So, is this the long-term state of enemy caster AI?

[parvo]

Because if it is, that is a really sad thing.

Enemy casters run up to melee range, act stupid for a few moments, and (if they are still alive), turn around and fire spells away from thier attackers.

It's the sorriest AI of any MMO I've ever seen. If it were fixed, it would go a long way toward re-balancing player vs. environment. It would go a long way toward making the game challenging and fun again.

I'm begging here. I want to be excited to play. Give me a reason to hope. If there is no plan to fix enemy caster AI, there's no reason to stay.

[TreknaQudane]

Because if it is, that is a really sad thing.

Enemy casters run up to melee range, act stupid for a few moments, and (if they are still alive), turn around and fire spells away from thier attackers.

It's the sorriest AI of any MMO I've ever seen. If it were fixed, it would go a long way toward re-balancing player vs. environment. It would go a long way toward making the game challenging and fun again.

I'm begging here. I want to be excited to play. Give me a reason to hope. If there is no plan to fix enemy caster AI, there's no reason to stay.

Maybe try Perma-Injury where you take no healing in a quest... fall to far, sprain your ankle and force your party to continue on without you?

[toughguyjoe]

So why when Parvo posts something legitimate does the flame begin immediately? i've seen red robed dudes run up to me, spin around and throw their hand out like a ray spell, and in the heat of combat i don't know if they are even hitting me with "searing light" or whatever ray they mean to throw, so he might be right. they might be messed up and not acting properly. As much as i hate when Parvo tries to push perma-death on people, hes not doing it here. hes asking a legitimate question.

[parvo]

So why when Parvo posts something legitimate does the flame begin immediately? i've seen red robed dudes run up to me, spin around and throw their hand out like a ray spell, and in the heat of combat i don't know if they are even hitting me with "searing light" or whatever ray they mean to throw, so he might be right. they might be messed up and not acting properly. As much as i hate when Parvo tries to push perma-death on people, hes not doing it here. hes asking a legitimate question.

There's no "might be right" about it. If you want to test it, it's as simple as approaching any non-anchored caster. Very few will act differently than I describe.

[Ghoste]

There's no "might be right" about it. If you want to test it, it's as simple as approaching any non-anchored caster. Very few will act differently than I describe.

I can confirm Parvo's observations, and that it does happen frequently with many different types of mobs. It looks like the enemy casters are attempting to shoot rays from their rears, not their finger tips. Their hands are going out in the other direction because they're asking a buddy to "pull my finger".

[Trappers]

I think part of Parvo's problem is that he's one heck of a good player. Until I joined MV and started playing real permadeath, I thought I'd played with some of the best in the game on Khyber. Parvo and some of the others in our guild blow them out of the water. They have to or they'd die. These guys have been doing quests like Crucible, Invaders and PoP with no spoilers and no deaths recently! How many of you can do that consistently? When you've played PD for awhile, your skills increase dramatically and you need increased challenge to make the game exciting.

One of the most refreshing things about PD forums and game chat is the lack of whining over anything new that makes things more difficult or changes a quest we know inside out.

That said, we do need to remember that there are new players who stink at the game (remembering my own learning experience). They need a bit of a nerf while learning the game. Perhaps, the AI could be left easier at normal and solo and fixed at hard/elite? Not sure that's possible, but I'd hate to see new players scared away by a fix.

[TreknaQudane]

So why when Parvo posts something legitimate does the flame begin immediately? i've seen red robed dudes run up to me, spin around and throw their hand out like a ray spell, and in the heat of combat i don't know if they are even hitting me with "searing light" or whatever ray they mean to throw, so he might be right. they might be messed up and not acting properly. As much as i hate when Parvo tries to push perma-death on people, hes not doing it here. hes asking a legitimate question.

Trust me, thats not a flame.

Don't you think Turbine's been trying to make casters more 'intelligent' since the games creation? That however isn't easy as thought.. Ok, make a caster cast more. Spells have range... Ok they need to get in range, oh wait, the target moved! Many of the turn and shoot rays happen when you move towards the caster as they move towards you. So what'd the solution be? have casters just cast even if they couldn't hit a target, move to AoE spells like grease and sleet storm so they can? That'll go over well.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

Trust me, thats not a flame.

Don't you think Turbine's been trying to make casters more 'intelligent' since the games creation? That however isn't easy as thought...

Problem is, casters havent always acted this way.

I cant remember when it happened, but it was when an "improvement" in AI was put in place....it actually started happening when the AI was made more intelligent...

[Aspenor]

Problem is, casters havent always acted this way.

I cant remember when it happened, but it was when an "improvement" in AI was put in place....it actually started happening when the AI was made more intelligent...

It was made sometime in Mod 4 or 5 when ranged AI was tweaked, causing archers and other ranged enemies to run away.

Remember the old whiff whiff as you chased hobgoblin archers?

I think we can blame that change.

[Kaldaka]

/signed

It needs to be looked at again ...

I notice it most on the kobold casters in the harbor. I'm sure it happens other places as well tho ...

[parvo]

Problem is, casters havent always acted this way.

I cant remember when it happened, but it was when an "improvement" in AI was put in place....it actually started happening when the AI was made more intelligent...

Exactly.

[Shyver]

The caster AI needs to be fixed. A class that should be feared by players has become a joke that can be ignored.

Take for example, last night I decided to try out the new area and the lowbie quest with the dragon (can't recall the name). The casters would turn from me and fire magic missles and acid arrows into a wall in a different direction, allowing me to kill his melee guards and then simply walking up to him and dispatching him at will.

It's something that needs to be fixed to add that little bit of challenge back into the game when dealing with a mob caster. Though I see this a lot more in the low to mid levels than at the higher levels. But that could be due to everyone keying into and killing ememy casters first at higher levels.

[dragonoffrost]

Wait until you get to high levels and have the Frost Giant Clerics cast a blade barrier and then his other Giant buddies ping-pong you in the blade barriers... good times and good AI!

[Hafeal]

If there is no plan to fix enemy caster AI, there's no reason to stay.

A bit over-dramatic, no?

Plenty of reason to stay, not the least of which is the new mod.

I expect better and more constructive criticism from you parvo, not acting like a noobie forum poster throwing a tantrum.

AI is the albatross around the gaming world neck. I think DDO does a fairly good job with it all things considered. It is nice to see the AI experiencing essentially the same problems we have - targeting and casting in time, given the spell limitations. Maybe it will lead to improvements for the AI and the players.

As I have said in a thread before - try programming stupidity some time. Many creatures are STUPID, and should battle accordingly. They should not always make the right choice or go in the right direction. I am not saying that is what has happened here but I am pointing out that AI programming is very complex and we should keep it in perspective.

[JetEskimo]

..It's the sorriest AI of any MMO I've ever seen...

You've obviously never played City of Heroes, where they stand where spawned, and don't move even if you set a puddle of fire underneath them.

But still, for casters, they actually *would* be better of if they stood their ground. At least then they'd get a shot off before death.

[Cendaer]

Enemy casters run up to melee range, act stupid for a few moments, and (if they are still alive), turn around and fire spells away from thier attackers.

I'm noticing the same thing with a lot of enemy casters, and some monsters that prefer ranged attacks.

They run up and bump into you, then turn around to run away to ranged distance. Sometimes they will turn around before firing a spell, sometimes they don't.

Or

They run completely past you, but don't turn around to face your back before they start firing off spells.

I've also been seeing monsters who prefer ranged attacks facing the wrong direction while attacking, and doing nothing to correct their position.

Since I've only been playing the NPE areas for the last several days, I can only say I've been seeing it happen there. Most noticeably in the quests using variations of the "Low Road" and "Matter of Protection" maps.

[Tin_Dragon]

Because if it is, that is a really sad thing.

Enemy casters run up to melee range, act stupid for a few moments, and (if they are still alive), turn around and fire spells away from thier attackers.

It's the sorriest AI of any MMO I've ever seen. If it were fixed, it would go a long way toward re-balancing player vs. environment. It would go a long way toward making the game challenging and fun again.

I'm begging here. I want to be excited to play. Give me a reason to hope. If there is no plan to fix enemy caster AI, there's no reason to stay.

Maybe Turbine figured that was fair nuff, since whenever said Gnoll caster is DIRECTLY in front me, within 5-10' or so, and i hit a quickened FoD on it, it says I must face the target

Fair is fair.