Thoughts on Wounding/ Puncturing

[ThrasherGT]

I was reading the other post with a similar title to this one (Which had a different focus)
and something occurred to Me.

What would Happen if Puncturing (And similar effects) only went off in The Natural Crit Range of whatever weapon they were on?

Discuss.........

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

another suggestion that's been made was to change the 1d6 to something else depending on the critical multiplier of the weapon e.g. make a rapier/ss do 1d3, and picks do 1d6 maybe.

Garth

[Turial]

I was reading the other post with a similar title to this one (Which had a different focus)
and something occurred to Me.

What would Happen if Puncturing (And similar effects) only went off in The Natural Crit Range of whatever weapon they were on?

Discuss.........

WOP rapiers would be even more sought after and WOP bows would be worth much less.

It would help mobs last a few more seconds in the grand scheme of things but it would still be much easier to kill something through con damage then almost all other ways (short of insta-kills).

[Turial]

another suggestion that's been made was to change the 1d6 to something else depending on the critical multiplier of the weapon e.g. make a rapier/ss do 1d3, and picks do 1d6 maybe.

Garth

I.E. balance them so that they are averaging the same con damage over the same period of time?

[Nyvn]

Perhaps if the 1d6 stat damage only happened on a natural 20?

[eonfreon]

How about they leave WoP alone until other issues are fixed?
You know, the insanely High Hit Points of Mobs to compensate for a Caster's Nuking Power.
Right now, any change to WoP without addressing other issues, will just make fights for melees take longer and be more costly overall.
Yes, I can hear it now:
"Good, that way that WoP guy can kill things at the same rate as my DPS guy; very, very, very slowly."
No, not good.
If you don't want a WoP guy in your party taking "your" kills then simply exclude him from your group.
Then you can DPS to your hurts content and you and your group alone pay the price instead of making others.
Some New Mobs are already resistant to Stat damage.
There is no need to nerf the Stat Damagers themselves.

[bobbryan2]

While, I support this chang.e

It would probably mean that I'd never open another chest ever again.

It's the last thing that could fall that I could possibly want.

[bobbryan2]

Some New Mobs are already resistant to Stat damage.
There is no need to nerf the Stat Damagers themselves.

When you say they're resistant to stat damage, I assume you mean something other than what I mean. I know it says they are... but they also positively disintigrate when people are W/Ping them. Cloudkill is killing them faster than firewalls.

That doesn't seem very resistant to me.

[Stormanne]

I've read thread after thread lately about how WoP are over powered. To a degree, they are, the puncturing isn't working the way it is supposed to per pencil and paper rules. It's going off on every crit instead of just three per day/rest cycle like it is supposed to. But, given the overall bloated HP of the mobs we run in to, especially at high levels, this "malfunction" of puncturing is helping us overall.

And lets be perfectly honest here, if you are really that irritated because the guy/gal with the WoP is leading the kill count instead of your DPS monster, you have more ego problems than this game can help you solve....

This game is supposed to be about people working TOGETHER for a common goal. Remember, that guys with the WoP is going to be sacrificing something else in order to use those puppies so well. A lot of times that sacrifice is DPS, which is still the bread and butter way of beating the big uglies with the purple and red names...

[Korvek]

This game is supposed to be about people working TOGETHER for a common goal. Remember, that guys with the WoP is going to be sacrificing something else in order to use those puppies so well. A lot of times that sacrifice is DPS, which is still the bread and butter way of beating the big uglies with the purple and red names...

Couldn't any hypothetical TWF Barbarian with Crit Rage II that uses dual-W/P rapiers/shortswords/daggers/whatever just switch to dual-Khopeshes or Dwarven axes for those red-named enemies, and couldn't the Tempest Ranger do something similar? Not a whole lot of sacrifice as far as I can see in that department...

[Stormanne]

Couldn't any hypothetical TWF Barbarian with Crit Rage II that uses dual-W/P rapiers/shortswords/daggers/whatever just switch to dual-Khopeshes or Dwarven axes for those red-named enemies, and couldn't the Tempest Ranger do something similar? Not a whole lot of sacrifice as far as I can see in that department...

That is true, but the majority of the people I've seen using the WoP rapiers have gone all in and taken on with weapons finesse and let str go to the wayside a bit. Granted, I don't run with a lot of pugs, so my view may be skewed compared to the rest of the games...

[Jadeare]

Seriously, this is such a non issue. What build could possibly be complaining about not being able to use WoPs?

Barb- "Nope, got them covered and with crit rage to boot"

Ranger- "10% attack speed increase... i win!"

Rogue- "I was using puncturing rapier before it was cool... and i have the T-shirt"

Paladin- "With these new enhancements that i cant afford to buy and the heavy charisma requirement for the damage enhancement i can't keep up anyway.... hmm second class dps or second class ac tank... decisions decisions.

Ftr- "Wow, with all these feats i can take all the twf feats plus ic pierce/slash as well as PA and Weapon spec....I take a set of each thanks auctioneer"

[Tomalon]

The thing i find funny about most of these posts... Is that the person that starts them and the ppl that agree with the OP never had one.

They want them nerf'd cuz they dont have them. And the guy who does has more kills them they do

Stop careing about the kill count and start thanking the guy next to you for helping you get thru the quest. The only thing kill count shows is who got the last hit.

[sirgog]

Some New Mobs are already resistant to Stat damage.
There is no need to nerf the Stat Damagers themselves.

They have about 25% fortification against stat damage. Frost Giants still have about 3400 HP (normal) and 30 Con. So 40 hits of a straight Wounder, 25 of a WoP shortsword, 17 of a WoP rapier, or about 55 hits of a two-handed DPS weapon like a Greensteel Greataxe (allowing for a few crits).

[sirgog]

The thing i find funny about most of these posts... Is that the person that starts them and the ppl that agree with the OP never had one.

They want them nerf'd cuz they dont have them. And the guy who does has more kills them they do

Stop careing about the kill count and start thanking the guy next to you for helping you get thru the quest. The only thing kill count shows is who got the last hit.

I own a WoP rapier and think more should be done to fix game balance, even if it nerfs my 'little toy' somewhat.

I'm not the only one.

It's not that WoPs get all the kills - it's that in fights with frost giants (they are the worst offenders) and other extreme HP mobs, those melees without Wounders (or some other deadly or debilitating proc like Weakening, Radiance or Puncturing) contribute nothing. The party is better off letting them die, then ressing them so they can get loot. The same is true of Shroud orthons, although there's a viable alternative there in the form of Vorpals.


So I say - fix this mess by adding mobs in large quantities that have low hitpoints, and solid defenses (e.g. a Frost Giant Minion with 220 HP, 46 AC and Evasion and a pre-cast Protection from Elements: Fire on them). There - no cheese, just a mob against which DPS is superior to WoPs.

[soupertc]

The thing i find funny about most of these posts... Is that the person that starts them and the ppl that agree with the OP never had one.

They want them nerf'd cuz they dont have them. And the guy who does has more kills them they do

Stop careing about the kill count and start thanking the guy next to you for helping you get thru the quest. The only thing kill count shows is who got the last hit.

I have one....had it since GH. I think they are overpowered to the extent that you see the LFM's up saying W/P fighters only. I think the problem is some people who own them think they are the SHIZNAT...and that is just plain silly. A monkey could rule in any quest with W/P's...infact I rolled up a pierce specced BARB who duel weilds W/P's so my 6 year old son could have a good old time in a quest and he outkills people(yes I just compared him to a monkey....all parents with small children know what I mean). The problem is not the weapon....it's the people using them and excluding others that don't have them.

[ThrasherGT]

nvm.

[Justicesar]

Just make so Wops take a mob down to 1 con...no death then dps can chip in to finish the mob off.

[Thelmallen]

I really am flabbergasted at the number of threads on this topic. I truly don't see them as any more broken many other things in this game so why are they getting all of this press? I say focus on fixing the stuff that matters, for heaven's sake. Let's make paladin and monk raise dead work. How about fixing it so that players can hit moving enemies (while enemies have you dead in their sights while you're moving). What about the bug that prevents me from seeing all of the objects and NPCs in a room when I log on half the time? How about dwarven armor mastery? Why is it that my elf can't get an increase in max dex bonus when using elven chain or mithral chain shirts while a dwarf can get that bonus with any type of armor?

These are just a few of the many things that warrant investigation as much as whether WoP make IC:Pierce specialists do better on kill counts than your WF barb with 700hp (no, 700hp isn't a bloated broken issue either, is it?).

[bobbryan2]

I really am flabbergasted at the number of threads on this topic. I truly don't see them as any more broken many other things in this game so why are they getting all of this press?

Because you're wrong and they are?