Shattermantle and Raid Bosses

[Angelus_dead]

Actually, non-maximized Magic Missile is more efficient in terms of damage per mana than anything other than max-emped-glaciation8'ed Polar Ray or Acid Fog, but the Arraetrikos fight is now so quick that casters can't go through all their SP spamming MM.

How?

Magic Missile is 5 shots of 3-5 damage each, or 20 total. If you have Super Potency I and Force IV (a really unpopular enhancement) then it's multiplied by 1.9, coming to 38. Without metamagic that costs 10 sp, so 3.8 dpm (damage per mana).

Instead if I use Chain Lightning, that's one shot of 16*5 damage, which is 80 or 40 on a successful save. Super Pot VI and Energy IV bring it to 40 * 1.9 = 76. 76 damage for 35 mana is 2.2 dpm. I'll add Empower for 15 - 6 enhancement - 2 thelis = 7 sp. Then I add Maximize for 25 - 6 enh - 2 glove = 14 sp.
So for 35+7+14=56 sp that does 76 * 3 = 228 hp, or 228/56 = 4.1 dpm.

So even if Arraetrikos always saves, 952 sp of Chain Lightning will be 3900 damage, while 950 sp of Magic Missile is 3610 damage. The more saves he fails, the more Chain Lightning wins.


And as for Polar Ray: 16*5 = 80 damage. With only normal Glaciation (20) instead of Superior (50), the multiplier is 80 * 1.6 * 2 * 1.5 = 384. The cost is 45+7+14 = 66 sp, giving 5.8 dpm. (Actually a little less, because Arraetrikos has some cold resist). Chain Lightning would beat that if he failed the saves enough, but his reflex is good.

[tinyelvis]

The easy way to do this would be to fight for a bit and then everyone DDoor out and count up their damage.
Wrong. That is NOT easy, not even close.

This is easy.
1. Begin attacking Arraetrikos
2. After 30 - 60 seconds everyone stops attacking
3. Make a mental note of his hit point bar
4. Run and throw up a DDoor
5. Dead or alive, look in your combat log and add up the points.
6. Compare total to percentage damage on him and calculate his total points.

Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
Actually, non-maximized Magic Missile is more efficient in terms of damage per mana than anything other than max-emped-glaciation8'ed Polar Ray or Acid Fog, but the Arraetrikos fight is now so quick that casters can't go through all their SP spamming MM.
How?

First off lets do a more accurate analysis for Chain Lightning
(Using SPot, Max enh, Emp, Max, Lore Item,glacial items,Thelis ring)

As you did assume a failed save:
Base: 5.5*16= 44
SPot/Enh (1.9) = 83.6
Emp/Max (2.5) = 209
Crit (2.75) = 574 <----- leaving out criticals would result in a pointless analysis

Ok assuming we have 2000 SP for combat use and CL costs 56 then we have
35 shots
29 normal for 6061
6 critical (18% or less) for 3444
Total damage = 9505
Mana efficiency 9505/2000 = 4.75 <---- Look its even higher than you calculated


OK now look at mm
(using just SPot and Lore item)

Base: 4.5*5 = 22.5
Spot/Enh (1.9) = 42.75
Crit (2.75) = 117.56

Again 2000 Sp's for
200 shots
164 Normal for 7011
36 Crits for 4232
Total = 11243
Mana Efficiency 11246/2000 = 5.623 <--- much higher

Of course this is silly though, if you had those magic items you would use polar ray which just barely beats mm out for high spot.

Chain lightning is great spell if you are going to do a lot of PVP. However, Polar ray is what you use against Arraetrikos. In PVP, Polar ray needs much much much more skill to use and aim. Only a very very advanced player could compete against the idiot proof autoaim chain lightning.

Now, mm is great all purpose choice for enhancement specialization for a number of reasons,

1: You dont have to max out enhancements to get a big percentage of benefit like you do with Elect/Acid. This leaves more points for Fire/Ice or other enhancements.

2: Disintegrate can be used to fill in holes in your arsenal, and Force Manipulation modifies this spell. Hell, if you can bypass a bosses saves and Polar ray does not work, why would you ever use a lightning spell over this?

3: Magic missiles can fire around corners, a nice touch when solo'n in really tough areas like the subterran.

4: Normal mm attract next to no aggro in party play and can be fired 100% accurate on the move. Lightning will often attract Arraey's attention even causing potential slow down in attack or death.

5. A lore item and superior potency in high level quests drop as often as American Annual SAT scores. Even the most inexperienced caster can pump out one of the most efficient and damages attack in the game at low cost. To make Polar Ray perform top knotch ( not to mention the inferior Lightning ) one needs to collect some **** rare bounded items. Not to mention potentially getting a tier III item to bump stats up for better DC if needed.

6: This is an advanced technique, using Glacial gloves and Imp Max III, you can cast a maximized magic missile for only two more points than it would cost to cast two normal mm's. This will double your DPS and is probably the hands down, with no contender close, 1 round defeat attack for a caster to use against Arraey. I may be wrong but I do believe no-one can put this much damage out this fast with any other spell in one part IV round of attacks. This is essentially equivalent to a quicken spell on your mm for the cost of only 1 extra point. Since I can cast 4 or 5 magic missiles in the time it takes to cast 2 chain lightnings, and these do double the damage.....think how much more damage and more valuable a mm using caster will be. Completely blows CL out of the water, so best choice for the Experienced and inexperience party.

[SableShadow]

BONUS TIP: If you're willing to carry extra weapons to help debuff raid bosses, then skip Shattermantle and get a weapon of Strength Sapping. It has a fortitude save, so it will take an average of 20 hits for it to apply to a raid boss, but when it does he loses -3 attack and damage for a long long time. It's well worth it on Suulomades.

Excellent tip. I tossed a Strength Sapper into my off-hand and got Arraetrikos exhausted in no time. I usually get beaten up quite badly in there during melee, even w/ great clerics and/or strapping on a shield and boosting...but this time it was almost routine.

Had to keep it in the off-hand, though, instead of swapping a more damaging weapon into the offhand because we started taking heavier hits again when the exhaustion wore off...so, had to keep applying it, basically.

[Strakeln]

MM is a highly underrated spell, I don't think my sorc will ever drop it (or the force damage enhancement line). Don't carry any force crit lines though.

[dageth]

OK now look at mm
(using just SPot and Lore item)

Base: 4.5*5 = 22.5
Spot/Enh (1.9) = 42.75
Crit (2.75) = 117.56

Again 2000 Sp's for
200 shots
164 Normal for 7011
36 Crits for 4232
Total = 11243
Mana Efficiency 11246/2000 = 5.623 <--- much higher

What magic missiles are you using and where can I get some?

My MM use 1d4+1, have a damage range of 2-5, and an average damage of (2+3+4+5 = 14 /4 =) 3.5 per hit....

Base: 3.5*5 = 17.5
Spot/Enh (1.9) = 33.25
Crit (2.75) = 91.44

Again 2000 Sp's for
200 shots
164 Normal for 5453
36 Crits for 3292
Total = 8745
Mana Efficiency 8744/2000 = 4.3725

[tinyelvis]

What magic missiles are you using and where can I get some?

mm is a spell that is available to wizards and sorcerers. These are character classes in the DDO world. The sorcerer has lots of spell points and casts faster with higher DPS while the wizard in general has few spell points and cast slow as molasses. However, the wizard makes up for these crippling deficits by being able to do that thing that is extremely critical to the completion of almost all quests and raids. You guessed it, he has been blessed with the ability to swap out spells at bars and rest shrines. Imagine how many party wipes you can avoid with this supreme ability.

Any rate, I digress. You can get the mm spell by selecting it as one of your own as a wizard or sorcerer. Any more questions? Please, no question is a dumb question.

The mistake you made my friend is trusting what turbine tells you rather than your own eyes or brain. If you have a spell caster, take him and his mm spell to Threnal and start wailing on giants. You only have to look in your combat log to see the truth.

I suppose the next thing your gonna tell me is that the DC for a spell save is 10 plus effective spell level plus the relevant ability modifier....haha imagine that. Some of you guys have been around for a long time to not know these things.

[dageth]

mm is a spell that is available to wizards and sorcerers. These are character classes in the DDO world. The sorcerer has lots of spell points and casts faster with higher DPS while the wizard in general has few spell points and cast slow as molasses. However, the wizard makes up for these crippling deficits by being able to do that thing that is extremely critical to the completion of almost all quests and raids. You guessed it, he has been blessed with the ability to swap out spells at bars and rest shrines. Imagine how many party wipes you can avoid with this supreme ability.

Any rate, I digress. You can get the mm spell by selecting it as one of your own as a wizard or sorcerer. Any more questions? Please, no question is a dumb question.

The mistake you made my friend is trusting what turbine tells you rather than your own eyes or brain. If you have a spell caster, take him and his mm spell to Threnal and start wailing on giants. You only have to look in your combat log to see the truth.

I suppose the next thing your gonna tell me is that the DC for a spell save is 10 plus effective spell level plus the relevant ability modifier....haha imagine that. Some of you guys have been around for a long time to not know these things.

Thanks for clarifying what the Magic Missile spell is for those not in the know, and providing a succinct comparison of the Wizard and Sorcerer class differences. I am sure that anyone who is new to the game who runs across this thread with be greatly edified by your efforts.

Having played a sorc since a few months after retail release, I am aware that sometimes the DDO damage dice do not reflect spell descriptions, or at least, not accurately. Fireball, for instance, is supposed to use d6's, but instead appears to use d3's - doing so raises the minimum and average damage, but does not raise the maximum above the expected level.

I suppose I should have thought a bit more in my example, since I have never seen Magic Missile do 2 points of damage. The minimum that I recall (I am ashamed to admit to still be patching last night and unable to test to verify, a terrible failing to be sure but I take small comfort that, like me, not everyone is able to dedicate DDO as a maximal priority point in their life) has always been 3, suggesting that the DDO MM damage is actually 1d3+2. This returns values of 3, 4 & 5, which - when following basic averaging mathematics gives a mean of 4 points (3+4+5=12, 12/3=4).

Which is still less than the 4.5 value you used above.

Base: 4*5 = 20
Spot/Enh (1.9) = 38
Crit (2.75) = 104.5

Again 2000 Sp's for
200 shots
164 Normal for 6232
36 Crits for 3762
Total = 9994
Mana Efficiency 9994/2000 = 4.997

While I agree that this is higher than the Chain Lighting example, it is by a much more marginal amount. As the CL example appears to assume that all saves were made, should the target fail to save even a few times during the course of 2000 SP's being dumped into them then this marginal advantage may well not only be eroded but surpassed.

We could begin to talk about casting times and damage/second, but I digress.

My original point was that I am still curious to know how you are achieving a base damage of 4.5 per magic missile.

And while I have not extensively researched, tested and conducted due trials and received approbations from developers regarding the actual, DDO, methodology to determine DC's for spell saves...I would love to examine your research. In case others may be of like mind, I request that you publicly share your data points, for the enlightenment and edification of all.

Yours gregariously...

[tinyelvis]

Take off your buffs go to Threnal and cast mm on giants. Look in your log. You will either do 4 or 5 points on a non-crit damage. Threnal is the place I test all my damage spells.

You could also go to the wiki where they point this out too (1d2+3).
http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Magic_Missile

4.5 is average expected base damage.

It is also my belief that elemental spells like chain lightning, cone of cold, ...polar ray do for each dice damage (1d2+4).

5.5 base damage per die.