Battlewizard: 2 monk or 2 rogue?

[Anthios888]

I'm interested in some thoughts about a multiclass battlewizard. This is something I want to spend some time thinking about before I roll it up, in order to make it work. I have wanted one for a while now, but the toughness changes convinced me that it is time to live my dream. I am considering either 2 levels of rogue for evasion and UMD or 2 levels of monk for evasion and extra HP.

I am currently planning on a WF strength-based two-weapon fighting wizard with 13 wizard, 2 monk, and 1 fighter. I know that rogue levels would potentially give me access to trapsmithing and UMD, but I know that I will struggle with skill points, and I would hate to neglect skill points into balance, tumble, and jump.

I will post my build later, but I'm currently looking at over 400 HP with quickened reconstructs. Due to wizards' poor BAB, I can only get up to improved two weapon fighting, but that is fine with me.

Rogue:
Pros:
evasion
Trapsmithing synergizes with my int and dex
UMD
Sneak attacks

Monk:
evasion
2 more toughness feats, and way of the patient tortoise (this is how I get to the 400+ hp number)
wisdom bonus to AC (however, even with this, my AC numbers will be quite bad)

Any thing I'm overlooking? Which gets better saves? Will saves are definitely an issue. I think I am going with 6 wisdom and charisma, unless I really feel like upping wisdom to 10 if I decide I want to try for AC in addition to my other goals.
Is UMD even worth it with how bad my CHA is at this point?

Interested in any thoughts people have on this topic. If both seem like decent options, my friend and I may make one of each.

To the math geeks: Is a Deathnip and offhand greensteel heavy or light pick (earthx3 might be a good option) the best DPS choice for a wizard with 30 raged strength? Or am I better with two greensteels?

[Goldeneye]

The Rogue levels would make your character a utility toon - High INT means enough skill points to be a full-functioning rogue for your party (therefor free-ing up a party slot in quests that need rogues)

Monk would be more survival based - however moderate dex/no wis your AC wouldn't be great, and you might be spreading yourself very thin. However, the 2 feats and other monk bonuses are always nice

Maybe consider Sorc/Pally WF - high CHA = plenty spell points, and good strength goes well with CHA for a pally. (and you could always do 2 more rogue for UMD, and evasion)

I wish you good luck in your build

[The_Phenx]

Monk for karate so you can run around and look like Raiden throwing lightning.

[jscott457]

I tried something similar. I wanted high AC as well though. Warforged monk is hard with low wis, but warforged is great for reconstruction. I finally decided that with the extra monk feats I could free up 3 feats to take healing dragonmarks. Halfing works much better in terms of AC. Instead of strength, I went dex based with weapon finesse. Although only level 6, this character just rocks so far. I just wish I had access to a 32 point build

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.96
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 16 Lawful Good Halfling Female
(2 Monk \ 14 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 131
Spell Points: 928 
BAB: 8\8\13
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 15
Will: 17

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Stats          Modified Stats
Abilities        (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength              9                    10
Dexterity            17                    20
Constitution         11                    12
Intelligence         15                    22
Wisdom               14                    15
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
Balance               8                    24
Bluff                -1                    -1
Concentration         5                    21
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                  3.5                   8.5
Hide                  8                    12
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  4                     8
Listen                2                     4
Move Silently         8                    26
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                3                     6
Search                3                     6
Spot                  2                     2
Swim                  0                     0
Tumble                n/a                   5.5
Use Magic Device     -0.5                  -0.5

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell
Enhancement: Halfling Luck I (Fortitude)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck I (Reflex)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck I (Will)
Enhancement: Disciple of Breezes
Enhancement: Disciple of Puddles
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Healing
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Weapon Finesse
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose I


Level 4 (Wizard)


Level 5 (Wizard)


Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Healing
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark II
Enhancement: Halfling Luck II (Fortitude)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck II (Reflex)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck II (Will)
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I


Level 7 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell


Level 8 (Wizard)


Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Healing


Level 10 (Wizard)


Level 11 (Wizard)


Level 12 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Wizard)


Level 14 (Wizard)


Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 16 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark III
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark IV
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Heightening I
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation II
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation III
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar III
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar IV
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence III

JS

[Noctus]

I'm interested in some thoughts about a multiclass battlewizard. This is something I want to spend some time thinking about before I roll it up, in order to make it work. I have wanted one for a while now, but the toughness changes convinced me that it is time to live my dream. I am considering either 2 levels of rogue for evasion and UMD or 2 levels of monk for evasion and extra HP.

I am currently planning on a WF strength-based two-weapon fighting wizard with 13 wizard, 2 monk, and 1 fighter. I know that rogue levels would potentially give me access to trapsmithing and UMD, but I know that I will struggle with skill points, and I would hate to neglect skill points into balance, tumble, and jump. Tumble yields no additional effect afther the 1st skillpoint to unlock it. You will be the best jumper around anyways, as you have a +30 jump spell in a otherwise not used 1st level spellslot. And jump is capped.

I will post my build later, but I'm currently looking at over 400 HP with quickened reconstructs. Due to wizards' poor BAB, I can only get up to improved two weapon fighting, but that is fine with me.

Rogue:
Pros:
evasion
Trapsmithing synergizes with my int and dex
UMD
Sneak attacks

Monk:
evasion
2 more toughness feats, and way of the patient tortoise (this is how I get to the 400+ hp number)
wisdom bonus to AC (however, even with this, my AC numbers will be quite bad) Forget about AC on such a buld. Go for Stoneskin+Displacemnt as your substitute.


Any thing I'm overlooking? Which gets better saves? Will saves are definitely an issue. The monk has ceteris paribus +3 to fort and +3 to will saves, compared with the rogue splash.I think I am going with 6 wisdom and charisma, unless I really feel like upping wisdom to 10 if I decide I want to try for AC in addition to my other goals.
Is UMD even worth it with how bad my CHA is at this point? You will never be great in it, and you already can use half the relevant wands others take UMD for. And skill points are short. It´s not a must-have skill in such a build.

Interested in any thoughts people have on this topic. If both seem like decent options, my friend and I may make one of each.
Having effectively full trapsmithing capabilities, at the cost of "2x thoughness feat" is imho a really good deal, when comparing the two options. rest are minor differences.

To the math geeks: Is a Deathnip and offhand greensteel heavy or light pick (earthx3 might be a good option) the best DPS choice for a wizard with 30 raged strength? Or am I better with two greensteels?

Comments in red.

[sirgog]

On Deathnip vs. Greensteel:


For general use, 2x Mineral 2 with a Bloodstone beats Mineral 2 mainhand, Deathnip off.
And Mineral 2 main, Deathnip off beats 2x Mineral 2, no bloodstone.

[Return_To_Forever]

I'm goin monk on mine, cause I will have evasion and reco with quicken, a boost to saves, and almost 40 hps ta boot!

[Vyctor]

Go monk, but don't use the feats for toughness, use them for Dodge/Mobility, because you'll want spring attack on a build like this, trust me...I have one...

[Noctus]

Go monk, but don't use the feats for toughness, use them for Dodge/Mobility, because you'll want spring attack on a build like this, trust me...I have one...

Even in the best of conditions, spending 3 feats for a +4 to hit is a mediocre deal. Not really good, not really bad.
In most fights you are not chasing monsters all over the place, so then they are effectively dead feats.

And they dont effect the single biggest problem with running monsters, its not the to-hit, but the fact that the swing is plainly not calculated. "server said to client: neener, neener, monster moved away, out of your reach, just before the hit could connect with it´s hit-box." so no dice is ever thrown.

[Return_To_Forever]

So on the twf/ ac thing, I did alot of thinkin last night, which as you know for me is a miracle, and wanted to look at the ac and ap point distros for a twf build. It looks like with a full ac Dtouched docent you could hit the 40s.
12 wf
7 dex
3 wis start at 7+1monk enh+2tome+6item
7 Dtouched docent
5 prot
3 dodge
2 chaos gaurds
4 shield spell.
3 bark
1 ritual
-----------
47 (-7 for beholder ac)

You could bump that with the an insight/dex/ or wis bonus from a shroud wep too.

this is actually pretty decent, tbh most str rangers are right in this area and doin just fine, they also have around 400 hps so they are a good comparison for this type of build.

but anyways
distro could go a few ways min str is goin to be 15/w 2 ftr levs and 16 w/1- with a +2 tome you can hit 28, which is fine for a to-hit stat, specially with your buffs.
For con 16 is fine, would be awesome to start with a 18, but oh well, 16 will be good enough.
Dex, I would go 16+2+6=24 for ac and ITWF obv.
With Int you can go as low as 13 and still hit 24 with a +2 tome.

thats wat I would do anyways, less I got something mixed up somewhere. I decided not to go twf on mine, and dumped the ac thing, because all my mellee are evasion twf, and I wanted a fun axe guy.

[Varr]

18/2 Wizard/rogue..........and not even close. It helps alot that rogues are cool and monks drool.........but even past that.............who wants to be wise when you can firewall stuff. Pretty is always better than wise.

[MondoGrunday]

i built a wf wizzy rogue. i love him. great heals, with 2 rogue levels i open locks , high tumble, spot and balance. i basically go for the hold of some kind then sneak attack like mad. I went max int, with high dex and then cha (for umd primarily.) i found the build was struggling at lower levels but at 12 now, is coming into his own. very versitile. due to lack of 2 levels of wizzy, i'm taking all the spell pen feats to offset. I hope to still hit pk at higher levels. i took all enhancements in the repair/force line to increase my repairs and force damage spells. fun build. I'm sure either monk or rogue adds a little flavour to the plain old pure wiz. what else is there to do with no new toons .....

[MichaelakaEcho]

[QUOTE=jscott457;1935141]I tried something similar. I wanted high AC as well though. Warforged monk is hard with low wis, but warforged is great for reconstruction. I finally decided that with the extra monk feats I could free up 3 feats to take healing dragonmarks. Halfing works much better in terms of AC. Instead of strength, I went dex based with weapon finesse. Although only level 6, this character just rocks so far. I just wish I had access to a 32 point build




Level 16 Lawful Good Halfling Female
(2 Monk \ 14 Wizard)
Hit Points: 131
Spell Points: 928
BAB: 8\8\13
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 15
Will: 17

Umm....131 hit points... Have you played any quests over lvl 10? Honestly, what are you thinking?

[jscott457]

[QUOTE=MichaelakaEcho;1947598
Umm....131 hit points... Have you played any quests over lvl 10? Honestly, what are you thinking?[/QUOTE]

The build doesn't have any equipment. Add a minos helm, a +Con item, greater false life to the HP count.

Also, the build has toughness, but the planner doesn't support racial toughness enhancements yet.

All told, the build will be in the low 200s for HP. If you have access to 32pt builds, add +4 to con to boost it up further.

no need to be inflamatory although a little more attention to detail would be nice...

js