What Makes for a GOOD Raid Cleric

[krud]

THe gauntlets are nice.. But you cant count on crits. ANy cleric that thinks critical heals are going to save him or a party memeber from getting killed needs to rethink his build/playstyle.

Plus, Greater arcane lore covers Heals as well. Blue Dragon scale armor..... Greenblade.. SKiver.... even the elfcraft robe in a pich willprovide a better chance to crit those mass heals...

GLoves from VoD are much better... Especialy if your Rockin max and extend of course.

Never depend on crits for healing, but when you do get a crit you get extra healing for zero extra sp cost. It's basically free healing, why not maximize your chances for a crit? Especially whenever you are spamming mass cures one after another. Of course the VoD gloves are better, especially if you are specced for damage, but you'll be competing with every other arcane caster to get them. People practically throw away the gauntlets from the reaver.

[ace_mason]

Question to all clerics. What Abilities, Feats, Spells, Gear, Strategies make for a good raid cleric?

Just looking for ideas, suggestions, and feedback.

Thanks

P.S. I posted this not because I am a noob cleric, but because I want to make sure that I am making sure that I am not missing some very valuable componet to being a raid cleric and letting my team down.

I started out back in the day when Battle Clerics were all the rage and did not have 32 Pointers Unlocked, so I went Drow and 16-10-8-10-16-16 (Yes I know the low Con is a Killer, but I WAS a NOOB then ) My Current Stats are 16-12-14-10-30-22. My Feats Currently are MT - Extend - IMT - Emp Heal - MAX - Quicken. I have around 1465 SP and Am just about to craft a Tier II GS Item which would add 100Sp to this total. And also free up 2 Slots on this Char to address the super low HP Issue.

#1 rule to being a good cleric.BE PREPARED!!! Make sure you have EVERYTHING you need to cover a party if **** hits the fan. Think of everything that could go wrong and be prepared to cover someones ass.

[tihocan]

What makes a good raid cleric is the player behind. The build/gear doesn't matter much (as long as you have enough money to compensate for the flaws ). Then it's a matter of doing the right things at the right time.

[weyoun]

Reroll that gimped 8 con cleric. There are lots of different ways to play but that 8 con is going to continue to haunt you, probably even more in the next raid. Obtain items that make you harder to kill, e.g., a cloak of the ice or firestorm greaves for round 4 of the shroud or umd FS scrolls. If you go down it can hit the fan quickly so don't go down.

Dump the dv's. They are novel but they are gimping you. Everyone likes them cause who doesn't like more mana? Many clerics run around with 1700-1800 sp and sorcs are typically from 2400-2600. That is typically enough to finish the job. If its not well then you need to reconsider who you run with.

[Niclos]

#1 rule to being a good cleric.BE PREPARED!!! Make sure you have EVERYTHING you need to cover a party if **** hits the fan. Think of everything that could go wrong and be prepared to cover someones ass.

The most important part of being an elite cleric above all else.... Keeping yourself and solely yourself alive, why ? refer to the above poster. Even shroud normal this is overlooked on part 4. I say, "Above all else heal yourself and the other cleric". Fireball, fireball, both clerics dead. Failure... How many times have you been in a group when the cleric dies everyone questions? who can rez the cleric? at level 8? Dont count on anyone being self sufficent especially in pugs. You can give and take life at your choosing.

[Varr]

I don't feel competent to speak to the cleric portion, but this particular idea needs to be cut off at the knees. Once you've got enough trap skills to handle the traps you're dealing with, anything above that is junk that could be used for DPS, damage avoidance, or UMD.

Yes yes yes, but how much is enough........jsut like how much bard song bonus is enough, or how much crit multiplier possibilty for healing is enough. Im not advocating trap monkey sole build raid use.........but if Im building a von 5/6 e run with level 9/10's I woudl take a mechanic over an assassin.......does that make sence to you? We are min maxing in this discussion.......and my point about player characters being less general and more specialized offers raid parties bigger advantages is a valid one because there are plenty of spots to cover all specialties.

And you will see that Im a huge proponent for first 12 are in for raid forming and no exclusions due to loot and so forth.............but that was not the question.....the question I got was basicly.........What makes the perfect raid cleric..........and I say pure healing. Just like I woudl say that a mechanic is a superior raid rogue to a accrobat or assassin, even though of my two current capped rogues, I have only an accrobat and an assassin. See the point?

[Impaqt]

Just like I woudl say that a mechanic is a superior raid rogue to a accrobat or assassin, even though of my two current capped rogues, I have only an accrobat and an assassin. See the point?

I agree to a point. If running level appropriet, being a Mechanis in VON and Twilight FOrge can be an asset. But beyond that, Trap are not very dificult. VoD on Elite is far below the High Water marks for the game. and there are No Traps in Hound, Shroud, Reaver, or DQ.


However, in DQ, Hound, and Reaver, Knock down attacks are quite prevalant. THe Immunity to these attacks provided by Acrobat is a Huge advantage.

[SableShadow]

Yes yes yes, but how much is enough........jsut like how much bard song bonus is enough, or how much crit multiplier possibilty for healing is enough.

Invalid comparison. More is generally better with damage or healing. With traps, it's binary: you disable, or you don't. Any more doesn't help. It would be a different discussion if higher rolls let you disable the trap faster, but they don't.

Just like I woudl say that a mechanic is a superior raid rogue to a accrobat or assassin

None of the raid traps in the current game require a trap specialist, even on Elite, and they never have; just keep up your gear. You're more likely to blow a box by forgetting to put on a DD item than you are due to the box difficulty.

I'd say that none of the prestige classes are any better raiding than the others, except for Acrobat in Titan, Reaver, or (marginally) Hound.

but if Im building a von 5/6 e run with level 9/10's I woudl take a mechanic over an assassin.......does that make sence to you?

Err...well, you might want to ask him what his DD/Search is, instead of "Are you a Mechanic?" Plenty of high Int rogues went Assassin when it came out to pump up their offensive capabilities, and they're going to actually be *more* qualified to do your trap work by virtue of their Int than the guy who went Mechanic to bolster his low Int, right?

iirc, the highest DC for VoN 5 elite traps (the lightning ones) were about a 36 DC Search, and a 41 or 42ish Disable to take the boxes down. If you're lowballing your rogue, then yes, a Mechanic may (*may*) have an advantage depending on the rest of his build and gear.

But the truly relevant question is, what are the DCs vs Skill levels, true?

See the point?

Look, I hear what you're saying: Elite raids require specialization, with each class doing what they do best.

The problem I have is you're trying to apply that same rule of thumb to the class who's strength is generalization, and you're buying into the assumption that because rogues are the only class that can do traps, that this is in fact what they do best.

And...if you post in a cleric forum that Elite raids should have a Way of the Mechanic rogue, a lotta folks are going to take that at face value, grab Mechanics when they need a trap down and exclude the class otherwise.

[prodigy]

Question to all clerics. What Abilities, Feats, Spells, Gear, Strategies make for a good raid cleric?

All you have to do is listen to your raid leader, and ask questions where appropriate.

For example, if asked to spot heal, spot Heal, not spot mass while the other cleric is Mass healing. This leads to overhealing and lots of wasted SP

As long as you are aware of your Characters abilities, you will be fine. Its no crime to make a group aware of what you aren't comfortable being made responsible for.

Carrying a few consumable supplies is also good idea, Heal scrolls, Mass cure mod scrolls for example. I also keep my entire supply of Mnemonic pots on my cleric.

[weyoun]

All you have to do is listen to your raid leader, and ask questions where appropriate.

For example, if asked to spot heal, spot Heal, not spot mass while the other cleric is Mass healing. This leads to overhealing and lots of wasted SP

As long as you are aware of your Characters abilities, you will be fine. Its no crime to make a group aware of what you aren't comfortable being made responsible for.

Carrying a few consumable supplies is also good idea, Heal scrolls, Mass cure mod scrolls for example. I also keep my entire supply of Mnemonic pots on my cleric.

Mag i was in a shroud the other day when the leader was a complete noob-an utter tard. I didn't listen to him I just took the raid over. People inherently listen to clerics or soon learn to. My current personal favorite is the altar in part 5 of the shroud, after people die they tend to listen better.

[binnsr]

A cool name is a must to be a good Raid Cleric.

Something like Zhelda is optimal, me thinks!

[prodigy]

Mag i was in a shroud the other day when the leader was a complete noob-an utter tard. I didn't listen to him I just took the raid over. People inherently listen to clerics or soon learn to. My current personal favorite is the altar in part 5 of the shroud, after people die they tend to listen better.

LOL, so you became the raid leader

I like to play with you Weyoun, you are perhaps the only cleric I know with more disregard for others than me

[Chelsa]

Your all making this to complicated.

There is only one simple rule. DON'T DIE!

[weyoun]

LOL, so you became the raid leader

I like to play with you Weyoun, you are perhaps the only cleric I know with more disregard for others than me

Mag ur making me feel all special. rofl.

[Varr]

Hum, Im not sure that for the specific tangent we are talking about (rouge specialty) that my point is being made. I listed it as a part of the whole, as one of 4 examples to 10 classes. The question is about the best cleric for raids, and to me the best cleric to do raids is one specificly set to heal. Other clerics are fine too, but the best is the healer.

Say I found a magic key.......and this Key let me open one of the new raids on elite only for a first time run........I would try to create this party

2 heal bot clerics
1 nuke sorc
1 debuff/charm specialized wizard
1 bard (warchanters) full song boost
1 way of the mechanic 2 rogue
1 pali full aura enhanced
1 ranged ranger full barkskin
1 intimitank
1 barbarian
1 tempest ranger
torn here.........either a casting cleric or a monk as my 12th.

This would be my list as to the perfect group for an unknown raid on e.........because represented is every class doing what its class does better than any other. With raid knowledge and equiptment and easy of quest from stratagy/repitition rolling away from this list is easy to do in raids we are now running, but does not dilute the idea to me of the perfect party and perfect parties participants. And again, I say this to express the ultimate cleric to me, for this type of questing.........and say again that this type of specialization is unnecessary to be effective, just as I dont like min maxing personaly, but continuing to try and justify both my answer to the op and my stating that a mechanic is a better rogue for an unknown raid than either of the other two types. The mechanic might also forget to put on his dd item, but will have a higher disable and may still disarm.

But to me this grouping is the most potent for an unknown run of difficulty.

[krud]

1 way of the mechanic 2 rogue

<thumbs down>

I'm with sable on this one. Way of the mechanic really does nothing for a rogue who already has good specs for traps. It's like the 50 str barbarian saying he needs the weapon focus feat to be able to hit things. It's wasted AP if you already have the specs and gear for disabling traps. It is more for the rogue who needs to make up ground becauses he skimped on build points to focus on other stats.

[Varr]

Of course you do, you have a couple of level 8/splash rogue mutts. Doesnt matter, there are very very few high level raiding mechanics anyways because they are so specialized they are almost unplayable in normal content........I would guess that 85% or more of the rogues in play now are either assassin or accrobat, since they are more diversified and are better dpsers. Not sure why there is such a hang up on this issue...........rogues are my favorite class personaly.........but Im not blinded by the fact that my splash rogues, nor my accrobat, nor my assassin, is as potent at disabling traps as a equally well built and equipt mechanic. Just because a mutt can do search and disarm most traps in the game, and most traps are unimportant to disarm anyway, does not devalue the desire for a trap master for unknown super tough content. But even if it did...........so what? Your perfect party could be different than mine. Not hearing the spell singers ranting about there exclusion, nor the two weapon fighters, nor the cc sorcs. And it is imaginary exclusion anyway, would never wait around for the perfect party. Oh ****, now I jsut said that mechanics are not as good as assassins at dps........darn........is ok, you can post and tell me ya are, just like the assassins or mutt rogues are saying can disarm as well as the mechanics do.

And you are right, there is no differance between a rogue that has a +778 spot/search/disable and one with a +779, but there is a diff between one with a +54 and +55. By the way, how is your spot on your non mechanics? Maxed like a mechanic's? Mine is not........so on new content, I would be fumbling around for boxed and praying on my very tasty accrobat.........my Assassin was intellegent enought to afford the luxury of spot and a soft starting wis. How about your mutts spot?

[Impaqt]

Well, Considering theres noway to step into a Raid for the first time on Elite, heres my Ideal "Going into a raid Blind" group.

12 People that work well together and are willing to try try again.

[Varr]

I said very clearly I had a magic key!

Ps, Im very angry today and want to fight, quicken is for sissies!

[krud]

By the way, how is your spot on your non mechanics? Maxed like a mechanic's? Mine is not........so on new content, I would be fumbling around for boxed and praying on my very tasty accrobat.........my Assassin was intellegent enought to afford the luxury of spot and a soft starting wis. How about your mutts spot?

Someone like me who skimped on rogue levels would be a perfect candidate for WoM in order to make up some difference. But for a full rogue who has the gear and some AP invested in trap skills, and hasn't totally gimped his stats, he will be able to perform his task with or without WoM. It would probably be overkill.

btw - I'm more str based (30str), and my unbuffed specs are (including tools):
spot 39
search 44
dd 54
ol 50
umd 40
reflex save (in traps) +37, +46 w/boosts