Thoughts on Wounding/ Puncturing

[redoubt]

I have only one W/P weapon and it is a longbow... So the crit range is not that great.

My ranger has a pair of puncturing rapiers.

My barb has a couple wounding swords for when we need to do that.

None of these setups is game breaking. I also think that having weapons like I list here is far more common than the folks with pairs of W/Ps.

That Turbine adjusts mobs to account for the 0.1% of players with these weapons is the problem.

Solution: Leave the weapons alone. Balance the game for the average player and not the fraction of a percentage who speak the most on these forums and have the absolute best gear in the game.

Thanks!

[Gennerik]

I find it funny that any complaint on Wounding of Puncturing always boils down to the Kill Count.

To make this clear, I don't have a Wounding of Puncturing. I do have a Two Weapon Fighting Ranger that has a Wounding Shortsword and a Puncturing Rapier, so I guess that's close enough to kind of see the effects of a Wounding of Puncturing weapon, but it's still a little off. But, I also have some DPS-focused characters (more than I have Wounding/Puncturing Fighters). And since Module 6 (and maybe even since Gianthold to a lesser extent) I've found myself feeling like I'm just beating my head against the wall when I try to kill anything without a Vorpal weapon or a Constitution damaging weapon.

DPS just isn't a good means to kill anything anymore. Plain and simple. It's got nothing to do with kill counts and everything to do with the viability of DPS as a means to actually be a benefit to the party. Two-handed weapons aren't that far behind Constitution damage, but it's behind. The viability of a one-handed weapon fighter is even worse. I won't go as far as to say that you need a Wounding of Puncturing weapon to be successful in the new content, but you certainly benefit from having one in both time and healing costs.

If they do indeed nerf Wounding of Puncturing, then the first thing that needs to be addressed afterwards is the monster HP amounts. If they don't adjust HP, then all they would do is just give us no good way to kill something. But the problem does need to be addressed. And I doubt that the fix would end up taking away from Turbine addressing bugs and such. But when things become this unbalanced, a fix needs to come into play. The same problem is happening in almost every other facet of the game.

Casters - Sorcerers are a much better class on average than Wizards by the end-game content. Yes, Wizards are great (I love mine), but quests don't require a large enough selection of spells to warrant a slower casting time and less SP.

Melee, Style - Two-weapon fighting is superior to any other style available. They deal at least on-par damage to two-handed fighting, have at least as good of an AC as a sword-and-board fighter, and can have the most weapon effects (and deal the most ability damage). It's a clear winner to any other fighting style.

Melee, Weapons - Ability damage is far more useful to a party on end-game content that DPS. It's faster (and requires less healing because of that) due to everything having an overabundant amount of HP. And being able to have two weapons at once makes it even faster.

All three of these balance issues need to be addressed, and soon, before everything just gets so ridiculous that any effect that is put into the game causes it to become unbalanced every time, and all the Developers end up doing is chasing one balance issue after another between modules.

[Roman]

The thing i find funny about most of these posts... Is that the person that starts them and the ppl that agree with the OP never had one.

They want them nerf'd cuz they dont have them. And the guy who does has more kills them they do

Stop careing about the kill count and start thanking the guy next to you for helping you get thru the quest. The only thing kill count shows is who got the last hit.

I agree with the op.

I have a barb with dual w/p hvy picks and a w/p hvy repeater
I have a tempest ranger with dual w/p SS and a w/p long bow
I've lost count of the number of w/p repeaters, bows, daggers, SS, Rapiers and Picks that I've traded over the years.

I've owned, sold, traded and currently use w/p weapons and I think its ridiculous that a lvl 10 weapon is my preferred weapon choice on a lvl 17 quest over a set of LightningII or DustII khopeshes.

I own them, I'm invested in them and I use them to my advantage, but something is clearly broken and needs to be fixed.

[Emili]

I agree with the op.

I have a barb with dual w/p hvy picks and a w/p hvy repeater
I have a tempest ranger with dual w/p SS and a w/p long bow
I've lost count of the number of w/p repeaters, bows, daggers, SS, Rapiers and Picks that I've traded over the years.

I've owned, sold, traded and currently use w/p weapons and I think its ridiculous that a lvl 10 weapon is my preferred weapon choice on a lvl 17 quest over a set of LightningII or DustII khopeshes.

I own them, I'm invested in them and I use them to my advantage, but something is clearly broken and needs to be fixed.

This sums it up in a nutshell... why is it that the best weapon on a CR16+ mob is a level 10 weapon (lvl 8 if rr)?

ie.) Aside from shroud and high content things with a ton of HP... look at something simple like reaver now-days, - an old quest revisted by turbine to add some challenge - they bumped up the CR's on the elementals so most casting crews cannot just insta-kill them... quite funny actually when you think about it. I used to run around in the past totting two wounding melee weapons wacking on them in the past... but... when I take my rangers into the raid they literally mop up the elementals via w/p bows, heck I can target them while in reverse gravity plus with manyshot improved precise shot and one or two blast ... they're dead. LOL, make the quest a tad more difficult for the 16th lvl casters/cleric - now having to use spell damage instead of insta-kill ... but a single ranger with a level 10 weapon (sometime lvl 8) can pretty near insta-kill many of them in a few shots.

W/P should be usefull, even powerful but it should not be the upper tier.

[Melthus]

The arguments about wounding and puncturing making melees without them useless is kind of silly. Admittedly, W/P rapiers sell for a lot, but gettign either wounding OR puncturing is not that hard. I picked up 2 puncturing rapiers for under 20kpp each. I have a wounding shortsword I bought for 7.2k pp I see wounding weapons all over the AH for their base price, or even lower.

Now, my question. If you had a keen puncturing rapier, along with the improved crit and a bloodstone for confirms, would it be more, less or the same damage as an equivalent w/p?

[Scipio]

Now, my question. If you had a keen puncturing rapier, along with the improved crit and a bloodstone for confirms, would it be more, less or the same damage as an equivalent w/p?

The bloodstone yes but you only get one of keen or improved crit.

Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Doubles the base critical hit threat range of any piercing weapon you use. This feat does not stack with item effects that double threat range like keen and impact.
You obtain the following:
-Dagger
-HeavyPick
-Light Pick
-Rapier
-Short Sword

[Emili]

The arguments about wounding and puncturing making melees without them useless is kind of silly. Admittedly, W/P rapiers sell for a lot, but gettign either wounding OR puncturing is not that hard. I picked up 2 puncturing rapiers for under 20kpp each. I have a wounding shortsword I bought for 7.2k pp I see wounding weapons all over the AH for their base price, or even lower.

Now, my question. If you had a keen puncturing rapier, along with the improved crit and a bloodstone for confirms, would it be more, less or the same damage as an equivalent w/p?

I've one of those... I use it on 3/4 BaB characters until I can get ICierce on them. Keen and IC do not stack. And no a puncturer + bloodstone does not equate to WoP... Bloodstone improves the confirm rolls but does not increase threat ranges... ie.) 13-20 crit threat vs 13-20 crit threat (plus +6 to confirm die roll after threat is rolled).

Every character on my account have a few wounders and all the pierce spec'd ones have puncturers while a few have wop. Even my Wizard carries a +2 flamming burst rapier of puncturing and a +2 wounding rapier for when she holds of flesh to stones a mob.

[Rog]

REALLY WHY are u worried about a weopon type i dont understand why you care wops are powerful weopons. when you get them into the party quest is a bit easier granted but why is that a bad thing?