Best Greensteel for S+B Paladin?

[arminius]

Am in a quandry over what greensteel items or weapons to make for my paladins.

One is a khopesh user, that's an easy one. Done.

But the others are sword and board, and I don't know what to make for them. They have improved crit on slashing, bludgeoning, and piercing. They aren't specced for dual wielding or two handed fighting. Strength-based.

So I was considering heavy pick first, but possibly one of the high crit/low multipliers like scimitar or rapier. Would probably go scimitar over rapier, since rapiers can take less item damage. Which would you go for? Or would you say to heck with it and go greataxe and be done with it?

They both have the google slot relatively open too. Are there items that are good for a paladin? Most of the good items I have seen relate to casting (n/a for a paladin) or immunities (redundant on a paladin).

It seems like Mineral II or lightning strike weapons are popular for DPS. Am not interested in pos-pos-pos. Any other candidates I might not know about? Why do people seem to shy away from fire or ice? Because of wider immunities? The magma surge does a lot of damage, and the freezing effect seems cool on paper...but then a lot of the effects seem cool on paper but don't turn out.

Am building up ingredients left and right but am stuck on where to go next that would be the best bang for the buck. What do you think?

_

[Mithran]

Radiance II with A/C is really nice. My Ranger/Paladin is only a few days away (I hope) from being able to dual-wield Lightning II and Radiance II Scimitars, and the Radiance II (which is the one I've completed) is just awesome. I went with +++ on my main, and while it's useful/does good dps, I'm wishing in retrospect that I'd gone A/C Radiance II.

[Angelus_dead]

So I was considering heavy pick first, but possibly one of the high crit/low multipliers like scimitar or rapier. Would probably go scimitar over rapier, since rapiers can take less item damage. Which would you go for?

As for pick vs rapier: by itself, those weapons have equal DPS. The base damage is the same, and the crit power is the same: 6*1 = 2*3 (crit power = crit range * (crit mult-1). However, when you add in factors like Seeker items or Paladin enhancements, rapiers or other weapons with a big crit range becomes better.

Look at the impact of Exalted Smite I, II, and III.
None: Rapier 6*1 = 6, Pick 2*3 =6
ES I: Rapier 6*2 = 12, Pick 2*4 = 8
ES II: Rapier 7*2 = 14, Pick 3*4 = 12
ES III: Rapier 7*3 = 21, Pick 3*5 = 15

Clearly, many-crit weapons gain more from smite enhancements than big-crit weapons do. That is backwards from what happens to barbarians when they get Critical Rage.
None: Rapier 6*1 = 6, Pick 2*3 =6
CR I: Rapier 7*1 = 7, Pick 3*3 = 9
CR II: Rapier 8*1 = 8, Pick 4*3 = 12


As for scimitar vs rapier: Don't let the item's durability or hitpoints be a factor at all. The most important thing to consider is that maybe someday you'll want to drop an Imp Crit feat to pick up something else, and to choose a weapon matching the feat you're least likely to drop.

It seems like Mineral II or lightning strike weapons are popular for DPS. Am not interested in pos-pos-pos. Any other candidates I might not know about? Why do people seem to shy away from fire or ice? Because of wider immunities? The magma surge does a lot of damage, and the freezing effect seems cool on paper...but then a lot of the effects seem cool on paper but don't turn out.

Mineral is popular because it is the ONLY shroud combo that can beat the DR on current raid bosses like Suulomades and Arraetrikos.

Lightning is not nearly as popular, although it is a good choice for DPS against non/low DR enemies (and in fact is equal to Mineral2 if the monster has acid resist and DR 15, but not lightning resist). The rareness of lightning resist among monsters also makes it valuable.

Triple Fire and Triple Water are unpopular mainly because they can't involve Holy on tier1, which is another 1d6 damage per hit. Also there's the widespread resistance/immunity to fire and cold, and the fact that they can only be 3-shard items, not 4-shard, which presumably brings more power.

Other elemental combos like air+water = freezing ice are disliked for the same reason: If the combo doesn't involve Positive, you can't have Holy, and your DPS is reduced. (In addition, Freezing Ice is bad because red names are immune to CC effects. That's a weakness of triple earth too)

Fire+Positive is actually quite popular, among characters with Sneak Attack bonuses that apply once the monster is blinded. Even if you don't have Sneak Attack, Radiance is still a fine choice for someone who enjoys defense, as the blindness gives the monster 50% miss. The Light damage on crits is enough to notice, too: they're even an acceptable choice to DPS a monster immune to both fire and blindness (such as VOD orthons)

Am building up ingredients left and right but am stuck on where to go next that would be the best bang for the buck. What do you think?

If you are Sword & Shield and don't have a shroud weapon with +4 AC yet, then make one of those right away. Mineral2 unless you have a good reason to do something else.

Alternatively, sit back and wait until you see what the next raid boss is, and decide based on that.

[SteeleTrueheart]

Alternatively, sit back and wait until you see what the next raid boss is, and decide based on that.

That is what I have done.

Also for the goggle slot you could do mineral 2. Or You could do SP or HP enhancements.

[sephiroth1084]

On my S&B intimitank paladin, I went with Mineral II w/ +4 AC (dwarven axe for me, khopesh, or whatever for you), Existential Stalemate Goggles (only went to tier II on them), and am planning on making a Mineral II Helm.

Reasoning:

Mineral II: Even if the new bosses and such coming out have resistance to acid, or are non-good, or both, the transmuting property makes it useful in a ton of situations. Does fairly solid DPS, and is applicable for just about every monster you'll find. I switch out when fighting elementals (greater bane), oozes, rusties, constructs, and when vorpaling. Without a doubt throw +4 AC on your tier III whatever else you do if you want to have AC endgame.

Goggles: Initially went with Will save +5, Poison Neutralization, and Existential I. Probably remaking with +Cha skills and SP and Existential I. +6 Wisdom on a dead slot for you is very good.

Helm: Replaces Minos Legens (a tough call, but I think will be worthwhile), and frees up whatever slot had my +5 Protection item (necklace in my case). Allows for greater customizing in terms of where your gear can go (so you can fit nifty named items), by combining HP, Heavy Fort and +5 Prot.

[Balkas]

I have a S&B Khopesh Paladin, and I'm making a fire/good burst/flame blast Radiance II Khopesh for him.

The reason that I'm taking flame blast instead of +4 AC is because I have the Levik's Defender's Set, which provides a +3 Insight AC.

I chose the Radiance instead of the Mineral because Pallies can use Holy Sword to bypass the DR of a lot of guys, and the Radiance blindness is both defensive and offensive (especially if I can get my mitts on Tharne's Goggles).

Just food for thought .

[Alcides]

You can get more 3 AC out of a Shroud Weapon(Radiance or Mineral 2) with +4 Insight AC and a Chaosgaurde (+2 Dodge AC), than you do with Levik's set (+3 Insight AC) since you have to use Levik's Bracer to get the set bonus. I'd say Mineral 2 is going to be better in the long run as more and more mobs become increasingly resistant to everything, including stat, physical and elemental damage types.

I have a Mineral 2 Dwarven Axe with Holy, Acid Burst, +4 Insight AC that I'm very happy with.

[Milolyen]

For my higher ac fighter I love the radience 2 (fire/good burst/+4 insight to ac) scimitar for trash mobs and for red named with DR I have a mineral 2 (acid/good burst/+4 insight to ac) scimitar. Radience 2 with a 30% chance to crit and blind mobs really helps his survivability (which is what s/b needs because of low dps compaired to thf and twf). Also I have to disagree with the going holy first part when makeing these 2 weapons as the element dmg is often resisted in most endgame mobs. Sure you are doing an extra 1d6 dmg to them on every hit but on crits you are doing much more dmg with the pure good burst over the element burst that it more than makes up for that with high crit range weapons.

Milolyen

[Premier]

I know I'm raising a dead thread but it's the most recent one I found about Paladin Greensteel theory.

Has anyone considered going triple Air for a Paladin/Fighter intimitank?

Triple air (on goggles is what I'm thinking) yields:

+6 CHA Skills
275 SP
3 clicks of Haste
On-hit chance DC 35 trip or 30 sec Haste

I'm playing around with a shield blocking Dwarven Pally/Fighter intimitank that plans on taking hits and shruging them off. I'm interested if anyone else had a similar idea with the triple air. Peace!

-Premier

[Dexxaan]

RE: Air Air Air

I have it.

Haste is nice, CHA Skills even better.

The "problem" is with a standing 67-68 AC I don't get hit enough to get the mii-hastes or Knockdowns too often.

Intimi-Tanks make horrible users of Guard items.

[Premier]

Thanks for the reply Dexxaan. I'm thinking the best Greensteel for a S&B Pally (I'm an up and coming one) is an item that opens up more slots.

The Mineral II on goggles (goggles are a very open slot for me) seems like an excellent choice. That will open up a Ring and a Necklace slot on my Pally. According to the perfectweb crafting planner one can squeeze in a Wiz VI and +1 CHA skills but with a loss of 10 HP potentially when creating a Mineral II goggle item which I'm comfortable with.

Does anyone else have any ideas on a non-weapon Greensteel item for a Pally Intimitank? Peace!

-Premier

[sephiroth1084]

Existential Stalemate I makes for a good GS item...get that +6 Wis on a slot with something useful besides. On my intimitank I have a set of goggles with: Will +5, Proof Against Poison and Existential Stalemate (currently), and am almost done making a Mineral II Helm with +10 HP, +50 SP/+2 Cha skills, and will have +15 HP besides. I had not planned on making multiple greensteels, which is why the distribution of abilities is kind of odd. I plan on finishing the goggles with +100 SP/+3 Cha skills to further boost intimidate.

The Will save was kind of a waste, but it was to make up for eventually losing the slot for my resistance item (for when I was hoping to, and finally acquired, the Chattering Ring). Probably could have been better spent. PAP is pretty nice, but not a necessity--just one less thing to worry about. If I were doing these over, I think I would go with a pure SP Existential Stalemate I w/+5 Cha skills goggles (Existential Stalemate II seems to be not worth the extra 12 large ingredients), and a straight HP Mineral II helm.

[Premier]

I have an Existential Stalemate cloak on my Rogue with CHA skills and SP (he's part Wizzy). Making another set for my Pally would be beneficial. Your right about not needing to go all the way with the Existential Stalemate as the tier 2 yields many great benefits. Here's one that the Crafting Planner gave me (the perfectweb crafting planner is incredible!):

Goggles: +10 HP +1 STR skills (or WIZ VI +1 INT skills), +50 SP +2 CHA skills, +10 Diplo +10 Haggle +6 Wis.

Like most, I don't leave a Wis item on so this will take care of that. Plus it's a quick benefit to my up and coming Pally by only needed SM and MD ingredients. I'd probably go with the WIZ VI instead of the 10 HP but I'm not sure yet.

I definitely want CHA skill bonuses. I like the idea of adding +5 Will save because it's essentially a +8 Will save with the +6 Wis. But I can use the CHA skills bonuses more. Peace!

-Premier