Black Abbot Anniversary

[Angelus_dead]

Congratulations Turbine. It's a major milestone- the one year anniversary of the unplayable Black Abbot raid. That has to be some kind of global record. Some games have harder sections or stupider sections, of course, but those are either not places meant to be playable, not games that are actively updated, or not targetted at a semi-casual mass audience. Naturally there is some room to quibble on what it means to be "unplayable" and how that differs from "unbeatable" (because it's certainly beatable, as literally dozens of victories have shown). But in the overall analysis, attempting to beat the Accursed Ascension raid is so far from any kind of "playing" as to easily cinch a title.

Following is collected history on this special achievement. (Some dates are inexact)

Prelude
07-06-06 Titan raid released.
08-16-06 Litany of the Dead 1 released. Widely disliked due to flaws that are serious, but not inherent or pervasive.
10-23-06 Titan raid beaten.
This sets a record for the longest time any of Turbine's quests has gone un-beaten, which took a stupifying effort by the group and a lot of guesswork and luck.
10-25-06 Titan raid fixed to be reasonably beatable (laser can now strike his body, etc)
10-25-06 Laliat raid released.
10-30-06 Laliat raid beaten
12-10-06 Laliat raid soloed (first by a ranger). This remains uncommon, especially for non-rangers, but mostly due to the lengthy re-flagging quests.
01-23-07 Litany2 released, to more dislike than the first part.
04-12-07 Reaver raid is released (Litany3).
04-15-07 Reaver raid is beaten. Possibly devs had wanted it to take longer.
05-05-07 Reaver raid is soloed (first by a wizard). A gradually accelerating trend develops for many players to do this, due to the free spellpoints and lack of any reflagging.
07-31-07 Responding to complaints that some raids are beatable solo or in small groups, a developer fatefully promises that the Abbot raid will be impossible without at least 6 players, and not because of scripted requirements, but because the fight is simply hard.

Abbot
09-27-07 Black Abbot raid released.

10-01-07 Black Abbot raid is defeated for the first time.
The key technique is to not attempt any of the three challenges, and for the players sent to them to immediately die and rejoin the main group. Then the Abbot's special attacks can be either ignored (Phase Wraiths), jumped out of (Encase), or mass-healed through (Inferno). Aside from discovering not to waste time on the challenges, recruiting clerics able to heal through Inferno is the greatest challenge (it requires Quicken at minimum), although there are other serious threats.

10-06-07 Mini-patch to add the usual raid lockout timer to the Abbot raid, so it cannot be ransacked in a day.

10-04-07 Exploit is discovered to (slowly) beat the Abbot with no risk or challenge.

10-18-07 Abbot elite is beaten.

10-19-07 Abbot raid patched to be nearly unbeatable. Blatant exploit removed.
The challenges which originally had been a distraction are now obligatory (although players are not told this). The Abbot's special attacks become more dangerous: Encase is inescapable death, while Inferno and Phase Wraiths have doubled damage and deplete spellpoints. The first death penalty is added to DDO, imposing a non-expiring -10 penalty on all ability scores, in this raid only. The Black Abbot's personal combat stats improve (+8 AC, for example).

12-01-07 Players on Japanese server beat the Abbot raid. Date is approximate because reliance on exploits discouraged honest communication.

12-11-07 Parts of the Abbot raid are patched to be more managable. The ice puzzle becomes reasonably beatable, but the other challenges do not.
The mummies and death penalty are mostly removed (replaced with a new game-wide death penalty). A margin of error is added to the Ice Wands so that it no longer requires an internet miracle. The Phase Tiles are given a longer lifespan (10 sec), and a graphical warning before they fade. A long delay is added before the approach of Asteroids (which provides no help towards defeating it correctly, but does give more time to cast an assortment of exploitive spells). The Black Abbot becomes non-immortal once all three challenges are beaten, instead of only when all three are beaten at once (this doesn't matter, because whenever someones beats them it is in the same pass)

01-30-08 Shroud raid released. The questgiver dialog assumes that all characters flagging for the Shroud have already defeated the Black Abbot.
02-10-08 Abbot is beaten on USA servers for the first time since 'nearly unbeatable'.
04-23-08 An exploit which grants a minor chance to survive Asteroids is indirectly nerfed.
06-03-08 VOD and Hound raids are released, which require items from previous raids to unlock. The Abbot raid is notably not included.

06-03-08 The Phase Tiles are nerfed to be walkable nearly all of the time, granting a moderate chance to pass them by luck, although communication from the guide remains barely effective. (A completely brainless straight run has over 5% success rate, and even minor hints increase that)

10-22-08 Today, the one-year anniversary of the broken Abbot raid.

[DaveyCrockett]

Forgot one, 10-19-2008 Oddlived completes his 20th Abbot.

For historical accuracy

[Angelus_dead]

Here is an amusing video of how the original version of the Abbot raid was beaten.

Points of note:

• That Abbot had Flesh to Stone (although I can't notice it being used)
• They make frequent and almost casual use of Raise Dead, which in current DDO would impose crippling death penalties, even outside of raids with increased Dolruhh effects.
• They use Command Undead and Flesh to Stone to maintain long-term CC on the summoned undead. The current Abbot raid deletes and respawns summoned monsters every 30 seconds, making them immune to such tactics.
• The longest parts of the raid are the two teleport passes, when they must wait 5 minutes for the Abbot to return to fighting them. The devs had intended most of that time to be spent waiting for people to solve challenges (particular phase tiles, which might involve a lot of study). Instead, they die and return immediately.
• The clerics are holding Atonement, which grants immunity to Quell, a 60-second suppression of divine spellcasting (holding a two-handed weapon means they can't use scrolls, among other penalties)
• Twice when the Abbot casts Inferno they gather together at the edge to mass-heal through it. Many characters cast Fire Shield during that, and presumably others use Firestorm Greaves.
• When the Abbot casts Encase, it has no top, allowing players to jump right out. (Rarely he could Encase someone who was already airborne, making the box too high to jump over).
  
  Most importantly
• Everyone appears to be having fun.

[Bubbahotepp]

Hey man! At least the preraid is kinda fun.

Seeing the history in black and white makes me sad.

Good post btw.

[Wizzly_Bear]

Here's to still hoping they fix it someday.

[Gol]

what is 10-22 the anniversary of? Your timeline has nothing on 10-22-07.

[Angelus_dead]

what is 10-22 the anniversary of? Your timeline has nothing on 10-22-07.

Yeah, events like a patch sometimes took more than one day, because they'd bring it down, post the notes, bring it up, break the server after 30 minutes, bring it down again, stay up all night trying to fix it... and the date planned for the patch might not even have been when they actually updated in the first place.

The relevant event was listed as 10-19, although that's easily 72 hours off in one direction or the other.

[sirgog]

Here's to still hoping they fix it someday.

/signed.

Watching the Youtube video of the elite abbot run reminded me of how cool that raid was before it was nerfed into suckiness.

[Vorn]

Maybe this was posted last month and is just showing up now due to lag?


Seriously, I've often wondered if this was what the Dev's, particularly Devilmouse, who seemed to be the main guy for the quest, intended. Maybe they really wanted something beyond the reach of most of the population that emphasized having a tight-knit group of commited players who had the time and resources to accomplish the quest?

I've had to try it in pugs and 0/47 without really getting even close (and some folks are in the hundreds I hear) means it's beyond me, both hardware/connection-wise, tactics-wise, and twitch-wise. Which is a pity actually--minority voice--I really enjoyed the whole Necropolis series (except the rat maze one) and the four part LotD pre-raid (except the silly force trap thingy, though it did create some nice tension when it first came out).

I never did understand how the puzzle rooms connected to the plot however. They seemed too contrived from a story perspective.

Just my 2cp.

Happy Anniversary Black Abbot!!

[Angelus_dead]

Maybe this was posted last month and is just showing up now due to lag?

Oh, I didn't consider the original release of the Black Abbot to be fatally broken. It had several serious problems, but it mostly worked. This post was based on the update 5.1 revision, listed as 10-19-07 above. That gave most of a month in between them (although the raid door was closed for a week too)

[esoitl]

Forgot one, 10-19-2008 Oddlived completes his 20th Abbot.

For historical accuracy

Indeed, and if that is the same thread that I read someone else posted about their 20th completion. I assume this wasn't just a 20th SS delayed and posted now so someone out there is beating it presently so I would hardly call it unplayable or unbeatable at the moment.....

Maybe someone will share their secrets as to what they are doing to get completions, I'd be interested as I would love to tackle it even in it's current state and not afraid to give it the old Governemnt try.

[Vorn]

Oh, I didn't consider the original release of the Black Abbot to be fatally broken. It had several serious problems, but it mostly worked. This post was based on the update 5.1 revision, listed as 10-19-07 above. That gave most of a month in between them (although the raid door was closed for a week too)

Fair enough, I was being cheeky. I wasn't of the opinion that it mostly worked even on original release--I didn't see the reason for optional puzzle rooms that were quickly ignored by all the folks I knew who were completing the quest (they ignored the puzzles because just about no one could complete them).

I was also envious that I couldn't get my fighter into the all cleric/caster groups I knew powering through it!

[esoitl]

Maybe this was posted last month and is just showing up now due to lag?


Seriously, I've often wondered if this was what the Dev's, particularly Devilmouse, who seemed to be the main guy for the quest, intended. Maybe they really wanted something beyond the reach of most of the population that emphasized having a tight-knit group of commited players who had the time and resources to accomplish the quest?

I've had to try it in pugs and 0/47 without really getting even close (and some folks are in the hundreds I hear) means it's beyond me, both hardware/connection-wise, tactics-wise, and twitch-wise. Which is a pity actually--minority voice--I really enjoyed the whole Necropolis series (except the rat maze one) and the four part LotD pre-raid (except the silly force trap thingy, though it did create some nice tension when it first came out).

I never did understand how the puzzle rooms connected to the plot however. They seemed too contrived from a story perspective.

Just my 2cp.

Happy Anniversary Black Abbot!!

I can only post my opinion here but I would think that like all good DMs in their days, they were trying to challenge players in such a way that merely getting gear and using it can never achieve. I can't comment on the puzzles and why they are added or how they tie into the story of the Raid but this is where they get that nice deviation from the norm of swing swing swing, outlast a major enemy and win the Raid.

I think it's quite a brilliantly designed quest, even if the implementation and platform it is displayed on can't present the challenge in the apporpriate manner. D&D as far as I'm concerned is all about role-playing, team work, and overcoming challenges by thought instead of always resorting to combat.
I think the Abbott comes close to what they envisioned but it merely doesn't work as well as it should having strict time contraints and in many cases unfamiliarity and limited conversational abilities....

[Vorn]

I can only post my opinion here but I would think that like all good DMs in their days, they were trying to challenge players in such a way that merely getting gear and using it can never achieve. I can't comment on the puzzles and why they are added or how they tie into the story of the Raid but this is where they get that nice deviation from the norm of swing swing swing, outlast a major enemy and win the Raid.
....

The more's the pity IMHO as the whole necropolis series had a bunch of cool stuff that wasn't just swing, swing, swing. Almost every quest had unique tricks/traps/mobs. Poison water, rat mazes, party splits, passing keys through bars, altars to be lit, mobs that are only vulnerable in a special light, underwater mazes, Inferno's very interesting map and porting, an undead LG beholder, switches and so on. Some named treasure items that looked to have been seeded for making the raid quest easier, too.

(I know, I know, most folks hate the necropolis, but I liked it, oh, may I have another deathward please)

Most of the puzzles seemed to fit the quests admirably. I didn't think the puzzles in the Abbot did. An analogy, perhaps not quite right is that the author died right before the conclusion of a series and someone else came in to write the last book from scratch.

[Angelus_dead]

Compiled for your amusement! Nearly every developer statement ever made on the Black Abbot, in one easy-to-read place! Now with minimal commentary from yours truly. Names have been omitted to protect the innocent... although 95% of it is one person, so I betcha can guess. (However, simply because a person dominates the public discussion of a quest doesn't imply he controlled the in-house design choices)

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...2&postcount=43
You'll want a minimum of 6 for the M5 boss. And by 'want', I mean 'you've got no chance without at least 6 competent people that play well and play well together'.
The reaver was intended to be easy with a puzzle in the way of completion. The M5 encounter? Far less so.
You should be able to get a peek at it when Risia patches this week.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...8&postcount=47
I will take this bet!
Edit: I will lower this to 5 minimum because I should cover my bases, but no lower than 5!

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...2&postcount=51
geez now im starting to think theirs 5 levers to be pulled
Haha, no, no simultaneously activated levers or other chicanery.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...3&postcount=56
Bases? So this is another setup like the dragon with a baseball diamond?
5 bases would be a baseball pentagon!

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...0&postcount=59
Hey - I just said no simultaneous lever business (which includes, but is not limited two, pressure plates, doors, killing of disparate targets in sync, and so on). There's all manner of means to make things require more people to do (and most of them involve people working together to achieve some goal that's unpossible for them alone).
If it goes unbeaten for a long time due to people being unable to work together, do I still have to tone it down? =p

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...7&postcount=71
My primary dev box:
16:42:35 up 34 days, 0:40, 1 user
Foiled!

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...7&postcount=77
aye but can you get outta this one?
That would explain the noises my computer makes. Poor thing has to be hot in there.


http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...06#post1342406
In general, "Monster got lucky, you die with no recourse" isn't very good gameplay.
Insane AC? Crazy Saves? Every protective spell in the game? Won't help you, Kai-Teng rolled two 20's in a row.
That doesn't sound very fun.

(That post is indirectly Abbot-relevant, because it demonstrates design philosophy regarding quest failures due to factors outside the player's control and perception)

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...3&postcount=16
Having a completed Sigil does not give you access to the raid.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...8&postcount=26
Gathering all the relics in Gianthold didn't give you raid access either.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...6&postcount=91
Quells need to have fun too.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...76&postcount=1
(Non-developer post, but historically important as it may represent the kinds of player the devs hoped to cater to)
After running the raid about 30-40 times with an extremely talented group, it's pretty clear that this raid is not meant for "casual" gamers.
We have yet to beat even one of the three puzzles one time on any of our runs.
Frustrating? Yes. Fun? Yes. Although the baby steps are tedious and the actual process becomes monotonous. This raid is an extreme challenge and will be completely gratifying once successfully completed.
Here's the thing:
90% of the player base will likely never complete this raid if it is implemented as is. I guarantee a month after Mod 5 goes live (probably sooner than that) the forums will be inundated with whiny posts about how hard the raid is (which is hilarious in light of the thread currently on the forums complaining about how Mod 5 is too easy).
Please don't cave.
Fix the bugs, by all means. There are a couple of bugs with the raid (which we are making known both publicly and through bug reports) that are making the raid difficult for us. Bugs notwithstanding, it's pretty clear that this raid is only for the elite. We need something like that in this game.
We can 2 man VoN 5 and solo Velah without breaking a sweat.
We can solo the Reaver and the DQ in our sleep.
We can 2 man TF and the Titan on elite.
This new raid is special. Please leave its difficulty alone.


http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...7&postcount=13
I don't seem much need to make many changes to the Black Abbot raid after it goes live. Since if you fail a run you can brush yourself off and leap back in, it's much easier to practice learning the raid than the last raid that was originally designed as "tough" - the Warforged Titan. (There will be some changes between what you see on Risia right now and what it'll look like on live, based on some of the feedback we've gathered.)
In retrospect, the Titan probably could have been left alone as well if people didn't give up on it as "impossible". I'm sure many of the people that are beating it now every week could pull off the original Titan encounter.

(Side note: that comment about the Titan is incorrect, and indicates forgetfulness of how bad it was)

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...8&postcount=56
To be fair, he said no switches, levers, or pressure plates.
Technically, none of the side rooms are critical for completion of the raid.

(That is an important post, because it demonstrates a developer promise that was later reneged on)

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...0&postcount=68
And he clarified it a few posts later in the same thread. This is precisely why we normally don't say things like that and have to be annoyingly careful with our phrasing these days, since it always gets taken the wrong way.
If you are insanely uber and incredibly lucky enough, you can technically solo the Black Abbot, as none of the side rooms are absolutely critical to kill him. I don't expect anyone to ever do so, since he's very likely to call the inferno or encase you long before then.
Someone made him invincible after he returns from his "rest" while I wasn't paying attention? I wish they had told me.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...5&postcount=72
There was a bit of a bug where his effects that granted him temporary hitpoints were a bit... excessive.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...5&postcount=85
I'd place the number at greater than 10 times, without some sort of clever exploiting.
I don't think that anyone will defeat the Abbot without completing at least one of the side rooms, but hey, you never know. If someone solos it, it'd be a good idea to fraps it so everyone can see it was a legit kill and proper accolades can be given.
You'll need six to get into the side rooms. At least seven if you want to survive the return trip.

(I really can't guess what is meant by "At least seven")

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...5&postcount=32
Thanks for reporting bugs! Without your reports we wouldn't find such problems!
Please keep in mind that the QA department doesn't respond to bug reports, but each one is reviewed and addressed. You don't need to report it more than once. They receive literally hundreds of reports a week, and responding to them all may just delay the module until Christmas 2109.
Since this thread has spiraled off topic severely, I'm closing it.

(Interesting post because it demonstrates the notorious Abbot Goggle Bug, which is far beyond what's acceptable in a live release, and took forever to even partially fix)

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...0&postcount=34
A very interesting thread with loads of valuable feedback. Carry on, please!

(Indirectly related to rez sickness death penalties, which were first introduced in the Abbot raid)

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...03&postcount=1
* Remember, that just like wearing loose articles on a roller coaster can be dangerous, it may also be unsafe to do so during a recall out of raids. When attempting to guide your team mate across the chasm in the 2nd puzzle room of the raid, please be sure to remove your goggles before recalling after failure or success, as recalling with the goggles equipped could cause your party to become stuck during the loading screen. Should you become effected by this, please log in with a different character, and contact in-game support using the "?" button for assistance. This issue should be fixed in an upcoming patch.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...1&postcount=50
I didn't think it would be done this weekend, I figured it would take a few more days.
Congratulations to everyone involved, very impressive!
*mumbles something about owing JWB a soda for losing the bet*

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...28&postcount=1
We are aware of some issues surrounding the new raid, which may result in an exploitable situation. We have closed the quest so that we may make changes to block the exploits, and hope to have them open again early next week.
We apologize for the inconvenience and thank you for your patience.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=105
We certainly realize that closing this quest and even the existence of the bug was a disappointment to many of you.
Rest assured we're working on fixing it, and we appreciate your patience.
Mystic, yes, there is only one quest closed.
While the quest timer is indeed broken, and we'd prefer not to allow users to repeat the raid over and over, we do not consider that issue alone, a punishable offense. There were other issues that players could use to gain unfair advantage, which were very clearly an exploit, and anyone utilizing would know that it is not allowed, nor meant to be done, and that doing so would be violating the Terms of Service.
I hope this clears up any questions there might be.
Let me remind everyone that discussing details of an exploit, even those no longer available are against the forum guidelines, so lets keep details to yourselves so you can continue posting here

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=109
Nope, not saying that at all.
I'm saying that in that was the situation in THIS case, with the raid timer being non-existent, and ONLY the non-existent raid timer.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...02&postcount=8
We have learned of an issue that if you have abandoned the Raid quest in Module 5, you will not be able to obtain the quest again from the NPC.
For example, if you complete the Abbot raid, wait for your 3 day timer to expire, abandon the quest to remove it from your list, and then talk to the NPC again, he will have nothing to say to you.
We're working on a solution for this issue and apologize for the inconvenience.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...38&postcount=1
# In response to player feedback on the usability of the experience, many small tuning changes have been made to the Black Abbot's Ascension raid.

(That is a very notable post, because it was the entire announcement that the Abbot raid was now broken, couched as if something had been fixed, when really the opposite took place)

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...8&postcount=13
There have been adjustments made to the puzzles. The Phasing Tiles chasm, in particular.
Many other little errors were fixed as well - for instance, the Inferno better matches the platform's shape, and Encase has been completely overhauled so it won't do odd things like "capture" people that run into it.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...8&postcount=30
"Don't die."
Seriously. That's the motivation. Do whatever it takes to survive through the entire encounter.

Death isn't supposed to be the easy way out of situations, despite the typical mechanics in DDO.
We figured a big debuff was better than putting you into a time-out chamber like we did with the Stormreaver. At least this way you can still attempt to complete future puzzles, which have very little emphasis on your stats or skills. (Though feats occasionally help.)
Raids aren't supposed to be easy things that you can waltz in and crush without a lot of practice. There were significant design errors with the original Black Abbot raid. Those have mostly been addressed, and now it's the challenge that it was originally meant to be.
I intend on having new or enhanced items added to the loot list in the future, to properly reward those that meet the challenge.
It's not a bad idea to bring items that increase your lowest attributes above 10 if you plan on dying. +4 items are pretty common.
DDO doesn't kill you if a temporary penalty drops your Constitution to zero. It's a deviation from the core rules, but a little bit kinder. Con damage still will, however.
That there were changes made to the raid was mentioned in the patch notes. Specifics were not detailed as learning the encounter is part of the challenge of a raid, and few people have made an attempt to do so thus far. Those that did attempt to learn the puzzles should find some things easier and less buggy than before.
I do believe that those that persevere will defeat the raid, and some time thereafter everyone else will be farming it as well. It's very much like the Warforged Titan, who was also assumed to be impossible. Bones Combat Brigade proved it wasn't, and at least for this one, there's no pre-raid quest you have to go through to retry the encounter.

(This post is especially notorious, although the "Don't die" comment has been incorrectly maligned. The misconceptions in other comments are much worse, such as "everyone else will be farming it")

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...5&postcount=36
Short and snippy? It's not like that's ALL I wrote. I was asked for the motivation, I gave it.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...3&postcount=50
I like that idea quite a bit.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...2&postcount=69
We'll absolutely be monitoring the progress in the raid, and will make adjustments if necessary.
Things I see as not unlikely are an increase to ice platform lifetimes and the ability to remove Touch of Dolurrh by completing a puzzle, and perhaps some changes to the nature of the debuff.

(Perhaps by reducing its effect on Normal and Hard. I like that idea too.)

(Now THIS post is the bad one. "Adjustments if necessary", indeed!)

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=278
The Inferno is still Fire damage. It was changed to a damage over time style effect rather than one shot damage being applied over and over, which is why the messaging changed.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...24&postcount=9
I agree, looting should absolutely not be prevented. I'll look into the various possible solutions.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=547
Would a system like this (but with any penalties removed on rest) be preferable if we removed XP debt entirely?
(I'm just asking to find out what people think. I don't particularly like our death penalty and wouldn't mind seeing it changed, but I want to know what people think.)
EDIT: Since the thread got merged and I didn't explain what "this" is... The suggestion was "you get -1 to all stats upon dying that can't be removed, except by using a rest shrine or hanging out in a tavern".

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=643
We're listening! We know the changes to the Black Abbott raid are important, and in an effort to organize and keep feedback efficient, please post it here. I will be merging any threads I find on the latest changes to the Black Abbott raid here, so that we can track it better.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=651
Thanks for your feedback and we hope to see you again someday soon!

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=735
I don't actually see any problem with polling the players regarding what they prefer as a death penalty.
I'm surprised anyone would find gathering information about what players want a problem.
Edit:
Note, I'm gathering information. Haven't said there would be any changes to it, but I disagree with the statement that the death penalty in DDO is not flawed, both at cap and below it.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=807
Let's make sure we're keeping attacks out of our discussions. We can have discussions, heated though they may be, without resorting to name calling and insults.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=884
Part of my current plan is:
1) Touch of Dolurrh will be removed upon teleporting to a puzzle, so it won't interfere with it.
2) All of the puzzles will scale based on the difficulty chosen. "Normal" will be easier than

"Hard" or "Elite" (which is remaining unchanged).
3) A rest/rez shrine combo will be added to the central platform upon completion, to ensure that nobody ends up unable to receive loot.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=887
Still -10 to Touch on normal orr.......
"Part of my current plan".
To find out the rest, wait for the appropriate WDA.
Edit: I can't steal all of Quarion's thunder.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...5&postcount=29
The Abbot's fire is not untyped damage, but fire damage. When we changed it into a DoT from a straight damage effect, the messaging changed. Fire shield should cut the damage as expected.
Having the death volumes in the side rooms instead teleport you back to the central platform - I don't see much harm in that on Normal.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...4&postcount=53
Thankfully Codog seems to have found that annoying little bug, with his "stop firing arrows at the ceiling" fix.
I'll look into some of these - he shouldn't use any of his special abilities more than once every 20 seconds, which should make inferno/encase not possible.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...23&postcount=8
The inferno is not untyped damage. It is fire damage. The messaging changed when it became a DoT.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...8&postcount=10
Hopping onto an ice platform as the inferno preps is still a better option though, than trying to brute-force through it.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...2&postcount=48
The phasing tile room isn't random past its initialization. That is - it'll be different each time you go there, but the cycle isn't random.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...24&postcount=8
That's one way to do it.
There are much easier methods to get across the chasm.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...7&postcount=33
I took "memorizing 15x4x15 tile changes hoping to find a path" to imply that you wanted to memorize a twisty path through the chasm room, hence my "there are easier ways" comment - a straight line run, guided by a "mirror" showing you how far to get, and using returning throwing weapons to "safety check" tiles ahead of you are how I'd do it.
It is wise for the mirror to watch the tile cycle a little bit to see which column is easiest, but I didn't say that I expected you to charge blindly into the abyss - just that you don't need to memorize the entire path to identify a viable one.
Currently on normal difficulty, roughly 2/3 of the tiles are "up" at any time. That will become the "hard" difficulty in M7, with "normal" changing to 80% up at any time.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...9&postcount=37
There are some issues with too many simultaneous asteroids being triggered that I'm looking to clear up as well.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...81&postcount=8
1) Is the Abbot supposed to spam inferno upon us reentering the arena after the first try at the puzzles?
Inferno, Encase, and calling his special friends are all abilities he gains after you return from your first attempt at the puzzles.
2) Is the Abbot's inferno supposed to drain SP with some type of curse effect?
Yes.
3) Are the ice wands, boulders and goggles supposed to disappear from our inventory if we die on the platform after successfully completing a puzzle?
Currently they are Destroyed on Death. We have been considering making them Dropped on Death instead.
4) Is the inferno damage supposed to hit us when we are on an ice flow?
The inferno does reach a short distance past the edge of the platforms, much like Wall of Fire does. There's no real easy way to know whether you're "far enough" other than through experience.
5) Can you confirm or deny the that the goggles are supposed to enable us to see some sort of phase spectre that hits us for manna drains and damage or is it to see some phased platform that offers us a safe haven to kill the abbot from?
The goggles aren't for finding a safe haven. Phasing Wraiths do exist.
6) Is the Abbot supposed to send us back to the puzzles if we do not succeed on the first try?
Yes. If his health drops to a point where he will want to regenerate again, he'll teleport people away again and go heal.
7) Is this quest consistently doable on the live servers as it sets now, without exploits and "unusual" tactics?
Yes.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...0&postcount=50
Note that Mantle of Invulnerability can be dispelled. He reapplies it occasionally, and you do have to make the Caster Level check. (At least, until you get Mordenkainen's Disjunction. That will make him sad.)

(That comment happens to be untrue- there is no way to dispel Mantle)

[Angelus_dead]

Most of the puzzles seemed to fit the quests admirably. I didn't think the puzzles in the Abbot did. An analogy, perhaps not quite right is that the author died right before the conclusion of a series and someone else came in to write the last book from scratch.

You are correct that the developer for the Abbot raid was a different person from the guy who did the starting Necropolis quests.

[Aspenor]

I, too, find it disturbing that originally the intent was not to have to solve the puzzles, but that was changed.

Very, very bad form.

Reminds you of the kid that takes his ball and goes home when he doesn't get what he wants.

[Turial]

Happy Birthday!! to our new god and overlord!!

[Angelus_dead]

I, too, find it disturbing that originally the intent was not to have to solve the puzzles, but that was changed.
Very, very bad form.
Reminds you of the kid that takes his ball and goes home when he doesn't get what he wants.

Suppose they were to change that back, and edit the Abbot raid so the boss no longer had a special immortality until the puzzles were done.

In that hypothetical case, what would happen is the quest would become reasonably winnable, so long as you had 4 Quicken Clerics in the group and they were willing to spend in excess of 5 Major Mnemonic Potions each (and probably more). That's what it would take to keep going through the new Inferno, which not only does major damage, but also almost totally erases your spellpoints.

So beating the Abbot would become a matter of building up enough potions to "buy in" for an attempt at the raid, then hoping you get lucky and nobody screws up when it's time to execute. And that's not a really fun way for a raid to work. So, fixing this raid would call for much more than simply reverting to the situation where you could theoretically solo the Abbot if you had infinite hp and sp.

Because of the big expense in in-game rare items, there'd be a ton of bookkeeping to manage the raid. It would be something like +1 AKP per potion you supply, and +3 AKP for playing a cleric. To claim a named item from the chest would require bidding AKP for it, on top of a flat cost regardless of if anyone else was bidding. And worst of all, if the run fails an AKP penalty would have to be applied to whichever player(s) was judged to have made the mistake. We do not want to go there.

[Aspenor]

Suppose they were to change that back, and edit the Abbot raid so the boss no longer had a special immortality until the puzzles were done.

In that hypothetical case, what would happen is the quest would become reasonably winnable, so long as you had 4 Quicken Clerics in the group and they were willing to spend in excess of 5 Major Mnemonic Potions each (and probably more). That's what it would take to keep going through the new Inferno, which not only does major damage, but also almost totally erases your spellpoints.

So beating the Abbot would become a matter of building up enough potions to "buy in" for an attempt at the raid, then hoping you get lucky and nobody screws up when it's time to execute. And that's not a really fun way for a raid to work. So, fixing this raid would call for much more than simply reverting to the situation where you could theoretically solo the Abbot if you had infinite hp and sp.

Agreed, my post wasn't meant to advocate a return, but more to be critical of a previous decision.