So, is this the long-term state of enemy caster AI?

[parvo]

Because if it is, that is a really sad thing.

Enemy casters run up to melee range, act stupid for a few moments, and (if they are still alive), turn around and fire spells away from thier attackers.

It's the sorriest AI of any MMO I've ever seen. If it were fixed, it would go a long way toward re-balancing player vs. environment. It would go a long way toward making the game challenging and fun again.

I'm begging here. I want to be excited to play. Give me a reason to hope. If there is no plan to fix enemy caster AI, there's no reason to stay.

[TreknaQudane]

Because if it is, that is a really sad thing.

Enemy casters run up to melee range, act stupid for a few moments, and (if they are still alive), turn around and fire spells away from thier attackers.

It's the sorriest AI of any MMO I've ever seen. If it were fixed, it would go a long way toward re-balancing player vs. environment. It would go a long way toward making the game challenging and fun again.

I'm begging here. I want to be excited to play. Give me a reason to hope. If there is no plan to fix enemy caster AI, there's no reason to stay.

Maybe try Perma-Injury where you take no healing in a quest... fall to far, sprain your ankle and force your party to continue on without you?

[toughguyjoe]

So why when Parvo posts something legitimate does the flame begin immediately? i've seen red robed dudes run up to me, spin around and throw their hand out like a ray spell, and in the heat of combat i don't know if they are even hitting me with "searing light" or whatever ray they mean to throw, so he might be right. they might be messed up and not acting properly. As much as i hate when Parvo tries to push perma-death on people, hes not doing it here. hes asking a legitimate question.

[parvo]

So why when Parvo posts something legitimate does the flame begin immediately? i've seen red robed dudes run up to me, spin around and throw their hand out like a ray spell, and in the heat of combat i don't know if they are even hitting me with "searing light" or whatever ray they mean to throw, so he might be right. they might be messed up and not acting properly. As much as i hate when Parvo tries to push perma-death on people, hes not doing it here. hes asking a legitimate question.

There's no "might be right" about it. If you want to test it, it's as simple as approaching any non-anchored caster. Very few will act differently than I describe.

[TreknaQudane]

So why when Parvo posts something legitimate does the flame begin immediately? i've seen red robed dudes run up to me, spin around and throw their hand out like a ray spell, and in the heat of combat i don't know if they are even hitting me with "searing light" or whatever ray they mean to throw, so he might be right. they might be messed up and not acting properly. As much as i hate when Parvo tries to push perma-death on people, hes not doing it here. hes asking a legitimate question.

Trust me, thats not a flame.

Don't you think Turbine's been trying to make casters more 'intelligent' since the games creation? That however isn't easy as thought.. Ok, make a caster cast more. Spells have range... Ok they need to get in range, oh wait, the target moved! Many of the turn and shoot rays happen when you move towards the caster as they move towards you. So what'd the solution be? have casters just cast even if they couldn't hit a target, move to AoE spells like grease and sleet storm so they can? That'll go over well.

[Shyver]

The caster AI needs to be fixed. A class that should be feared by players has become a joke that can be ignored.

Take for example, last night I decided to try out the new area and the lowbie quest with the dragon (can't recall the name). The casters would turn from me and fire magic missles and acid arrows into a wall in a different direction, allowing me to kill his melee guards and then simply walking up to him and dispatching him at will.

It's something that needs to be fixed to add that little bit of challenge back into the game when dealing with a mob caster. Though I see this a lot more in the low to mid levels than at the higher levels. But that could be due to everyone keying into and killing ememy casters first at higher levels.

[dragonoffrost]

Wait until you get to high levels and have the Frost Giant Clerics cast a blade barrier and then his other Giant buddies ping-pong you in the blade barriers... good times and good AI!

[Beherit_Baphomar]

Trust me, thats not a flame.

Don't you think Turbine's been trying to make casters more 'intelligent' since the games creation? That however isn't easy as thought...

Problem is, casters havent always acted this way.

I cant remember when it happened, but it was when an "improvement" in AI was put in place....it actually started happening when the AI was made more intelligent...

[Aspenor]

Problem is, casters havent always acted this way.

I cant remember when it happened, but it was when an "improvement" in AI was put in place....it actually started happening when the AI was made more intelligent...

It was made sometime in Mod 4 or 5 when ranged AI was tweaked, causing archers and other ranged enemies to run away.

Remember the old whiff whiff as you chased hobgoblin archers?

I think we can blame that change.

[Kaldaka]

/signed

It needs to be looked at again ...

I notice it most on the kobold casters in the harbor. I'm sure it happens other places as well tho ...

[Mindspat]

I also suspect that every time there's a change made to the AI we have this incredible server lag. The Caster's AI, all MObs for that matter, have gotten worse recently. It's almost as if they see your location as a Zero Point and the AI is reading "go to Zero Point" which is Exactly where your position is and this should not be possible. As an example, If I Jump I'll land directly on the head of a mob trying to cast spells at me; at least we're no longer taking falling damage for being hung up on mobs.

What cracks me up is how EVERY mob in this game tries to flank you. That's total troll dung and prescribes to a situation of annoyance and generally un-fun encounters. There is a point where this should be adjusted in terms of Game Play rather then Theory.

[GreenGurgler]

Maybe this is Turbines way of 'balancing' the fact that enemy casters have unlimited SP and a 1,000,000 for a Concentration check and NEVER fail! Oh, and they all have quicken on permanently!!

Ok, jk... this is messed up, but I dont care that much since the caster mobs have been 'cheating' since day one. It is refreshing to see them suck for awhile.

Plus, since this goes against the players, remember that means Turbine will fix it ASAP. but if it went against us, it might never get fixed.

[Hafeal]

If there is no plan to fix enemy caster AI, there's no reason to stay.

A bit over-dramatic, no?

Plenty of reason to stay, not the least of which is the new mod.

I expect better and more constructive criticism from you parvo, not acting like a noobie forum poster throwing a tantrum.

AI is the albatross around the gaming world neck. I think DDO does a fairly good job with it all things considered. It is nice to see the AI experiencing essentially the same problems we have - targeting and casting in time, given the spell limitations. Maybe it will lead to improvements for the AI and the players.

As I have said in a thread before - try programming stupidity some time. Many creatures are STUPID, and should battle accordingly. They should not always make the right choice or go in the right direction. I am not saying that is what has happened here but I am pointing out that AI programming is very complex and we should keep it in perspective.

[JetEskimo]

..It's the sorriest AI of any MMO I've ever seen...

You've obviously never played City of Heroes, where they stand where spawned, and don't move even if you set a puddle of fire underneath them.

But still, for casters, they actually *would* be better of if they stood their ground. At least then they'd get a shot off before death.

[parvo]

Problem is, casters havent always acted this way.

I cant remember when it happened, but it was when an "improvement" in AI was put in place....it actually started happening when the AI was made more intelligent...

Exactly.

[parvo]

It was made sometime in Mod 4 or 5 when ranged AI was tweaked, causing archers and other ranged enemies to run away.

Remember the old whiff whiff as you chased hobgoblin archers?

I think we can blame that change.

I think you're right. After the "improvement" casters and ranged enemies would sometimes run away indefenitely. At that time, if you couldn't catch them, the best thing to do was back off until they got to range then close on them after they stopped. But even then, as bad as that was, the AI was better than it is now.

[Dylos_Moon]

It was made sometime in Mod 4 or 5 when ranged AI was tweaked, causing archers and other ranged enemies to run away.

Remember the old whiff whiff as you chased hobgoblin archers?

I think we can blame that change.

Chased? I remember taking out my ranged weapon, firing it and them and they'd run back to me due to the AI of all mobs being inclined to want to melee you if you are ranging, at least until they realize they aren't programmed to melee.

[In_Like_Flynn]

Enemy casters run up to melee range, act stupid for a few moments, and (if they are still alive), turn around and fire spells away from thier attackers.

I agree that AI is the most disappointing thing about DDO at the moment.

[Cendaer]

Enemy casters run up to melee range, act stupid for a few moments, and (if they are still alive), turn around and fire spells away from thier attackers.

I'm noticing the same thing with a lot of enemy casters, and some monsters that prefer ranged attacks.

They run up and bump into you, then turn around to run away to ranged distance. Sometimes they will turn around before firing a spell, sometimes they don't.

Or

They run completely past you, but don't turn around to face your back before they start firing off spells.

I've also been seeing monsters who prefer ranged attacks facing the wrong direction while attacking, and doing nothing to correct their position.

Since I've only been playing the NPE areas for the last several days, I can only say I've been seeing it happen there. Most noticeably in the quests using variations of the "Low Road" and "Matter of Protection" maps.

[Deadz]

/signed

It needs to be looked at again ...

I notice it most on the kobold casters in the harbor. I'm sure it happens other places as well tho ...

Well.. they are kobolds...

When was the last time you read a book written by a kobold.. huh????

Yeah k.. i'll agree, i notice it too, but mostly when i'm moving around, if i stand still fighting it doesn' thappen, it's that they have poor tracking, or once the /cast spell is triggered, their target is set.. but when i'm fighting them it looks like they just turn around and attack the wall.. .STUPID WALL DIE!!!