Ding! Hireling has joined your party

[Ghoste]

Was putting together a pug for Sorjek the other night. The LFM said that we would not be waiting for a cleric, and I reminded party members to make sure they were able to cover their own healing if need be.

Suddenly, ding, a cleric joins the party. I think, well that was handy. That should help those who would have just been wand whipping themselves.

...wait a minute...

...how did that cleric just join the party? I had the star and didn't see any join request...

...Oh, it's a hireling!

...wait a minute...

If I'm putting a PuG together in the future, and am trying to save a spot, or two spots, or even three spots for friends or certain classes, the other people in the party can just bypass that choice on my part by just stepping into the quest and summoning their hirelings.

Trying to put together a group for a tough quest with your guildies and you guys discuss it and decide to pug out the remaining slots? You guys agree no hirelings because the quest is too complex to leave up to AI?

Well too bad! Joe pugger can now fill a slot in your party with a cleric that will only heal him because he looked at his build, realized he sucks at self healing, but really wanted to do the quest you posted for anyways. He's in the quest, so you can't boot him from the party and there's no option to boot hirelings. You're now stuck with Joe Pugger and his dim witted and exclussive cleric.

[Nevthial]

Ouch !! Would have been neat if it was intended on your part. Not so much if "forced" upon you. Sorry Ghoste, hope the run went smoothly anyways !

[Verlock]

Was putting together a pug for Sorjek the other night. The LFM said that we would not be waiting for a cleric, and I reminded party members to make sure they were able to cover their own healing if need be.

Suddenly, ding, a cleric joins the party. I think, well that was handy. That should help those who would have just been wand whipping themselves.

...wait a minute...

...how did that cleric just join the party? I had the star and didn't see any join request...

...Oh, it's a hireling!

...wait a minute...

If I'm putting a PuG together in the future, and am trying to save a spot, or two spots, or even three spots for friends or certain classes, the other people in the party can just bypass that choice on my part by just stepping into the quest and summoning their hirelings.

Trying to put together a group for a tough quest with your guildies and you guys discuss it and decide to pug out the remaining slots? You guys agree no hirelings because the quest is too complex to leave up to AI?

Well too bad! Joe pugger can now fill a slot in your party with a cleric that will only heal him because he looked at his build, realized he sucks at self healing, but really wanted to do the quest you posted for anyways. He's in the quest, so you can't boot him from the party and there's no option to boot hirelings. You're now stuck with Joe Pugger and his dim witted and exclussive cleric.

sorry but thats kind of cool can't wait too play with them comp still broke but i should be on tonight

[Vardak]

Was putting together a pug for Sorjek the other night. The LFM said that we would not be waiting for a cleric, and I reminded party members to make sure they were able to cover their own healing if need be.

Suddenly, ding, a cleric joins the party. I think, well that was handy. That should help those who would have just been wand whipping themselves.

...wait a minute...

...how did that cleric just join the party? I had the star and didn't see any join request...

...Oh, it's a hireling!

...wait a minute...

If I'm putting a PuG together in the future, and am trying to save a spot, or two spots, or even three spots for friends or certain classes, the other people in the party can just bypass that choice on my part by just stepping into the quest and summoning their hirelings.

Trying to put together a group for a tough quest with your guildies and you guys discuss it and decide to pug out the remaining slots? You guys agree no hirelings because the quest is too complex to leave up to AI?

Well too bad! Joe pugger can now fill a slot in your party with a cleric that will only heal him because he looked at his build, realized he sucks at self healing, but really wanted to do the quest you posted for anyways. He's in the quest, so you can't boot him from the party and there's no option to boot hirelings. You're now stuck with Joe Pugger and his dim witted and exclussive cleric.

Very uncool certainly. Of course you do have the option of leaving the instance and reforming. On the + side you did get an early warning...

[Oblongmana]

Simply tell him that you're actually wanting to put someone else in that slot and let him fill in the blanks. If he's not happy with that, leave and reform.

[Ringos]

Hmmm...never thought about that possibility. Good heads-up.

[sirgog]

That's a funny way for hirelings to work, although I can't see any other way they could be done.

[Memnir]

For this reason, and a few others, I foresee a lot of "No Hirelings" LFMs to be popping up.

And I think that what the contract-holder did was absurdly rude; which if it happened in my party he'd be blacklisted right away. And I'm not one who blacklists folks lightly (I think I have three total since the game went live). I can see it maybe being okay if he'd asked first and gotten the okay. But, to have filled a spot in a group that they were not leading is just boneheaded.

[Stormanne]

Yet another thing that should be worked out before the hirelings go live. If you have a hireling contract in your pack and you are not the leader, if you go to activate the hireling it should give the party leader the option to nix the activation. And I agree, it was rude of the person to pop the hireling without giving a heads-up first.

[arminius]

and I reminded party members to make sure they were able to cover their own healing if need be.

Before I'd leap to conclusions about the guy's rudeness, I'd reread that sentence. You told the party to cover their own healing. So the guy bought a cleric.

Poor judgment. But good initiative! The moral of the story is that there are sometimes reasons people do things that have nothing to do with either stupidity or malevolence. Strange to consider, I know.

It is interesting that the party leader's wishes can be contradicted so easily. I bet there will be a block that the party leader can check off soon.

_

[Dozen_Black_Roses]

Yes I foresee this being a big problem. Was in a lowbie pug....caster joined the group...then all of a sudden a cleric joins the group. I didnt have the star so didnt think anything of it, except it had this weird symbol next to its name. Which we came to determine meant it was a hireling. Said pugger almost dies on way to quest, its obvious hireling isnt doing that good a job. Mind you the path was clear, not sure where he went to be almost killed. Inside quest...ww3....said pugger dies to respawn of oozes, and aggroing everything in sight. What does he do? Releases and comes back in with a slightly higher level cleric hireling. Dies even quicker this time. Did he once ask us if it was ok to have a hireling? No. By the second time, I was asking some ppl I know to see if they could join us so wed have more DPS. My opinion is that if they dont have the star, a group member should not be able to have a hireling join without approval of the group leader.

[Inspire]

Cant the person who summons the Hireling also remove him/her from the group whenever they so choose? If the party leader asks them to remove the Hireling it should just be that easy.

Although I group with alot of understanding people

[Inspire]

But that's just it, yes you can ask the person, buy why should the party leader have to? It's their party, they're not asking for a hireling....why all of a sudden is a party leader's powers usurped by the ability of group members to fill the rest of the group? What if the leader feels a tank would be more helpful to the party, but instead the group member brings a cleric, or vice versa?

Definitely think there should be some type of option menu when forming a group...like allow hirelings, or dont allow hirelings.

We are in agreement on both points.

Edit; Ninja!

[Dozen_Black_Roses]

But that's just it, yes you can ask the person, buy why should the party leader have to? It's their party, they're not asking for a hireling....why all of a sudden is a party leader's powers usurped by the ability of group members to fill the rest of the group? What if the leader feels a tank would be more helpful to the party, but instead the group member brings a cleric, or vice versa?

Definitely think there should be some type of option menu when forming a group...like allow hirelings, or dont allow hirelings.

[TreknaQudane]

But that's just it, yes you can ask the person, buy why should the party leader have to? It's their party, they're not asking for a hireling....why all of a sudden is a party leader's powers usurped by the ability of group members to fill the rest of the group? What if the leader feels a tank would be more helpful to the party, but instead the group member brings a cleric, or vice versa?

Definitely think there should be some type of option menu when forming a group...like allow hirelings, or dont allow hirelings.

and what if people start spamming the party leader by trying to summon hirelings?

It's easier to just ask the person 1) to not bring a hireling or 2) to unsummon it

[sirgog]

Suggested fix to this:

Have a setting ,activated in the same way as the 'raid/party' setting, where the group leader can disable inviting Hirelings.

[Cendaer]

Due to the time limits on hireling contracts, the only "fair" way to handle this is for the party leader to specify in the LFM that hirelings are not welcome.

That way people won't think they are allowed, then buy a contract only to have it time-out and evaporate because the leader decides they're not allowed after they've already purchased the contract. If, after the party enters the dungeon, the leader decides to announce that no hirelings are to be used, then that's also not fair to the person who purchased the hireling contract which is rapidly going to waste.

If all you have is a toggle setting that is not plainly visible to those who want to join your group via the social panel, there will surely be people who will be wasting coins on contracts they'll never use, because they'll be finding out that their hirelings are not welcome only AFTER they've joined the group, or worse yet, after they've already entered the dungeon.

If you want to be a group leader, then be an actual LEADER, and state what your desires and preferences are beforehand, rather than being nothing more than a reactionary figurehead.

[BurningDownTheHouse]

Due to the time limits on hireling contracts, the only "fair" way to handle this is for the party leader to specify in the LFM that hirelings are not welcome.

That way people won't think they are allowed, then buy a contract only to have it time-out and evaporate because the leader decides they're not allowed after they've already purchased the contract. If, after the party enters the dungeon, the leader decides to announce that no hirelings are to be used, then that's also not fair to the person who purchased the hireling contract which is rapidly going to waste.

If all you have is a toggle setting that is not plainly visible to those who want to join your group via the social panel, there will surely be people who will be wasting coins on contracts they'll never use, because they'll be finding out that their hirelings are not welcome only AFTER they've joined the group, or worse yet, after they've already entered the dungeon.

If you want to be a group leader, then be an actual LEADER, and state what your desires and preferences are beforehand, rather than being nothing more than a reactionary figurehead.

A smart player will ask before he buys the contract...

[Dozen_Black_Roses]

and what if people start spamming the party leader by trying to summon hirelings?

It's easier to just ask the person 1) to not bring a hireling or 2) to unsummon it

I dont think sending a tell asking if a person can bring a hireling is spamming the party leader. You say it's easier to ask the person, that is probably the case 90% of the time, but the other 10% when people dont listen or are not the brightest apples in the bunch, or just pains in the rears...well then this is where it's going to be a problem, and why I think there should be some type of options setting. This could be as simple as the right click we have now to convert a party to a raid group...allow/disallow hirelings.

I saw this first hand yesterday in a lowbie party, person did not ask at all if we wanted a hireling, they just did it...not only once but twice. If you're experience with hirelings has been running with people you know, then Im sure there was some type of communication about getting one. The problem will lie with people who are not your friends/guildmates and do not communicate as well either by choice, lack of common sense, some type of communication deficit, or on purpose.

[sirgog]

Due to the time limits on hireling contracts, the only "fair" way to handle this is for the party leader to specify in the LFM that hirelings are not welcome.

That way people won't think they are allowed, then buy a contract only to have it time-out and evaporate because the leader decides they're not allowed after they've already purchased the contract. If, after the party enters the dungeon, the leader decides to announce that no hirelings are to be used, then that's also not fair to the person who purchased the hireling contract which is rapidly going to waste.

If all you have is a toggle setting that is not plainly visible to those who want to join your group via the social panel, there will surely be people who will be wasting coins on contracts they'll never use, because they'll be finding out that their hirelings are not welcome only AFTER they've joined the group, or worse yet, after they've already entered the dungeon.

If you want to be a group leader, then be an actual LEADER, and state what your desires and preferences are beforehand, rather than being nothing more than a reactionary figurehead.

Contracts are cheap enough (less than the price of 50 Heal scrolls) that wasting one due to miscommunication is no big deal. IMO it's best to assume Hirelings are welcome in easy quests and not welcome in endgame quests.

That said, I'd like to see the time contracts last while not being used increase.