The Complete Paladin Information Thread

[SteeleTrueheart]

Added some possible thoughts on the Paladin capstone.

[sephiroth1084]

A nifty ability for either the Defender of Siberys (likely), or a paladin capstone would be a clicky of Shield Other, allowing you to take half the damage dealt to an ally upon yourself.

Another would be Chain Smite (from Fist of Raziel), which would cause Smite Evil to function similarly to Chain Lightning.

Awesome Smite (a feat out of Complete Champion) could also make for an interesting capstone ability: smite evil ignores incorporeal miss chance, ignores a degree of damage reduction, and has a chance to trip opponents.

A boosted aura could be interesting...something in a stackable to hit and damage bonus mayhaps? Or, better yet, a regeneration aura...causing all within your aura to regain HP at a fast enough rate to be significant.

We could look to the Knight class from the PHB II for suggestions as well, including: an ability that prevents the paladin from dying...say, it automatically expends a turn undead attempt to leave a paladin at 1 HP, rather than allow him to die. Another possibility would be an ability that exempts paladins from auto-failing a saving throw on a roll of a '1'. Mettle would also be nice, though of somewhat limited utility currently.

[SteeleTrueheart]

A few updates. Such as simplifying the Smite evil calculation

Enhancements will come this weekend, after a bit more testing.

[kingfisher]

thanks for putting all the info in one place. gj.

[SteeleTrueheart]

Enhancements updated, minor formatting still to be done.

Quote of the week has been updated.

[SteeleTrueheart]

thanks for putting all the info in one place. gj.

Thanks for reading. I hope it helps all the aspiring Paladins out there.

[Emili]

You can't have both Power Attack and Combat Expertise active at the same time. So, you won't be at a -10 to hit. I would only take one or the other though, as you will find yourself keeping one on all the time, the other hardly every used.

IMO... this is a hard choice on a pally since feats are thin. If you can fit both in it is a good thing, if not one or the other. One of the saving graces of my fighter is that she has both... thus she can produce more dps or turtle down given the situation - versitility. ie.) I run my shrouds with PA on however in other quests I may opt to CE from time to time... like reaver I'll tank with CE on then come killing time turn on PA... Hound? Vod? etc... there are plenty of places where having the option to switch a role brings more option to the groups strategy.

[kingfisher]

Thanks for reading. I hope it helps all the aspiring Paladins out there.

very helpful in finding the important lvl breaks for multi-class palli's. its just mean they moved the zeal to lvl 4 where you can't have zeal+tempest+evasion (but that would have been pretty unfair in its own right lol). The 12 pally 6 ranger 2 monk looks fun as hell depending on how/if they change tempest I tho. txs again

[Emili]

Who thinks that paladins are the equivalent of rangers? A properly built TWF ranger is currently ahead of a TWF paladin. No ranger would be foolish enough to go s/b, so they win there too.

Well not really equivalent... the gap is becoming pretty darn close though. The pally has a couple drawbacks, It's a lot more clicking and no evasion... when Chalice is available it's pretty much on par with favored enemy evil outsider... add divine might + zeal + df and you're on par in DPS, plus you have an exalted smite for 8 bursts of very heavy damages, the lack of evasion leaves a defensive gap but the saves and hp is good, the feat expenditure varies ... the twf chain on ranger is free tempest uses 3 of them (needs the SA chain) thus ranger is three feats up should the pally opt for the SA chain... otherwise they're par featwise. AC wise the ranger is 1.5 + favored ahead on a lot of mob.

[Dexxaan]

Hey Steel

I like what you´ve done here.

Thanks for the work, Paladins definitely have a great deal more to offer, and most new players who´d like to build one need these planning tools to make their type of Paladin.

I salute you.

[SteeleTrueheart]

More Updates

Tables in the basic info section now.

Formatting still needs to be cleaned up.

[SteeleTrueheart]

Updated and tidied somewhat.

[SteeleTrueheart]

Updated with capstone information.

[SteeleTrueheart]

Was thinking of running a TWF Paladin up and was just contemplating some numbers with Knight of the Chalice (KotC) and a scimitar without factoring any strength or seeker bonuses. Scimitar is a free proficiency and has a decent critical range.

I assume improved crit feat.
I assume capstone.
I assume KotC
I did not count --> Divine Favour, Divine Might, Strength Bonus. Which for a decent Paladin could be anywhere between +12-+16 extra base damage.

At Level 20 with a Green Steel (GS) Pos/Pos/Pos Scimitar on an Evil Outsider

Basic Attack
GS Scimitar (15-20/2)
Normal Hit 2-14: 1d8 +5 +11d6 [17-79 Average: 48][Amount that would be subject to Damage Reduction (DR):6-13 : Average 9.5]
Critical Hit 15-19: 2d8 +10 +17d6 [29-128 Average: 78.5][DR: 12-26 : Av 19]
Nat 20 (confirmed): 2d8 +10 +21d6 [33-152 Average: 89][DR: 12-26 : Av 19]
Per swing Average: 55.275

Exalted Smite IV
GS Scimitar (13-20/4)
Normal Hit 2-12: 1d8 +72 +11d6 [84-146 Average: 115][DR: 73-80 : Av 76.5]
Critical Hit 13-19: 4d8 +288 +21d6 [313-446 Average: 370.5][DR: 292-320 : Av 306]
Nat 20 (confirmed): 4d8 +288 +25d6 [317-470 Average: 384.5][DR: 292-320 : Av 306]
Per swing Average: 212.15

Divine Sacrifice III
GS Scimitar (15-20/3)
Normal Hit 2-14: 1d8 +5 +20d6 [26-133 Average: 79.5][DR: 6-13 : Av 9.5]
Critical Hit 15-19: 3d8 +15 +28d6 [46-207 Average: 126.5][DR: 18-39 : Av 28.5]
Nat 20 (confirmed): 3d8 +15 +32d6 [50-231 Average: 140.5][DR: 18-39 : Av 28.5]
Per swing Average: 90.325

That looks nice.

[SteeleTrueheart]

Paladins before Mod 8:


Paladins before Mod 9:


Paladins after Mod 9:

[SteeleTrueheart]

Hmmm.

So I was rereading the massively interview and the gamebanshee interview and saw this:

She also hinted at changes for Module 9. The level cap will be increased up to 20, and players will be headed to Shavarath, picking up the storyline from Mod 6 and 7. There'll be more arkons, more demons and devils, and "a nice balance" of celestial and demonic stuff. They just got the concept art in for a fortress where, as each army fell there, the next army was built on top of it, so there are cliffs with siege engines sticking out of them and crumbling leftover bricks underfoot. "I think it's going to be very satisfying," says Paiz.

We’ve been enjoying the alternate realms for some time, and players will be able to really dig deep into Shavarath in Module 9. Shavarath will come with a celestial host of Archons (like the Solar Archon), a demonic host including some old favorites like the Marilith, Efreeti, and Djinn, and an infernal host of Barbazu, Orthons, Pit Fiends, and Horned Devils.

Celestial 'stuff' is generally gonna be bad for paladins to hurt.

On the plus side there are a lot of evil foes there too.

Really peaking my interest is:

Module 9 will definitely include a fantastic raid (hope you like a whole lot of Pit Fiends and Horned Devils) and we’ve got some great raid loot to go with it. These raid items will not leverage the crafting system – that is something for M8, but in M9 we are focusing on more traditional named raid items that instead combine to greater heights. Some of the high-level Enhancements players can get at level 20 will also stack with the raid set bonuses to give even greater benefits.

[SteeleTrueheart]

I have wanted to do some numbers on different greensteel weapons for comparison.

So far I have done a +++ khopesh vs a +++ scimitar and they are almost even in the normal hits/exhalted smites but khopesh leads slightly in the Divine sacrifice use.

I will also run some numbers for the effect of DR of various levels (probably 15, 30 & 60) and maybe compare it to a Min2 weapon to see the difference.

[SteeleTrueheart]

A few modifications and clarifications. Also check out Quote (thread) of the Week! which highlights probably the most pressing issue for paladins.

[SteeleTrueheart]

From the Lammania Release Notes:

The durations of Bladesworn Transformation, Divine Favor, Flare, Focusing Chant, and Resistance have been changed to 24 seconds plus 6 seconds per caster level.

Cleric and Paladin Improved Turning have had their costs reduced to 1/2/3 action points from 2/4/6

Corrected an error in the description of Paladin Redemption III.

Many pieces of gear have been improved, and named loot has been added to many quests.

The Transmuting weapon enchantment is now: "This weapon transmutes into a form that is able to bypass any material based Damage Reduction. (Adamantine, Alchemical Silver, Byeshk, Cold Iron, or Mithril)"

The plane of irian is waning! All permanent magic items that produce a "Resurrection" or "True Resurrection" effect now produce a "Raise Dead" effect. This includes items with the "Aspect of Positive Energy" effect from the Shroud.

Red-named bosses can now be affected by ability damage. They can take up to 10 points of damage to each ability score, and this damage cannot reduce their ability scores below 1.

Paladin Weapons of Good
Prerequisites: Level 20 Paladin, 74 Action points spent
Cost: 2 Action Points
Benefit: Any weapon you wield is considered Good aligned for purposes of bypassing damage reduction, deal 1d6 additional holy damage against all evil opponents and an additional 2d6 light damage against evil undead or evil outsiders.

Paladin
Defender of Siberys I
Prerequisites: Level 6 Paladin, Paladin Bulwark of Good I, Paladin Resistance of Good I, Paladin Courage of Good I, Paladin Focus of Good I, Paladin Paladin Armor Class Boost I, and any one of the following: Tower Shield Proficiency, Shield Mastery, or Combat Expertise.
Cost: 4 Action Points
Benefit: Protecting the weak from the depredations of the strong, you become a paragon of defense. This prestige enhancement grants you 2 additional Turn attempts, additional armor class when blocking with a shield, increases the maximum dexterity bonus allowed by tower shields by 1, and the ability to enter a defensive stance or to create a Magic Circle Against Evil effect.
Defender of Siberys I: Defensive Stance
Benefit: You may expend a Paladin armor boost to become a bastion of defense, gaining a +2 Sacred bonus to Strength and Constitution, a +1 Sacred bonus on all saves, a +2 Dodge bonus to Armor Class, and produce 50% more hate with your melee attacks. While in this stance, you move at one quarter speed.
Defender of Siberys I: Magic Circle
Benefit: You may expend a turn attempt to produce a Magic Circle Against Evil effect.
Paladin Defender of Siberys II
Prerequisites: Level 12 Paladin, Defender of Siberys I, Paladin Bulwark of Good II, Paladin Resistance of Good II, and any of: Paladin Rally I, Paladin Divine Righteousness I, Paladin Toughness II
Cost: 2 Action Points
Benefit: Protecting the weak from the depredations of the strong, you become a paragon of defense. This prestige enhancement grants you an additional Lay on Hands use per rest, 25% increased hate generation, increases the maximum dexterity bonus allowed by tower shields and heavy armor by 1, and the ability to enter an improved defensive stance or to produce a Mass Shield of Faith effect.
Defender of Siberys II: Improved Defensive Stance
Benefit: You may expend a Paladin armor boost to become a bastion of defense, gaining a +3 Sacred bonus to Strength and Constitution, a +2 Sacred bonus on all saves, a +3 Dodge bonus to Armor Class, and produce 100% more hate with your melee attacks. While in this stance, you move at one third speed.
Defender of Siberys II: Mass Shield of Faith
Benefit: You may expend a turn attempt to produce a Mass Shield of Faith effect.
Paladin Defender of Siberys III
Prerequisites: : Level 18 Paladin, Defender of Siberys II, Paladin Bulwark of Good III, Paladin Resistance of Good III, and any Paladin Faith II enhancement.
Cost: 2 Action Points
Benefit: Protecting the weak from the depredations of the strong, you become a paragon of defense. This prestige enhancement increases the strength of all of your defensive auras, increases the maximum dexterity bonus allowed by tower shields and medium or heavy armor by 1, and grants the ability to enter a superior defensive stance or to defy your enemies in a glorious stand against evil.
Defender of Siberys III: Superior Defensive Stance
Benefits: You may expend a Paladin armor boost to become a bastion of defense, gaining a +4 Sacred bonus to Strength and Constitution, a +3 Sacred bonus on all saves, a +4 Dodge bonus to Armor Class, and produce 200% more hate with your melee attacks. While in this stance, you move at half speed.
Defender of Siberys III: Glorious Stand
Benefits: You may expend a turn attempt to make a glorious stand against your enemies. For a short duration of time, you gain DR 20/epic, take reduced damage from elemental and negative energy, receive double healing from positive energy, and are immune to secondary effects of attacks such as 'wounding' or 'vorpal'. Each time you take damage, you gain the effects of a Cure Light Wounds spell.
Paladin Hunter of the Dead I
Prerequisites: Level 6 Paladin, Paladin Extra Turning I, Paladin Improved Turning I, and any one of Paladin Divine Light I or Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Cost: 4 Action Points
Benefit: Devoted to the destruction of the undead, you gain 2 additional turning and remove disease attempts per rest, +1 to your level when turning, a +2 bonus on saving throws against spells and effects produced by undead, and all of your attacks are considered Ghost Touch, ignoring the chance to miss incorporeal creatures. Positive energy effects heal you for more and you take less damage from negative energy effects. You are able to expend a use of your Paladin Remove Disease ability to produce a Lesser Restoration effect.
Paladin Hunter of the Dead II
Prerequisites: Level 12 Paladin, Paladin Hunter of the Dead I, Paladin Extra Turning II, Paladin Improved Turning II, and any one of Paladin Divine Light II, Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II, or Paladin Redemption I
Cost: 2 Action Points
Benefit: Devoted to the destruction of the undead, you gain 2 additional turning and remove disease attempts per rest, +1 to your level when turning, a +2 bonus on saving throws against spells and effects produced by undead, and your spirit is sealed - you are now immune to energy drain from any source and effects that create spawn on death. Positive energy effects heal you for more and you take less damage from negative energy effects. You are able to expend a use of your Paladin Remove Disease ability to produce a Restoration effect.
Paladin Hunter of the Dead III
Prerequisites: Level 18 Paladin, Paladin Hunter of the Dead II, Paladin Extra Turning III, Paladin Improved Turning III, any Paladin Faith II enhancement
Cost: 2 Action Points
Benefit: Devoted to the destruction of the undead, you gain 2 additional turning and remove disease attempts per rest, +1 to your level when turning, a +2 bonus on saving throws against spells and effects produced by undead, and all attacks you make (melee, ranged, or unarmed) have a chance of destroying undead instantly on what would be a Vorpal strike. (Natural 20 followed by confirmation, Will DC: 30 partial, deals Light damage to targets immune to instant destruction effects or save.) Positive energy effects heal you for more and you take less damage from negative energy effects. You are able to expend a use of your Paladin Remove Disease ability to produce a Greater Restoration effect.
Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Prerequisites: Paladin 6, Paladin Courage of Good I, Paladin Energy of the Templar I, Paladin Extra Smite Evil II, and any one of: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I, Paladin Divine Might I, or Paladin Exalted Smite I.
Cost: 4 Action Points
Benefit: You are devoted to fighting demons and other evil outsiders, driving them from Eberron forever. Your maximum number of Smites is increased by one, your anti-fear aura is improved, and you have +1 to attack Evil Outsiders and deal 1d6 additional damage with melee and unarmed attacks against them. You resist evil influences particularly well, gaining a +2 bonus to saves against spells and effects produced by Evil Outsiders.
Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Prerequisites: Paladin 12, Paladin Knight of the Chalice I, Paladin Courage of Good II, Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Cost: 2 Action Points
Benefit: You are devoted to fighting demons and other evil outsiders, driving them from Eberron forever. Your maximum number of Smites is increased by one, your anti-fear aura is improved, and you have +2 to attack Evil Outsiders and deal 2d6 additional damage with melee and unarmed attacks against them. You resist evil influences particularly well, gaining a +3 bonus to saves against spells and effects produced by Evil Outsiders.
Knight of the Chalice Censure Demons
Benefit: You may expend a turn undead attempt to stun a targetted demon or other Chaotic Evil outsider. A successful Will save DC: 10 + Paladin Level + Charisma Modifier negates this effect. The target gains repeated saves to break free of this effect.
Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
Prerequisites: Paladin 18, Paladin Knight of the Chalice II, any Paladin Faith II enhancement
Cost: 2 Action Points
Benefit: You are devoted to fighting demons and other evil outsiders, driving them from Eberron forever. Your maximum number of Smites is increased by one, your anti-fear aura is improved, and you have +4 to attack Evil Outsiders and deal 4d6 additional damage with melee and unarmed attacks against them. You resist evil influences particularly well, gaining a +4 bonus to saves against spells and effects produced by Evil Outsiders.

[SteeleTrueheart]

Hunter of the Dead II

The bonus for healing is apparently about 20% so i guess 10% each level.

Knight of the Chalice II

Censure Demon ability can be used on Devils despite it's description.