Hound Changes - is it just me?

[Sirea]

After trying to run Hound three times in the last two days using tried-and-true strategy of intimitank/kill team and failing miserably, it's become apparent that there have been changes to Hound that I don't think were particularly necessary. But I could just be imagining things too.

Things I've noticed:
-The Keeper mind flayers spawn MUCH less, to where you can't charm the little dogs then run around and get another set of stones for backup when they break. They don't seem to spawn until the little dogs are about to break, then you have to run around frantically for stones while not killing the little dogs.

-Many more renders seem to spawn, and sooner, and from more portals than east and south. Crowd control set-up (ie solid fogs) in the east is not nearly as effective as it was before.

-Beholders seem to spawn MUCH sooner and with more frequency. Used to be they wouldn't start spawning until you used the second set of stones, but now they spawn during the first set of stones.

My question is, why tweak Hound? It has a good, sound strategy to it, there's something for everyone to do, everyone has a role and can help out. No twinks, no pikers; it's a good solid raid. And it used to be one of my favorites. But sadly I'm discouraged after six or seven party wipes (because you know if u wipe once in Hound you usually try again), trying different strategies, different difficulties (because the first one was Epic, we thought maybe that was why, but the same problems persist on all difficulty levels). I'm sure once we figure out how to work around the changes (if indeed they are permanent changes and not glitches) Hound will be fun again. But right now I'm kinda shying away from it until we can figure out how to handle everything...

[Talcyndl]

Per a Developer post in response to a similar thread, one acknowledged change is that the Hound now has the intended size (Gargantuan IIRC) and that size is figured in the Intimidate check.

[tihocan]

I think it's nice it's harder, since it was too easy before.
I'm not sure yet how I'd rate the changes though. Only ran it once, I was in the middle, so I only noticed the lack of charming stones... definitely added to the stress factor

[GlassCannon]

I think it's nice it's harder, since it was too easy before.
I'm not sure yet how I'd rate the changes though. Only ran it once, I was in the middle, so I only noticed the lack of charming stones... definitely added to the stress factor

Then again you likely play this game every single day instead of one day a week, for maybe 6 hours. The maintained skill level you likely portray as a symptom is vast in comparison to a weekend gamer. That, and you have equipment coming out your ears.

[tihocan]

Then again you likely play this game every single day instead of one day a week, for maybe 6 hours. The maintained skill level you likely portray as a symptom is vast in comparison to a weekend gamer. That, and you have equipment coming out your ears.

Hmm not really. Although I do check the AH every day, but believe me, it's a bad habit, more likely to get you broke than anything else

[maddmatt70]

I have noticed two definite changes in VOD as well - this is on elite. 1. Sulu has a much higher to-hit. Really only the highest of high ac characters can tank him exceedingly well and make him miss a great deal (basically a 6 ranger monk splash rest whatever with all the gear and all the buffs will still get hit 10-20% of the time). Having barbarians with their high dr and more hit points or just high hit point characters is a much better option then it was in the past for tanking sulu. 2. Sulu has more hit points so the fight takes longer.

[Isssssa]

Previously, the hound was balanced. normal was easily pugable while epic took a solid well balanced group to complete. It was how a raid should be.

[Samadhi]

Previously, the hound was balanced. normal was easily pugable while epic took a solid well balanced group to complete. It was how a raid should be.

Although amusingly, most PUGs seemed BARELY capable of doing it on norm, as sad as this is. I can't even imagine PUG-ing this raid now - and quite frankly see myself avoiding it entirely unless it's primarily people I know from this point out.

[Sirea]

Used to be even if you had a PUG group, if everyone knew their role then it'd be cake. If you had a couple solid people for kill team, preferrably paladins and a bard, a good intimitank, a caster for buffs/crowd control and two or three decent clerics then you were set.

Intimidate's not the problem, it's the increased mobs and decreased spawning of Keepers that's the problem. Like I said before, it probably just involves a tweak in strategy. But unfortunately it'll be a while before the improved strategy trickles down to people like me who only raid once or twice a week.

[sephiroth1084]

Ran this twice yesterday on normal. First time we wiped, but that was more from people not knowing their roles and from indistinct leadership and directions. Second time around it was my group, and I made sure to include more instructing before passing the mantle to someone with more experience (this was my first time running it post-Mod 8, though I was somewhat prepared, having read the forums regarding the changes...thank you).

It was a little rough in places, but we got a completion without TOO much trouble. Certainly more difficult, which, I for one, have mixed feelings about. I normally run this as a PUG, and before the changes my success rate was between 50 and 75%. Now, I anticipate it going lower than that.



To contribute otherwise, I noticed that the bees are more automatic now. I'm usually the intimitank in the middle, and before the patch I rarely got the bees (haha, that sounds funny). These two times through, it seemed like I couldn't avoid getting them. I wasn't paying attention to my saving throws, but I'd have had to be rolling abysmally across two runs in order to have been hit successfully with the bees so many times unless they raised the numbers on that as well. (saves are all 30+ with buffs, fort might be around 40).

[7-day_Trial_Monkey]

I've only ever pugged, and I never saw a failure on the hound before mod 8. It was always boring, and short. If you were not a charmer, the tank or a cleric, you likely spent most of the quest doing absolutely nothing.

It's a much more interesting and balanced situation now.

[Kronik]

glad to see this post. I though it was just me after failing 2 times in a row this weekend!

[Rog]

Although amusingly, most PUGs seemed BARELY capable of doing it on norm, as sad as this is. I can't even imagine PUG-ing this raid now - and quite frankly see myself avoiding it entirely unless it's primarily people I know from this point out.

i pug the raid every 3 days most pugs dont have the uberness to do hard, but i am going for 20. i did change my strat. to conform with the new raid standards but on normal i can take a first time pugger raid and complete it everytime normal still a pretty easy raid!
mojomuscle

[Newtons_Apple]

Although amusingly, most PUGs seemed BARELY capable of doing it on norm, as sad as this is. I can't even imagine PUG-ing this raid now - and quite frankly see myself avoiding it entirely unless it's primarily people I know from this point out.

/signed I'm just glad I got my rogue and barb their chain shirts, my cleric his necklace and my caster his ring...

[suitepotato]

I have noticed two definite changes in VOD as well - this is on elite. 1. Sulu has a much higher to-hit. Really only the highest of high ac characters can tank him exceedingly well and make him miss a great deal (basically a 6 ranger monk splash rest whatever with all the gear and all the buffs will still get hit 10-20% of the time). Having barbarians with their high dr and more hit points or just high hit point characters is a much better option then it was in the past for tanking sulu. 2. Sulu has more hit points so the fight takes longer.

This is likely because Sulu just got married and his self-esteem is a lot higher. Consequently, he's much more on the ball, and liable to fight better, much like that time he ran around stripped to the waist and brandishing a rapier.

[Newtons_Apple]

This is likely because Sulu just got married and his self-esteem is a lot higher. Consequently, he's much more on the ball, and liable to fight better, much like that time he ran around stripped to the waist and brandishing a rapier.

It's real nice you have such a romantic view of marriage. More than likely he's actually really ****ed off, since he didn't spot the little clause his dearly betrothed snuck into his pre-nup giving her absolute dominion over all kobolds...

[Osharan_Tregarth]

Per a Developer post in response to a similar thread, one acknowledged change is that the Hound now has the intended size (Gargantuan IIRC) and that size is figured in the Intimidate check.

Ummm.. That size penalty had always been there. The dev was just confirming that it was due to size differences, and not some other arcane thingamabobber.

[Impaqt]

Ummm.. That size penalty had always been there. The dev was just confirming that it was due to size differences, and not some other arcane thingamabobber.

QFT.

DDO has always factored size intoIntimidate checks.. Well. For as long as I've been playing an Intimitank anyway.. (Little over a year with my Intimitank)

THe hounds Intim DC was significantly increased(What Does Intim Check against? The intimee's Intim Skill?) with Mod 8.

Bumped rediculously high IMO. I fail to see why the devs felt it necessary to take aqway this more than reasonable tactic in this raid. My Intimitank used to fail only on a 3.. Now I gotta roll a 16 or so.....

[MrCow]

What Does Intim Check against? The intimee's Intim Skill?

Monster's Hit Dice + Monster's WIS modifier + Monster's Size
vs.
Your Intimidation skill + 1d20 roll

Considering a few things I have heard and know I'm guessing they bumped up Xyzzy's WIS by about 25. The evidence being:

• Renders and some other evil outsiders use WIS as a casting stat (even though it is normally CHA for innate casting).
• The DC of bees, horrid wilting, and other things went up on Xyzzy.
• The Intimidation DC is now higher.

[TreknaQudane]

QFT.

DDO has always factored size intoIntimidate checks.. Well. For as long as I've been playing an Intimitank anyway.. (Little over a year with my Intimitank)

THe hounds Intim DC was significantly increased(What Does Intim Check against? The intimee's Intim Skill?) with Mod 8.

Bumped rediculously high IMO. I fail to see why the devs felt it necessary to take aqway this more than reasonable tactic in this raid. My Intimitank used to fail only on a 3.. Now I gotta roll a 16 or so.....

I'd probably guess will save