Looking for intimitank build

[WeaselKing]

Looking for a warforged tank build with, in this order. High:

1) DR (have some pretty good ideas how to get this up to 65+ situationally)

2) Intimidate skill

3) HP

4) AC

5) DPS (or at least a decent to-hit for some stat damagers)

Any suggestions?

Kinda lost on tanks, I do casters and utility characters.

[WeaselKing]

Was thinking I wouldn't care about DPS if I could get a pretty good Trip going on instead.

[Ghoste]

Was thinking I wouldn't care about DPS if I could get a pretty good Trip going on instead.

Got a +2 frost dagger of vertigo 10 for you if you go that path. Can you imagine a little wf rushing a giant and swinging that little toothpick at the giant who just falls over on his butt like a dumptruck just slammed into him?

Starting stats that I used for Draugr were 18 str, 16 con, 13 dex and int.
Improved trip, stunning blow, sap, couple shield masteries, and the rest of his feats into toughness. With Lorrik's defender he'll have 30 DR unbuffed, 60 with titan shield going, 50 when he's actively intimidating mobs and setting off defiance. 428 standing HP, will have even more when warforged toughness enhancements go live, and would have had a few more had he gone pure fighter instead of taking the level of wiz. His trip is unsavable against by almost all monsters, and stunning blow dc is 38, higher than the save you'll find on any caster's finger of death (and sap to back that up, with no save).

On the downside his AC sucks and his intmidate could be a little bit higher (low cha).

[Hirosue]

its not a very good idea to make a high intimidate character that gets all the agro and attempts to mitigate it by damage reduction.

its an even worse idea to do this as a Wf .For the simple reason that you

will be getting all the agro from the mobs from your intimidate but have no Ac so will be getting hit by all the mobs all the time . even with damage reduction you are basically going to be a super mana sponge.and when the cleric runs out of mana u die.Add in the 50% neg from heals until you spend enhancements or get rare items to mitigate the 50% neg to heals for being WF and you have a truely nightmareish character to play , and a nightmare for the healers to keep upright too.

Its an interesting idea in principle ,but i think you will rapidly discover that the healers wont be able to keep up with the damage you are taking.And after a few fights in the quest most clerics will rapidly conclude that its in the groups interest just to let you die rather than use all their heals tryng to keep you up.

and of course dont forget that a DR intimidator will be vastly inferior to an AC intimidator by reson that the AC intimidator will not ( or should not ) need constant healing to be able to perform its role.

if you want to make an intimidator get some armour class.

[Sillk]

I was working on a build and tho it's not done yet, it sounds like something you're working toward. Maybe with some help from the forum, it'll get bug proofed. I built this at work on paper and haven't yet put it into the character builder, so there may be some inaccuracies.

This build uses some of Illuminati's builds as a starting point, and attempts to combine Evasion, DR and DPS to maintain Aggro, as well as some crowd control once you have the aggro.

I've only put 1 tome on this character, to make it commonly available to anyone. Obviously +2 tomes etc would always help. The only gear planned so far is the Docent of Defiance, and the shield from the Reaver Raid. If anyone wants to enter all the "optimal" gear for the highest possible AC, HP, etc. feel free.

Stats
28 Str 16 (+6 item, +2 Enhancement, +4 Level)
20 Dex 13 (or better) +6 Item, +1 Enhancement)
22 Con 14 (+6 Item, +2 Enhancement)
14 Int 13 (+1 tome at level 1)
14 Wis 8 (+6 item)
18 Cha 12 (+6 Item)

I may have the 32 point build short a few points, the leftovers would go into Dex for AC. The int tome is to help with skill points.

Level Progression
1 Rogue1 Mithral Body
2 Fighter1 Khopesh
3 Paladin1 Shield Mastery
4 Fighter2 Toughness
5 Fighter3
6 Fighter4 Stunning Blow, Improved Critical - Slash
7 Paladin2
8 Paladin3
9 Paladin4 Power Attack
10 Paladin5
11 Paladin6 (Pick up Divine Righteousness enhancement)
12 Rogue2 Combat Expertise
13 Fighter5
14 Fighter6 Cleave
15 Fighter7 Improved Sheild Mastery
16 Fighter8 Force of Personality

I'm still deciding if Evasion is worth it or not on this build. Taking 2 levels of Fighter would help you get Great Cleave or something else.

Enhancements
[Warforged] - Brute Fighting IV
[Warforged] - Constitution II
[Warforged] - Healer's Friend I
[Warforged] - Tactics III
[Rogue] - Dexterity I
[Fighter] - Critical Accuracy I
[Fighter] - Haste Boost I
[Fighter] - Intimidate II
[Fighter] - Strategy (Stunning Blow) III
[Fighter] - Strategy (Trip) III
[Fighter] - Strength II
[Fighter] - Toughness III
[Paladin] - Bulward of Good I
[Paladin] - Divine Righteousness I

* [Paladin] - Charisma II would be good to respec once you have taken the Force of Personality feat. Also look at Tower Shield Mastery, Healer's Friend II, Paladin Resistance.

[Ghoste]

its not a very good idea to make a high intimidate character that gets all the agro and attempts to mitigate it by damage reduction.

its an even worse idea to do this as a Wf .For the simple reason that you

will be getting all the agro from the mobs from your intimidate but have no Ac so will be getting hit by all the mobs all the time . even with damage reduction you are basically going to be a super mana sponge.and when the cleric runs out of mana u die.Add in the 50% neg from heals until you spend enhancements or get rare items to mitigate the 50% neg to heals for being WF and you have a truely nightmareish character to play , and a nightmare for the healers to keep upright too.

Its an interesting idea in principle ,but i think you will rapidly discover that the healers wont be able to keep up with the damage you are taking.And after a few fights in the quest most clerics will rapidly conclude that its in the groups interest just to let you die rather than use all their heals tryng to keep you up.

and of course dont forget that a DR intimidator will be vastly inferior to an AC intimidator by reson that the AC intimidator will not ( or should not ) need constant healing to be able to perform its role.

if you want to make an intimidator get some armour class.

With the propper debuffs, most wizards could wand heal a wf tank with 50-60 DR being attacked by the Shroud or VoD raid bosses. Healing wouldnt even be necessary for said tank versus some of the other raid bosses (again with propper debuffs). As far as non named monsters, that's where the tactics come in. Most monsters only get one hit, if any at all, against a strong tactics build. Speaking from experience with such a build, it requires suprisingly very little healing.

Also, the op is someone who runs with a lot of wf arcanes. So to presume that he cares at all about clerics' inneptitude to heal him is unecessary.

[Hirosue]

Looking for a warforged tank build with, in this order. High:

1) DR (have some pretty good ideas how to get this up to 65+ situationally)

2) Intimidate skill

3) HP

4) AC

5) DPS (or at least a decent to-hit for some stat damagers)

Any suggestions?

Kinda lost on tanks, I do casters and utility characters.

I think what the Op is asking for is an intimidator that gets all the agro then mitigates damage by using Warforged Damage reduction enhancements and takes multiple Improved damage reduction feats. i.e adamantine body feat ,improved damage reduction feat multiple times ,shiled mastery, improved shiled mastery , then enhancement 3 wf damage reduction etc,etc .

gets a tower shiled intimidates blocks and survives by having damage reduction rather than AC.which as i posted above probably wouldnt work for very long as its basically only going to stay upright with constant healing.

a DR of 50 is only going to save him from 50 damage and with multiple mobs hitting for more than 50 his health will rapidly diminish . or he can make an intimidator with armour class that doesnt get hit and so requires little or no healing. As a cleric i know which type of intimidator i would prefer to have in a party. Also dont forget that this aim of 50 Dr is going to be end game achievable only and very reliant on stoneskin, blur, displacement and so on to keep it going..

Who is going to pay the price of the healing while it levels up from 1-14 level ? And who is going to pay to keep it buffed and upright in end game conntent. So yes its possible to do it. But an AC intimidator can do the job just as well with a lot less babysitting.

[Ghoste]

The op has seen a tank in action with low ac, high DR (and the wf dr enhancements are a joke. Buy stoneskin wands and you're already better off) and high tactics (which he mentions in the second post) who takes a lot less dmg than you are claiming. Not many un-named mobs hit for more than 50 dmg, and the build I recomended rarely gives them a chance to hit attack anyways. With a good caster, raid bosses wont hit for much more than that, if they even hit for that much. If you still dont believe the effectiveness of that path, then consider this an open invitation to run a high ac tank through the Subterane with Draugr. See who gets to the east portal solo without any healing.

[Sillk]

Ghoste - it sounds like you're referring to a specific build... is it posted? If so, can you post the link?

[Ghoste]

Ghoste - it sounds like you're referring to a specific build... is it posted? If so, can you post the link?

Post #3 pretty much sums it up without giving a point for point walkthrough of the build. It's not posted on the forums in any more detail than that.

[Hirosue]

so with high end raid gear, a dedicated wizard casting the propper debuffs on mobs and casting stonekin .blur .displace . repair on him all at the appropriate time and of course waitng until end game to actually get dr to a high point this is a good build idea ?

So we have an intimidator thats going to reply on mages to make it work, other player gold to supply repair and stonekin . As i said its an interesting build concept but will be a nightmare to level up. especially for anyone who groups with it. especially for us inept clerics. and of course the servers are full of GOOD mages running around who love to heal WF .

and this build may be superior to armourclass based intimidators in 1 or 2 raids . wow , cannt wait to group with it.

by the way i have wf ,arcanes, barbarians ,fighter , dwarf and human Ac tanks .as well as clerics

[Ghoste]

so with high end raid gear,

Which is exactly what you will need to get an ac based tank that wont be getting constantly hit by raid bosses.

And no he wasnt a nightmare to level up. Just pick up a vertigo and a weighted weapon off the AH and he takes very little damage from anything other than red/purple named bosses, and not a whole lot from them. +5 tower shield and docent of defiance, not a single piece of raid loot, and a DR build will take a lot less damage from red names than an ac build that also has no raid loot. Granted the raid loot helps raise the DR even more.

Do you ever run without a wizard? Any wizard can load up ray of enfeeblement and waves of exhaustion, or any other spell that you explain will make a reasonable difference. So dedicated wizard? Not at all. Although the op does have that. Blur and displacement? You're putting words in my mouth now. Stoneskin? My build buys and uses the wands himself. So again, no need for a dedicated wizard. Although with defiance (not raid gear) going non stop when fighting raid bosses, stoneskin is moot.

Again, standing invitation. Show me what your high armor class non wf can do, I'll show you what DR, tactics, and wf can do. Even if you impress me with your build, at the very least you'll be shocked at how little healing mine takes.

And name one raid boss that wont be hitting any armor class build fairly frequently without, in your own words, "high end raid gear", or without other dedicated players to rely on for other ac boosts. Given that they'll all be hitting what you're suggesting, no, not just 1 or 2 raid bosses, all of them. If they're going to hit you anyways, may as well not be hitting you very hard.

[hu-flung-pu]

Nevermind, looks like ghoste can handle himself.

[Ghoste]

What makes you think he's not casting all those buff's himself? All those buffs come on wands.

And the Warforged feat and enhancement selections should stack with the Stoneskin spell. If it's not that's a bug that needs to be looked at, unless some can explain why spell enchantments don't stack with feats and enhancements anymore?

They don't and shouldn't stack. Highest passive DR stacks with active DR. That's it. So the ability to use a stoneskin wand, or any other source of passive DR (defiance, titan shield, etc.) render the wf enhancements pretty much useless. The only enhancements that would boost that would be if they gave wf the same shield mastery enhancements that dorfs have, since that is active DR.

[Hirosue]

Which is exactly what you will need to get an ac based tank that wont be getting constantly hit by raid bosses.

And no he wasnt a nightmare to level up. Just pick up a vertigo and a weighted weapon off the AH and he takes very little damage from anything other than red/purple named bosses, and not a whole lot from them. +5 tower shield and docent of defiance, not a single piece of raid loot, and a DR build will take a lot less damage from red names than an ac build that also has no raid loot. Granted the raid loot helps raise the DR even more.

Do you ever run without a wizard? Any wizard can load up ray of enfeeblement and waves of exhaustion, or any other spell that you explain will make a reasonable difference. So dedicated wizard? Not at all. Although the op does have that. Blur and displacement? You're putting words in my mouth now. Stoneskin? My build buys and uses the wands himself. So again, no need for a dedicated wizard. Although with defiance (not raid gear) going non stop when fighting raid bosses, stoneskin is moot.

Again, standing invitation. Show me what your high armor class non wf can do, I'll show you what DR, tactics, and wf can do. Even if you impress me with your build, at the very least you'll be shocked at how little healing mine takes.

And name one raid boss that wont be hitting any armor class build fairly frequently without, in your own words, "high end raid gear", or without other dedicated to rely on for other ac boosts. Given that they'll all be hitting what you're suggesting, no, not just 1 or 2 raid bosses, all of them. If they're going to hit you anyways, may as well not be hitting you very hard.

LOl , firstly i have no interest at all in participating in your stupid my build is better than you build nonscense.
Every point i made is perfectly reasonable, fair and valid.
Flame , all you like , troll all you like , challenge all you like.
the simple facts are that a dr based intimidator is going to have a hard time of it as he levels up compared to an Ac based intimidator. Wont make any friends as it levels up . and everything it can do can be done equally well by an Ac based build.

im not telling the OP not to make it . by all means go ahead . this games about playing for fun and trying out new things. I was simply high lighting to the Op the pitfalls of this build .where as it seams that all you want to do is tell the OP how uber and superior to Ac types it will be at lvl 16.And of course argue the toss with anyone who dares have a different opinion to yourself.

keep flaming trolling and challenging. i wont bother adding any more fuel here.

[hu-flung-pu]

It does grant 10/adamantine DR still right?

That should stack with the 9/adamantine you should potentially be able to get.


Now things like the docent of defiance and other types of DR I know shouldn't stack with adamantine, but I was always under the assumption "like" for "like" stacked when it came to DR. Is this all new developments or the way it's always been?

It renders all those Warforged feats and enhancements completely useless.

[Ghoste]

LOl , firstly i have no interest at all in participating in your stupid my build is better than you build nonscense.
Every point i made is perfectly reasonable, fair and valid.
Flame , all you like , troll all you like , challenge all you like.
the simple facts are that a dr based intimidator is going to have a hard time of it as he levels up compared to an Ac based intimidator. Wont make any friends as it levels up . and everything it can do can be done equally well by an Ac based build.

im not telling the OP not to make it . by all means go ahead . this games about playing for fun and trying out new things. I was simply high lighting to the Op the pitfalls of this build .where as it seams that all you want to do is tell the OP how uber and superior to Ac types it will be at lvl 16.And of course argue the toss with anyone who dares have a different opinion to yourself.

which is a joke.

Facts? First of all, I'm not just talking about a DR only build. You keep leaving out the tactics - a very vital part of this build, especially with levelling up. You also leave out the fact that I have levelled up the DR build in question, and it was quite easy. So either I hacked the game, or the facts ar not what you state. Secondly, it's unfortunate that you took my challenge as a p***ing contest. You clearly don't see the merits of the build in question, I offer at the very least to show them to you. Not to mention my offer to give you the opportunity to convince me that AC is actually useful, because I have yet to see any solid melee character show me otherwise (even ones who had "high end raid loot"). Take it as a challenge to broaden your outlook on various build strategies. You don't want to see it? Whatever. At least be aware that the op has. So telling him about weaknesses that aren't actually there is something he will see right through.

[Ghoste]

It does grant 10/adamantine DR still right?

That should stack with the 9/adamantine you should potentially be able to get.


Now things like the docent of defiance and other types of DR I know shouldn't stack with adamantine, but I was always under the assumption "like" for "like" stacked when it came to DR. Is this all new developments or the way it's always been?

It renders all those Warforged feats and enhancements completely useless.

Depends how many feats and enhancements you want to sacrifice.

There is an article in the DDO wiki that explains how total DR is calculated. Like for like only stacks with feats and enhancements, and only with each other, not with spells or item effects.

[Ghoste]

And can the accusations of flaming and trolling. Playing the false sympathy card is not going to help anyone weigh the options being considered in this thread.

As far as my challenge, I honeslty don't mind my build being picked apart. I just think you'd do a WAY better job of doing so after seeing it in action. I'm biased for the build and I can still do a better job of picking apart my own build based on its ACTUAL weaknesses.

I was simply high lighting to the Op the pitfalls of this build .where as it seams that all you want to do is tell the OP how uber and superior to Ac types it will be at lvl 16.

You mean like saying something like this:

...and of course dont forget that a DR intimidator will be vastly inferior to an AC intimidator...

You sure you were reading what I said, not what you yourself said?

[Lewcipher]

so with high end raid gear, a dedicated wizard casting the propper debuffs on mobs and casting stonekin .blur .displace . repair on him all at the appropriate time and of course waitng until end game to actually get dr to a high point this is a good build idea ?

So we have an intimidator thats going to reply on mages to make it work, other player gold to supply repair and stonekin . As i said its an interesting build concept but will be a nightmare to level up. especially for anyone who groups with it. especially for us inept clerics. and of course the servers are full of GOOD mages running around who love to heal WF .

and this build may be superior to armourclass based intimidators in 1 or 2 raids . wow , cannt wait to group with it.

by the way i have wf ,arcanes, barbarians ,fighter , dwarf and human Ac tanks .as well as clerics

Umm I always have reconstruct up on my DROW wizard. It's amazin' when you run with a couple of warforged how well the healing can split up.

Ghoste has it pegged pretty good. AC ain't everything. DR ain't everything. Tactics need to be used with both.