good use of a halfing handwrap monk

[Rog]

i have been expermenting with my monk mojo here is what seems to work for me.note i only use handwraps
1. dps tank total failure.
2. as a second stream tank with insane ac (i can buff to 82) i have found that 5% weighted work best in a fast moving group. if your in solo mode which the monk are super at then maldroit of bone breaking and a bursting handwraps work best the dex dam will bring them to crit with every hit use the backstad halfing dam with crit on a burst quick kills weighted works better in a group due to speed i find i can stun every flenser in the sub before a tank can vorpal him out of five i have found 4 stunned real sweet ratio. in raids like the hound i have found the monk super speed allows them to reach the center and draw aggro before the cleric get in then droping a solid fog keeps that aggro with the ac casting the solid fog is pretty easly dont forget to turn on c.e. after casting fog making the monk more valuable then a intem tank in the hound.dont forget the parry handwraps/finesse if u find them
weakness in my monk built is still red names this type of attack is great and the entire team really is happy to be smacking on a crit hit or stunned but when the red name comes the monk falls short even in ato attack using your finsihing moves you still fall way short greater bane help if you got them but my collection falls short.
what we need is lighting 2 /min 2 greensteel handwraps this will shore up are damage and put handwrap monks on equel footing with front of the line tanks.

mojomuscle

[Gadget2775]

DPS tank a total failure? +3-5 Holy Handwraps backed by a Monks base damage at lvl 16 are awesome. Add Greater Two Weapon fighting, no Off-Hand Strength or To-Hit penalties and you have a DPS beast.

I do agree that Monks could really use GS Handwraps, but the lack of them certainly doesn't completely ruin a Monks output.

Added thought...As much as I want GS HW's; as implemented they'd cause some serious grief. One GS HW that affects both hands with no penalties? Cost to benefit (Basically two Tier 3 weapons for the price of one) and I can understand why the dev's haven't added them yet.

[Rog]

DPS tank a total failure? +3-5 Holy Handwraps backed by a Monks base damage at lvl 16 are awesome. Add Greater Two Weapon fighting, no Off-Hand Strength or To-Hit penalties and you have a DPS beast.

I do agree that Monks could really use GS Handwraps, but the lack of them certainly doesn't completely ruin a Monks output.

Added thought...As much as I want GS HW's as implemented they'd cause some serious grief. One GS HW that affects both hands with no penalties? Cost to benefit (Basically two Tier 3 weapons for the price of one) and I can understand why the dev's haven't added them yet.

if i am not seeing triple diget number on a crit then its not good dps.... at lest this is the kyber standard

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

if i am not seeing triple diget number on a crit then its not good dps.... at lest this is the kyber standard

Consider using your tier 3 ki attacks - those give 2d6 per hit and also an extra 2d6 on a crit - start with a stunning fist then spam a few of those, alternating between elements. Also, even if you're not doing great damage, the fast cooldown on stunning fist means when you're in a group you can stun and then move onto the next mob (kill count isn't everything). When soloing, stunning fist can give you enough ki to alternate between stunning and quivering palm. Consider use of cleave to grab agro early on if you don't have intimidate.

Garth

[Gadget2775]

if i am not seeing triple diget number on a crit then its not good dps.... at lest this is the kyber standard

Wow. What a limited way to look at the game...

[Rog]

Wow. What a limited way to look at the game...

not the game dps nothing limited about the game talking about comparing monk with front of the line dps not comparing uses of the monk and saying its the only way but when compared to a tank thats crits for 180 to 220 then i was saying we need shored up a bit then. if you ever run with me i complete quest with some of the stragest built party u can think of i believe one must use what they have in the party then again somtimes we fail no big deal.
mojomuscle

[Dracolich]

Well considering our crit mutiplyer is only x2 and at best a 19-20 we will never be crit beasts. How many swings does it take of that greataxe I assume to see those triple digit crit numbers? If you can stun and land 6 attacks all critting and wearing a bloodstone you can hit over 50 points of damage per hit and thats not a bursting handwrap either. Throw in a bursting handwraop of greater bane when /if I find one haha I think it will balance out. Not to mention quivering palm is a nifty ability also.

[Gadget2775]

A Monk doesn't have to triple digit crit to keep up...They get more attacks Two-Weapon Fighting with handwraps. Those extra attacks kick up their average damage a fair amount.

Take my Tempest Monk for example...His base damage with +5 HW's is 1d10 + 12...That's for both hands every single hit...Could be more if I chose to pick up power attack (+34 to-hit first shot, could afford it but I've been enjoying Stunning Blow/Fist allot) or if I'd actually made him Str based (which my new Monk is). I timed the number of animations completed in 60 seconds and this version has at least one complete animation more than a Tempest Ranger/Fighter (It's two complete extra attack animations without haste...). That's 10 extra hits...Slap a pair of Holy or Holy of Bane/Greater Bane on him, plus his Ki strikes...(2d6 +2d6 +2d6 = 6d6)

So we have 6d6 + 1d10 + 12 (This is low end damage as it doesn't include power attack or a str build) = 18-58 * 10 extra shots = 180-580 extra damage. Thats if the Monk doesn't Crit...and if you're comparing it to another Tempest Build. Facing off against a Two Handed or Sword and Board counterpart and the numbers get even higher.

Do I think the Monk is perfect? No. Do I think Monks rule the DPS world? No. Do I know for a fact that a well built Monk isn't a slacker in the DPS department? Yes.

[Solmage]

DPS means damage per second, NOT damage per swing. Whether you crit in double digits or triple has no bearing whatsoever on your DPS.

I am not aware of anyone having taken the time to fully analyze the new monk's DPS potential vs say tempest or a barb in various situations, but based on simple observation (send the monk vs sally while everyone else attacks him from behind) it would appear to be in the 'good' category.

Considering their other perks, AC, and insta kill abilities, good just so happens to be good enough.

[Gadget2775]

DPS means damage per second, NOT damage per swing.

I'm aware that it isn't base on damage per swings. The point was the Monk hits faster...If you hit faster you have more DPS. (I.E. Greatsword user hits you once for 50...Monk hits you twice in the same time frame for 35 and 24, totaling 59. Who has the higher DPS?)

Whether you crit in double digits or triple has no bearing whatsoever on your DPS.

Not true. DPS is an average value. That means you average all hits during a certain period of time (perhaps 1 minuet) and divide by the number of seconds in said period. So scoring crits in double/tripple digits certainly factors in. Of course it also matters how often you hit those numbers and what your base numbers are. Someone who's non crit number is low, but crits in tripple digits 1/3rd of the time makes up for low non-crit damage with huge regular crits.

[Thrudh]

if i am not seeing triple diget number on a crit then its not good dps.... at lest this is the kyber standard

My barbarian two-hander sees crits in the 200+ range...

My ranger dual-weilding rapiers sees crits in the 70-80 range....

Guess which one actually does more DPS? (Damage per second, not damage per swing)

[Kevlar]

I timed the number of animations completed in 60 seconds and this version has at least one complete animation more than a Tempest Ranger/Fighter (It's two complete extra attack animations without haste...). That's 10 extra hits...Slap a pair of Holy or Holy of Bane/Greater Bane on him, plus his Ki strikes...(2d6 +2d6 +2d6 = 6d6)

According to the dev's comments, for implimenting TWF for Monks with handwraps, they didn't add animations instead they added "hooks", that are animationless attacks. I've not seen documentation but the implication is two attacks per animation sequence. If you add in Wind Stance, your attack sequence accelerates 10, 15, or 20%. So there is the potential to have signicantly more attacks in a given period of time.

[Inspire]

Consider using your tier 3 ki attacks - those give 2d6 per hit and also an extra 2d6 on a crit - start with a stunning fist then spam a few of those, alternating between elements. Also, even if you're not doing great damage, the fast cooldown on stunning fist means when you're in a group you can stun and then move onto the next mob (kill count isn't everything). When soloing, stunning fist can give you enough ki to alternate between stunning and quivering palm. Consider use of cleave to grab agro early on if you don't have intimidate.

Garth

Thats what Untouchable does, although most peeps I run with carry W/P to finish the mobs I stun.

[Gadget2775]

According to the dev's comments, for implimenting TWF for Monks with handwraps, they didn't add animations instead they added "hooks", that are animationless attacks. I've not seen documentation but the implication is two attacks per animation sequence. If you add in Wind Stance, your attack sequence accelerates 10, 15, or 20%. So there is the potential to have signicantly more attacks in a given period of time.

Very correct sir...I did some baseline testing found here not to long ago. It shows a definite speed boost for Unarmed TWF'ing Monks.

[Kevlar]

I did some baseline testing

Good stuff. It'd be interesting to compare a monk (with their volume of potential hits) versus a traditional melee DPS (with their high single hit damages) versus other classes. I agree with you from what you've written. Relatively speaking, a monk is chipping away but does it so fast. With the monk's AC, saves, immunities, etc., the monk would seem to be an alternative definition of a DPS tank.

I typically run my monk (currently 12th level) with a group of friends with a diverse mix of classes and we run quests challanging to our levels. I personally am not a big kills counter, its a team effort, but others frequently comment and my monk seems to almost always lead in kills and many times doubles the next highest character's kill count. And I never use finishing moves or any other "special attacks", they seem to just slow down the attack speed.

[Rog]

Good stuff. It'd be interesting to compare a monk (with their volume of potential hits) versus a traditional melee DPS (with their high single hit damages) versus other classes. I agree with you from what you've written. Relatively speaking, a monk is chipping away but does it so fast. With the monk's AC, saves, immunities, etc., the monk would seem to be an alternative definition of a DPS tank.

I typically run my monk (currently 12th level) with a group of friends with a diverse mix of classes and we run quests challanging to our levels. I personally am not a big kills counter, its a team effort, but others frequently comment and my monk seems to almost always lead in kills and many times doubles the next highest character's kill count. And I never use finishing moves or any other "special attacks", they seem to just slow down the attack speed.

i really happy with mojo attack speed only time i really use finishing moves beside quiver palm which works very good is on red names even with the improved attack speed it seem i really cant get the damage on name like in the shroud but on the other side the blades dont faze me my lowest save is a 30 with a kardin eye and inspired hero.

[Turren]

Get House K favor and use him as a mule.

[Lifespawn]

i really happy with mojo attack speed only time i really use finishing moves beside quiver palm which works very good is on red names even with the improved attack speed it seem i really cant get the damage on name like in the shroud but on the other side the blades dont faze me my lowest save is a 30 with a kardin eye and inspired hero.

saves and ac do nothing against the blades they hit you every time

[nbhs275]

Wow. What a limited way to look at the game...

Simply put, the DPS output of unarmed is FAR FAR FAR behind the averages of all other forms except defensive S&B. TWF and THF on any other melee specced character will far exceed. Do you know why? Because of the composite deficit of both low crit range, and mulitplier. Look at it this way.

A first level monk has an unarmed attack that does 1d8 20/x2......the level one dwarf fighter/barbarian/ranger/paladin has a dwarven axe that does 1d10 20/x3. At level 16 that same monk is doing 2d8 19-20/x2 unarmed...That same fighter/barbarian/ranger/paladin is doing 2d8 19-20/x3. Right there the monk is far behind. Then add in the fact that all 4 of those classes have some ability to add damage to, or somehow enhance the output of that base weapon that is already far ahead.

Fighters get added str(+3, the same as a monks full sun stance gets...though the stance has a wisdom penelty attached to it), +4 damage from feats, +2 attack from feats, and +4 damage from racial and class enhancments.

Barbarians get up to +10 strength from rage, increased crit range from enhancements, and additional damage from racial enhancments.

Rangers get +2 str and +2 damage, racial enemies which can be as much as +12 damage, and a 10% attack speed increase.

Paladins get +3 damage from spells, +2-8 from divine might, +2 racial damage, and smites that enhances all aspects of the weapon for a handful off attacks per rest.

The monks unarmed damage, is pitiful. So much so, that when kensia is released, a 18 fighter/2 monk will be able to do MORE unarmed damage then a level 20 monk. 1d8+8 18-20/x2 vs the monks 2d10 19-20/x2

[Inspire]

Simply put, the DPS output of unarmed is FAR FAR FAR behind the averages of all other forms except defensive S&B. TWF and THF on any other melee specced character will far exceed. Do you know why? Because of the composite deficit of both low crit range, and mulitplier. Look at it this way.

A first level monk has an unarmed attack that does 1d8 20/x2......the level one dwarf fighter/barbarian/ranger/paladin has a dwarven axe that does 1d10 20/x3. At level 16 that same monk is doing 2d8 19-20/x2 unarmed...That same fighter/barbarian/ranger/paladin is doing 2d8 19-20/x3. Right there the monk is far behind. Then add in the fact that all 4 of those classes have some ability to add damage to, or somehow enhance the output of that base weapon that is already far ahead.

Fighters get added str(+3, the same as a monks full sun stance gets...though the stance has a wisdom penelty attached to it), +4 damage from feats, +2 attack from feats, and +4 damage from racial and class enhancments.

Barbarians get up to +10 strength from rage, increased crit range from enhancements, and additional damage from racial enhancments.

Rangers get +2 str and +2 damage, racial enemies which can be as much as +12 damage, and a 10% attack speed increase.

Paladins get +3 damage from spells, +2-8 from divine might, +2 racial damage, and smites that enhances all aspects of the weapon for a handful off attacks per rest.

The monks unarmed damage, is pitiful. So much so, that when kensia is released, a 18 fighter/2 monk will be able to do MORE unarmed damage then a level 20 monk. 1d8+8 18-20/x2 vs the monks 2d10 19-20/x2

While your math is correct, I would say my monk crits more than any of my other toons, and can completly destroy mobs who are vulnerable to critcals better than any other of my DPS toons, without being touched. Note he only crits for around 60-65... ponder that for a while.