmare,
IMHO, of course. I know how all the forum drama gets.

And there you go completely spilling the secret of a good monk!

Is there nothing sacred around here?!

[Maegin]

Bah! im sorry.... ^_^

[Maegin]

And now they give us good thf capabilities and 'hooks' to generate more ki, more stat/ellemental/bane damage, more flexiblity, without too much out-of-controllness and less attack animations to not slow us down...

Why the eff is everyone complaining?

oop! srry, hu-flung.... Ive said too much.

*seppuku*

[hu-flung-pu]

Your Daimyo is pleased.

But who's going to clean up this mess?

I ain't touchin it!

[nbhs275]

While your math is correct, I would say my monk crits more than any of my other toons, and can completly destroy mobs who are vulnerable to critcals better than any other of my DPS toons, without being touched. Note he only crits for around 60-65... ponder that for a while.

now, i will give that monks because of their 2 seperate stun abilities can generate a large amount of easy crits, but so cant any other character who takes stunning blow.

I would also say that their attack speed does make them excellent when it comes to any ability that requires an excessive number of attacks to be effective. That being said, a monk can do some awesome things with a weapon like a dreamspitter(though so cant a barbarian specced for blunt).

But there needs to be a change somewhere in the monks base damage numbers to bring them inline with the other classes. Either increaseing the base dice of unarmed(simply doubling the number of dice would be an accurate correct) or giving them enhancments or class feats that add to the crit mulitplier. Heck, a very cool solution would be to apply glancing blows to unarmed fighting along with TWF benefits. Meaning either spec of monk could make good use of unarmed(either staff or twf kama) and a select few that choose to gain both trees could combine them for some raunchy unarmed combat. <Which would be smart to not would cost a character 7 feats, meaning that it would take a characters full devotion or multiclassing to achieve>

[Inspire]

now, i will give that monks because of their 2 seperate stun abilities can generate a large amount of easy crits, but so cant any other character who takes stunning blow.

Stunning Fist with a 30Wisdom, and the 5% chance from +3 Holy Weighted 5% handwraps do just fine... Stunning blow on a monk is a waste if not Dwarf/Warforged IMO.

[hu-flung-pu]

now, i will give that monks because of their 2 seperate stun abilities can generate a large amount of easy crits, but so cant any other character who takes stunning blow.

I would also say that their attack speed does make them excellent when it comes to any ability that requires an excessive number of attacks to be effective. That being said, a monk can do some awesome things with a weapon like a dreamspitter(though so cant a barbarian specced for blunt).

Stunning blow won't come close to stunning fist when it comes to Difficulty Classes unless you specifically spec for it as a Warforged or Dwarf wielding a high bonus weighted weapon.

You'll have to qualify "any ability that requires an excessive number of attacks to be effective." I'm not quite sure what you mean.

But there needs to be a change somewhere in the monks base damage numbers to bring them inline with the other classes. Either increaseing the base dice of unarmed(simply doubling the number of dice would be an accurate correct) or giving them enhancments or class feats that add to the crit mulitplier. Heck, a very cool solution would be to apply glancing blows to unarmed fighting along with TWF benefits. Meaning either spec of monk could make good use of unarmed(either staff or twf kama) and a select few that choose to gain both trees could combine them for some raunchy unarmed combat. <Which would be smart to not would cost a character 7 feats, meaning that it would take a characters full devotion or multiclassing to achieve>

By the time you hit level 8, a monks base damage is 1D10, equivalent to a bastard sword or Dwarven Waraxe. Only minus the off hand penalty to hit and damage. At 16th, you have the base damage of 2d8 The greensteel equivalent of a war axe or bastard sword. At 20th level, monks will be doing 2D10 damage, per hit. You're looking at crazy high DPS, From that base damage alone, thrown in with auto crits you're going to be one of the highest DPS machines in the game. That's why you're not going to see Green Steel Weave hand wraps that increase your damage. It's an inherent class feature for that to happen. Now if they want to include them to enchant my fists even more, that would be awesome. But not to increase my damage output.

Glancing blows with unarmed would just make it even more devastating then it already is. 10% attack speed in the master wind stance, with an attack animation speed faster then two weapon fighting. Greater two weapon fighting let's you attack at full BAB with no off hand damage, and to hit penalty. There's nothing that lags behind on the monk if he's not played to his potential.

[Lifespawn]

might be the 82 ac i dont take damage like the tanks do p

my 87 ac says the blades hit you reguardless

[Gadget2775]

But there needs to be a change somewhere in the monks base damage numbers to bring them inline with the other classes. Either increaseing the base dice of unarmed(simply doubling the number of dice would be an accurate correct) or giving them enhancments or class feats that add to the crit mulitplier. Heck, a very cool solution would be to apply glancing blows to unarmed fighting along with TWF benefits. Meaning either spec of monk could make good use of unarmed(either staff or twf kama) and a select few that choose to gain both trees could combine them for some raunchy unarmed combat. <Which would be smart to not would cost a character 7 feats, meaning that it would take a characters full devotion or multiclassing to achieve>

Humbug! Monks base damage is right where it's suppose to be. The only reason people are convinced they can't keep up with a "Real Tank" is the lack of GS Handwraps. That means we're missing certain effect combinations, not that our base damage is somehow underpowered.

Re: GS HW's...First, they won't affect the Monks base damage because the Monk IS THE WEAPON. All handwraps do is add effects...I'd strongly speculate the Devs are leery of adding GS HW's because one HW affects all unarmed strikes, rather unbalanced for a TWF spec'd Monk. (I.E. Two Tier Three GS Weapons for the price of one)

Re: Glancing Blows...Dear gods! Allowing Monks to stack Glancing Blows with TWF would be one of the worst mistakes ever...Totally unbalancing. GTW for 10 attacks, no off hand strength penalty or to-hit modifier AND glancing blows? That's just wrong. Unarmed combat is about precision, striking what you aimed for. Not wildly swinging to hit everything in sight. Unless of course you want to pick up Cleave and Great Cleave. Those are specifically "hit everything" strikes...And are balanced by not working with every attack.

If you want glancing blows with a Monk grab a Q-Staff and go for the gold.

[Leyoni]

good use of a halfing handwrap monk

As a door stop?

[Aerendil]

Glancing blows with unarmed would just make it even more devastating then it already is. 10% attack speed in the master wind stance, with an attack animation speed faster then two weapon fighting. Greater two weapon fighting let's you attack at full BAB with no off hand damage, and to hit penalty. There's nothing that lags behind on the monk if he's not played to his potential.

Not to nitpick, but I'm pretty sure the greater wind stance is 20%.
10% for lesser / 15% for standard / 20% for greater, no?

Agreed on the greensteel handwraps though. At 20th level, Monk base damage will be crazy enough as is.
Not to mention they'll be considered outsiders (can we have glowy eyes or something please, Turbine?)

[Gadget2775]

Not to nitpick, but I'm pretty sure the greater wind stance is 20%.
10% for lesser / 15% for standard / 20% for greater, no?

Believe he was referencing the portion that stacks with haste. Which is 5, 7.5 and 10%. The other portion only applies while unhasted.

Not to mention they'll be considered outsiders (can we have glowy eyes or something please, Turbine?)

Glowing eyes could be neat...Will we be banishable is what I want to know

[nbhs275]

Stunning blow won't come close to stunning fist when it comes to Difficulty Classes unless you specifically spec for it as a Warforged or Dwarf wielding a high bonus weighted weapon.

You'll have to qualify "any ability that requires an excessive number of attacks to be effective." I'm not quite sure what you mean.




By the time you hit level 8, a monks base damage is 1D10, equivalent to a bastard sword or Dwarven Waraxe. Only minus the off hand penalty to hit and damage. At 16th, you have the base damage of 2d8 The greensteel equivalent of a war axe or bastard sword. At 20th level, monks will be doing 2D10 damage, per hit. You're looking at crazy high DPS, From that base damage alone, thrown in with auto crits you're going to be one of the highest DPS machines in the game. That's why you're not going to see Green Steel Weave hand wraps that increase your damage. It's an inherent class feature for that to happen. Now if they want to include them to enchant my fists even more, that would be awesome. But not to increase my damage output.

Glancing blows with unarmed would just make it even more devastating then it already is. 10% attack speed in the master wind stance, with an attack animation speed faster then two weapon fighting. Greater two weapon fighting let's you attack at full BAB with no off hand damage, and to hit penalty. There's nothing that lags behind on the monk if he's not played to his potential.

using a weighted weapon, a fighter can get a stunning blow DC of 30-36 depending on enhancments and race. plenty enough to match the output of a monks stunning fist. Especially when the stunning fist requires that a melee oriented toon put high focus on wisdom to truly maximize its effectiveness. even with enhancements your looking at 14-18 base wisdom to hit 30 on most races, depending on the placement of stat boosts at lvls.

Yet again, yes the monk who has the teir 3 wind stance and who is using it has a 10% stacking attack speed boost with haste. So does the paladin and ranger who are hitting for more and critting more often for larger numbers. The monks overall attack system is ok, but there is nothing about it that cannot be replicated and done better on another class.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

using a weighted weapon, a fighter can get a stunning blow DC of 30-36 depending on enhancments and race. plenty enough to match the output of a monks stunning fist.

The key (ki?) thing about stunning fist is that the cooldown is significantly shorter than stunning blow.

Garth

[Emili]

Oh dear, I would never condone turning some poor soul into handwraps just because they're shorter than I... seems as cruel as Chinchilla farms...
I mean the injustice of 't all.... .... Oh, a halfling monk using handwraps? hmm, nevermind.

[Aerendil]

Believe he was referencing the portion that stacks with haste. Which is 5, 7.5 and 10%. The other portion only applies while unhasted.

Glowing eyes could be neat...Will we be banishable is what I want to know

Ahhh right. That makes sense then re: Haste.
As for the level 20 ability, technically yes, Monks would be banishable. As per the PnP rules:
Perfect Self: At 20th level, a monk becomes a magical creature. She is forevermore treated as an outsider rather than as a humanoid (or whatever the monk’s creature type was) for the purpose of spells and magical effects. Additionally, the monk gains damage reduction 10/magic, which allows her to ignore the first 10 points of damage from any attack made by a nonmagical weapon or by any natural attack made by a creature that doesn’t have similar damage reduction. Unlike other outsiders, the monk can still be brought back from the dead as if she were a member of her previous creature type.

In NWN2, there was a visual change reflected by this in which the monk's eyes glowed to show his/her outsider nature. I can't recall if anything else was noticeable, to be honest - it's been a while.
But that would be smurftastic if put into DDO, and one very good reason to go pure 20 monk build!

[sephiroth1084]

Added thought...As much as I want GS HW's; as implemented they'd cause some serious grief. One GS HW that affects both hands with no penalties? Cost to benefit (Basically two Tier 3 weapons for the price of one) and I can understand why the dev's haven't added them yet.

This is what happens when Turbine decides to introduce an odd mechanic. Why HW were introduced as a single item instead of being able to equip 2 sets I cannot figure out. Nor why they didn't make that changed when they allowed unarmed attacks to be used in conjunction with TWF. One solution for the GS HW would be to make them cost 50% more ingredients. Not double, since you don't have the flexibility of actually wielding 2 GS weapons, but are getting more of a benefit from the one, as you said.