Disappointed with the new Fighter Love

[BlackSteel]

must've hit something twice, but its a 5 difference not 7

[Murderface]

Having taken a look at the new Fighter love for mod 8 I have to say I’m more than a little disappointed with what we’ve been given.

Fighter’s Weapon Specialization adds +1 damage at lvl 8 to a specific weapon type (eg. Dwarven Axe) and a further +1 at level 16 for a total cost of 3 AP.

+2 damage total.

The new Fighter tactical feats which we were looking forward to would appear (from the Compendium) to be just one - Superior Weapon Focus, again in a specific weapon type.

+1 to hit, should you wish to burn a feat on it.

That extra +2 damage is way too little to balance the melee classes and, to be honest, a slap in the face for us poor Ftrs who were promised so much.

Looking at these numbers, a maxed Dwarven Barb with a Mineral II GreatAxe does 3d6+50 per swing and crits on 17-20. A maxed Dwarven Ftr (with the new enhancement) does 3d6+45 and crits on 19-20.

I am NOT saying that a Ftr’s DPS has to equal a Barb’s or a Rgr’s, but even with the new enhancements a Ftr hits for 5 points less per swing, has HALF the number of crits (with axes) and is at –3 to tactical feats compared to a Barb.

I appreciate that Fighter PrE’s are forthcoming in mod 9 but they would have to be grossly overpowered to even come close to Rangers, Barbs or even Pallies now it would seem.

+2 damage sounds like its right up my alley, hopefully its not a 2 point buy in
superior focus feat seems dumb
just give us ce 2 and fighters dodge back ill be ok with that.. you bring ce 2 back i might use that superior wpn focus feat haha

just thought of something tho superior foucs must mean theres a superior weapon spec on the way and if you can get 6 damage by way of feats thats nothing to sneeze at add 2 from enhancments( 4 if your a dwarf)

[llevenbaxx]

Hmm, well I think the point is.... That a 2 weapons fighting build can out AC or match the AC of a fully armored/shield holding tank, can out DPS (not per-swing, but has double the attacks) of a S/B. Sure;y a S/B build isn't wholly ineffective with the right build and the right play-style. Oh wait maybe a armored, shield holding tank has 1 advantage when shield blockign they get a little bit of DR, whoopitdy dippitdy do.But it's ridiculous that they can be out AC'd, out DPS'd, in such a way so easily. The entire progression of how this happened is amazing. I beat the system by being a general UMD build, that can survive and has enough of a mix of stat/DPS to hold up. Not great at anything but keeping myself and the whole party alive by rezzing/healing the dead clerics and casters. But it's a stretch to build and equip a toon in such a way.

Yeah I realize this isnt quite right atm but the games not finished yet either. Plus there is a MC system for a reason, you didnt really "beat" the system youre simply working within it. I too would like to see some kind of variant DR system come in for heavy armor/shield wearing characters.

I guess pretty much just doing the new raids on elite for the most part I get to see how a well formed team can use all the parts. Getting a great intimatank who can affectively turtle up for the new ones always seems to be the most important role. These roles are almost always taken be ftrs, pallys or ftr/pallys. I know its just two specific example but in pretty much any content outside of raids, you bring just about any group through them so that hardly matters.

[Cold_Stele]

i'm not getting a 7 point difference when I add them up for identical races, dwarf barb vs dwarf fighter

My numbers are here http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=588

I'm getting the Barb getting 7 more points per swing (5 including FWS) and doing double the amount of criticals. Please feel free to point out where you think they're incorrect.

TWF would be less damage per swing but more swings per minute and more opportunities to crit with Crit Rage II - I don't see the Barb doing less DPS in that scenario either.

was never stated that mod 8 was supposed to have lots of fighter love, only enhancements for weapon spec.

I agree, but to reiterate - this was a missed opportunity to address balance. As a result the new PrE's will have to be ridiculously overpowered in order to close the gap between the melees.

[Turial]

Overall the new fighter enhancements make a two weapon fighter relatively on par with a similar ranger (using rams might) vs non-favored mobs.

+1 to-hit for weapon focus feat
+2 damage for weapon specialization feat
+1 damage for weapon specialization level 8 enhancement
+1 damage for weapon specialization level 16 enhancement
+1 to-hit for greater weapon focus feat
+2 damage for greater weapon specialization feat
+1 to-hit for superior weapon focus feat

Total: +3 to-hit and +6 damage Fighter Permanent.
Total: +1 to-hit and +4 damage Ranger Dispellable buff.

[Turial]

....
please someone prove me wrong tell me one mod where ranger didnt get a big dose of love

Mods 1-4 back when fighters were kings.

[Murderface]

whether you're willing to wait or not, you're not really in a position to make more things appear in mod8.

these mod8 fighter enhancements were completely unexpected. we were told long ago that the specialties and fighter/pally love are set for mod9. mod9 is supposedly due for jan/feb. be happy we got something in mod8.

or not. your call.

edit: with the delays, i'd consider january very unlikely.

but there putting massivly underpowered prc in purple dragon knight good stuff unless theres a bard around so certaily there competence bonus would have to stack with bard or be totaly useless and a waste of points, defender heres one thats totaly defensive in fact one of the stipulations is that you have to stand perfectly still for defenders abilities(standing still in ddo usualy doesnt work), then we have kensai hmmm now if it were some kind weapons master kensai with widened criticals and extra crit multiplier with one type of weapon now that would work
obviously you dont make it stack with barb stuff and make it impossible to get the extre crit multiplier make it a lvl 14 restriction. you should just look forward to the steady increase in ranger love because turbines trackrecord so far is making ranger better every single mod

please someone prove me wrong tell me one mod where ranger didnt get a big dose of love

[Cold_Stele]

Overall the new fighter enhancements make a two weapon fighter relatively on par with a similar ranger (using rams might) vs non-favored mobs.

Um, you're kind of forgetting the permanent 10% haste boost or the fact that not much stuff end game isn't a favored enemy.

My Rgr has Evil Outsiders, Constructs, Elementals and Aberrations, which is everything but what Gnolls, Trogs and the odd Troll end game right? Everything else he just uses stat damage anyway...

BUT SERIOUSLY - why are we debating this? Is there ONE PERSON who doesn't think Ftrs are underpowered compared to Barbs and Rgrs???

[Laith]

please someone prove me wrong tell me one mod where ranger didnt get a big dose of love

any in mod8?

well, nm, i guess the fact that Ghola Fan doesn't confuse rangers with those dirty monks counts as love.

[Cold_Stele]

any in mod8?

Well they didn't nerf Tempest, despite the huge waves of panic that they had.

That's a whole lotta love right there

[Murderface]

Overall the new fighter enhancements make a two weapon fighter relatively on par with a similar ranger (using rams might) vs non-favored mobs.

+1 to-hit for weapon focus feat
+2 damage for weapon specialization feat
+1 damage for weapon specialization level 8 enhancement
+1 damage for weapon specialization level 16 enhancement
+1 to-hit for greater weapon focus feat
+2 damage for greater weapon specialization feat
+1 to-hit for superior weapon focus feat

Total: +3 to-hit and +6 damage Fighter Permanent.
Total: +1 to-hit and +4 damage Ranger Dispellable buff.

the way i see it sounds like superior focus might lead to superior specialization, so total from feats would be +6, then add another +2 from enhancements +4 for axe if your a dwarf. Thats a total of +8-+10 to each hand dual weilding that would be pretty darn close to fe damage for rangers...barbs offhand damage stinks getting barb pa maxed and using a offhand weapon isnt that great all your str is .5 so in the end a dwarf dual wielder would get better off hand damage per regular hit. so im thinking superior focus is pretty good sign there will be superior specialization and if theres that thers probably a third wpn spec enhancment coming

[Murderface]

any in mod8?

well, nm, i guess the fact that Ghola Fan doesn't confuse rangers with those dirty monks counts as love.

mod 8 may have been less then stellar for str rangers but it was a god blessing to finesse rangers ooo monk splash ooooo icy rainment,, lol thats all i have to say about that......

if i had a nickels for every ranger reroll i saw on my server well lets just say

i would have alot of dang nickels

[Laith]

mod 8 may have been less then stellar for str rangers but it was a god blessing to finesse rangers ooo monk splash ooooo icy rainment,, lol thats all i have to say about that......

mod8 is the one on risia...

besides, that was just as big of a boost to any other classes dex builds. can't just claim that one as a win for rangers.

[Angelus_dead]

Overall the new fighter enhancements make a two weapon fighter relatively on par with a similar ranger (using rams might) vs non-favored mobs.

Except that the ranger is swinging 10% faster, which even if you're going for raw DPS is similar to being +4 damage above the fighter.

[Cold_Stele]

+4 for axe if your a dwarf thats a total of +8-+10 to each hand dual weilding that would be pretty darn close to fe damage for rangers

If you're going to be accurate you can't use different races when comparing - you have to assume both are Dwarves with Dorf Axe Damage otherwise those numbers are meaningless. Also it's not just the damage per swing that makes Rgrs so great it's the permanent 10% haste boost.

I haven't crunched TWF numbers yet but guess I could. Adding SWS in the THF scenario would still equal 3 points less per swing and HALF the number of crits compared to Barbs though.

Sure it's closing the gap but it's still a long way behind.

[Laith]

Except that the ranger is swinging 10% faster, which even if you're going for raw DPS is similar to being +4 damage above the fighter.

due to some heavy hinting about items that grant tempest's haste boost but don't stack with tempest, that's up in the air.

we might just have another bloodstone on our hands...

[Turial]

Um, you're kind of forgetting the permanent 10% haste boost or the fact that not much stuff end game isn't a favored enemy.

My Rgr has Evil Outsiders, Constructs, Elementals and Aberrations, which is everything but what Gnolls, Trogs and the odd Troll end game right? Everything else he just uses stat damage anyway...

BUT SERIOUSLY - why are we debating this? Is there ONE PERSON who doesn't think Ftrs are underpowered compared to Barbs and Rgrs???

That is a problem and I have long been pushing for a much larger mob species diversity and for breaking the PrE's away from specific classes.

[frugal_gourmet]

due to some heavy hinting about items that grant tempest's haste boost but don't stack with tempest, that's up in the air.

we might just have another bloodstone on our hands...

My first instinct is: that's a really lame idea. But we'll see how it plays out.

[Murderface]

Um, you're kind of forgetting the permanent 10% haste boost or the fact that not much stuff end game isn't a favored enemy.

My Rgr has Evil Outsiders, Constructs, Elementals and Aberrations, which is everything but what Gnolls, Trogs and the odd Troll end game right? Everything else he just uses stat damage anyway...

BUT SERIOUSLY - why are we debating this? Is there ONE PERSON who doesn't think Ftrs are underpowered compared to Barbs and Rgrs???

lets be honest barbs dont compare to ranger damage because of fe damage in the offhand all barbs damage comes from str there offhand is .5 if your still gthf then you now your swingin about 1 swing per 4 ranger swings so really its a big jump between barb to ranger
i would say the best damage is halflingrogues/rangers then barbs then fighters then pallys then bards then monks if there all maxed out dps that is

[Cold_Stele]

due to some heavy hinting about items that grant tempest's haste boost but don't stack with tempest, that's up in the air.

Don't we already have a 10% alacrity item in the game? I know it as Jorgundal's Collar but you may know it by such terms as vendor trash, bank junk or AH garbage