Is racial toughness broken?

[Elaril]

Just wondering if you should be able to take the racial toughnes enhancements when your only toughnes feat is through Minos Legens. A quick forum search (nothing too in depth or time consuming) and a similarly quick perusal of the mod 8 known isues turned nothing up. Is this working as intended?

[Thoon]

Just wondering if you should be able to take the racial toughnes enhancements when your only toughnes feat is through Minos Legens. A quick forum search (nothing too in depth or time consuming) and a similarly quick perusal of the mod 8 known isues turned nothing up. Is this working as intended?

Racial toughness is fine. It's Minos Legens that has a problem. We know about it, and you can expect the 'Toughness' feat provided by Minos Legens to be changed in such a way that it no longer allows you to take enhancements that require that feat in a future release.

[sirgog]

(edit - got ninja'ed by Thoon, and what I had to say is no longer relevant)

Just wondering if you should be able to take the racial toughnes enhancements when your only toughnes feat is through Minos Legens. A quick forum search (nothing too in depth or time consuming) and a similarly quick perusal of the mod 8 known isues turned nothing up. Is this working as intended?

Think it isn't intended, but as the Devs haven't ever fixed it & it's been spoken about on the boards for months, maybe it is.

If you do 'sneak' into Racial Toughness this way, be careful never to get Minos Legens broken (from, say, 15 deaths between repairs, or getting friendly with a rust monster). I believe that causes some problems.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Racial toughness is fine. It's Minos Legens that has a problem. We know about it, and you can expect the 'Toughness' feat provided by Minos Legens to be changed in such a way that it no longer allows you to take enhancements that require that feat in a future release.

thanks Thoon, that kind of clarificaiton is both helpful and refreshing

[cdbd3rd]

What about the enhancements that are already taken via this method? Allowed to keep functionally post-fix, or will they be removed back to points?


(Don't even own a ML, so just a rhetorical question...)

[Nevthial]

What about the enhancements that are already taken via this method? Allowed to keep functionally post-fix, or will they be removed back to points?


(Don't even own a ML, so just a rhetorical question...)

I've seen to many friend's characters broken beyond repair for similar reasons in the past to risk it myself.... Literally broken and had to be deleted. As in a GM says: "Sorry nothing can be done"

[Tin_Dragon]

thanks Thoon, that kind of clarificaiton is both helpful and refreshing

Agreed, More More Please!!

[Ganidel]

All I have to Say it LOL, all you toughness ppl are just mad others can get higher hp, and your not special anymore.

See it left and right with anyone that has a toughness feat, cant you share lol?.


Yea they plan to fix it but there realy only fixing it because all the thoughness ppl are crying.

[Nevthial]

All I have to Say it LOL, all you toughness ppl are just mad others can get higher hp, and your not special anymore.

See it left and right with anyone that has a toughness feat, cant you share lol?.


Yea they plan to fix it but there realy only fixing it because all the thoughness ppl are crying.

I don't understand, anyone can take Toughness as a feat. Maybe I'm missing something.....

[Ganidel]

I don't understand, anyone can take Toughness as a feat. Maybe I'm missing something.....

May want to read the whole thread before posting.

This is about the Minos Legends Helm.

[Nevthial]

Might want to read the whole thread before posting.

This is about the Minos Legends Helm.

Yes.... It's about Minos Legens......As was my original post. I merely asking for clarity on your first post in this thread. It doesn't make sense as it is written......

[Lorien_the_First_One]

All I have to Say it LOL, all you toughness ppl are just mad others can get higher hp, and your not special anymore.

See it left and right with anyone that has a toughness feat, cant you share lol?.


Yea they plan to fix it but there realy only fixing it because all the thoughness ppl are crying.

May want to read the whole thread before posting.

This is about the Minos Legends Helm.

Its about it not making sense. No where else in this game does a worn item act as a prereq. It's a bug, pure an simple. I'm not sure what your whining above is about... Did you abuse this bug?

And its not like anyone feels "special" for taking the toughness feat, I'd suspect 75%+ of the chars out there take it, maybe more now that the enhancement lines were expanded.

[Eladrin]

What about the enhancements that are already taken via this method? Allowed to keep functionally post-fix, or will they be removed back to points?

It'll probably clear your enhancements when you log in with the "illegal" build.

Probably.

Since it's an unusual bug, I can't say for certain what's going to happen.

[Kiranselie]

Shouldnt you leave it as is, since per actual DnD, if you have something that emulates a feat, you can use that for the purposes of another feat or further class features. Just my two cents, but honestly if it aint broke, dont fix it.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Shouldnt you leave it as is, since per actual DnD, if you have something that emulates a feat, you can use that for the purposes of another feat or further class features. Just my two cents, but honestly if it aint broke, dont fix it.

Except in DDO if you remove the helm you still get use of the enhancements. That's why they won't let you use dex boots to qualify for a dex feat. Either they have to make all the feats and enhancements much smarter so they "turn off" when you remove the temporary enhancements that qualified you or they need to be consistant and, as has been indicated here they will, change this psudeo feat so that like every other one in the game it doesn't act as a prereq.

[Kiranselie]

As it stands, everything is working as should per the 3.5 rules set. Stat items never give you access to things that have a minimum stat requirement, and items that grant you the effects of a feat can be used as a prereq for other feats/features. If they want to change it to where when you take the helm off, you lose the enhancement hp's as well, then that follows 3.5 rules. Otherwise, I dont see the need to devote any time working on it. There are far other pressing issues at hand.

[Solmage]

It'll probably clear your enhancements when you log in with the "illegal" build.

Probably.

Since it's an unusual bug, I can't say for certain what's going to happen.

I don't suppose you guys could simply code the enhancements to stop working (thus remove the extra hps) if toughness is no longer present (helmet removed), and simply allow toughness from minos to continue working as it currently is?

[ThrasherGT]

It'll probably clear your enhancements when you log in with the "illegal" build.

Probably.

Since it's an unusual bug, I can't say for certain what's going to happen.

Just please make sure that those who have both will NOT be affected when You make this change, i.e. those who have the helm and the feat.

[bobbryan2]

I don't suppose you guys could simply code the enhancements to stop working (thus remove the extra hps) if toughness is no longer present (helmet removed), and simply allow toughness from minos to continue working as it currently is?

While that would be a big big fix... it's what they should do in a perfect world.

It would go a long way towards making dex 6 apply to TWF feats... but then go away if the item is removed. That would help fix a lot of things as well.

[WestiesMA]

Racial toughness is fine. It's Minos Legens that has a problem. We know about it, and you can expect the 'Toughness' feat provided by Minos Legens to be changed in such a way that it no longer allows you to take enhancements that require that feat in a future release.

If it's granting you the feat, why shouldn't you get the benefit of the extra HP's while the helm is equipped? If the helm becomes unequipped, then you have x amount of wasted enhancements.

Makes me want to craft the Minos Legens replacement really bad now...