Question for all you Shroud leaders out there...

[stockwizard5]

Step One: Take everyone we know
Step Two: Remove everyone we "know"
Step Three: Take whatever we need by request order

Even Welsh Rarebit

[Ringos]

At that point I would:

A) accept the weird/build.

That he managed to complete the quest enough to get the dual mineral rapiers is either testamony to his playing ability, or possibly validation of the build.

...OR a testamony to the folks that drug him through it all those times. Trust me, I know a group of people that do it for me quite often!

(btw, not a commentary on the OP! )


As a side, when an LFM is new and there are several spots left, I think folks are a lot less 'picky' and will take a chance on a non-standard build. If it comes down to one slot left and they are lookin' at DPS, most leaders might grab a straight Barb over a melee/caster build. Just a thought about the general way folks think.

[Dexxaan]

I often laugh when my pure ranger isn't accepted into a shroud group and then I switch to my gimped pure fighter who gets in...

/Add "Ingvild Slashappy" 16 Fighter (self proclaimed Gimp) to long list of non-Raid material.


(JK JK.....but you did set yourself up for future turndowns...)

[TheMoose]

It's amazing that people can't do a shroud regardless of class. If you have 11 other guys... Well, the last class shouldn't matter. If it's an issue you have other issues than your last acceptable class. Balls.

You make a valid point there, but what bothers me the most about pugging raids is the fact that you end up with these fellow below... Sometimes one person can be the entire drain of a party...

[TheMoose]

[QUOTE=Thrudh;1879716]

What do you do?

QUOTE]


Let the rest vote on it, maybe someone knows the player

[moorewr]

Also, I have to add that that isn't a such a weird build.. in fact there's a bunch just like it in the Ranger forums.. Impaqt designed one... what's so weird about a tempest or arcane archer with their own haste and blur?

Things I look for when I have an LFM up:

• exactly six levels of ranger
• exactly two levels of rogue or paladin
• literary references in character names

anything else is situational

[Bunker]

You make a valid point there, but what bothers me the most about pugging raids is the fact that you end up with these fellow below... Sometimes one person can be the entire drain of a party...

IMO, the only way a player can be a drain on the party is if that player goes AFK once inside the quest. I'm unsure how 1 player can drain a party of 12 unless the other 11 where hoping that Mr. 12 would do all the work.

[Zenako]

IMO, the only way a player can be a drain on the party is if that player goes AFK once inside the quest. I'm unsure how 1 player can drain a party of 12 unless the other 11 where hoping that Mr. 12 would do all the work.

Well one fun monkey could lead the party to premature quest ejection....

Kill the reaver before anyone can fly....

Loads of laughs in Part 2 if you wake the middle four while still cleaning the rest of the maze....

stuff like that....

[gfunk]

/Add "Ingvild Slashappy" 16 Fighter (self proclaimed Gimp) to long list of non-Raid material.


(JK JK.....but you did set yourself up for future turndowns...)

yeah, you are right... ill get by tho.

And I mean "relatively gimped" compared with my ranger, who finally has all the raid gear and 90% of the crafting that I ever wanted. My fighter with only some raid gear and incomplete crafting is still a work in progress. if i was going to pick between the two, i would definately take my ranger over my fighter for any raid (unless they need an intimidator)

besides... this is on the thelanis server... no one from sarlona will read this..

doh!

[Ringos]

IMO, the only way a player can be a drain on the party is if that player goes AFK once inside the quest. I'm unsure how 1 player can drain a party of 12 unless the other 11 where hoping that Mr. 12 would do all the work.

I dunno Bunker...I think there are several ways folks could make a party weaker by the addition. SP wasted on buffs, healing, raises. Distraction of 'where is NAME?', running somewhere they shouldn't, activating part V of the Shroud before folks shrine... (or do you get raised with full mana...i guess I never thought about that! )

It usually isn't the case but it certainly can be.

[vanderberg]

This thread has gotten too far away from the character classes and on to player performance. Sure there is some players that you benefit from and some you don't. But if I don't know the guy to be one of the disturbances, I will take a 3cleric/6sorc/7barbarian, I don't care. There could be a solid build played by a horrible player.

I go into quests knowing that i'll survive.. the 11 others.. I have no idea.

[Braegan]

Hey! light on DPS???

I guess maybe I should have told him my favored enemies are evil outsiders, elementals, and constructs.... He's pretty much built for the Shroud. And note I didn't mention a bow in there... dual mineral IIs with a bloodstone and favored enemy damage is not really what I would consider light DPS....

I'm off to bed... good luck on your run!!

Heh, I guess light on DPS didn't really capture what I meant. I more so meant someone that can deal damage and take it as well. And to be honest looking at your build and reading what you posted so far I would be a little concerned about your hp. Now I do realize that some is realitive due to evasion and would take that into consideration. I guess if the group did not already have at least two hard hitters with hp I would be leary about giving you the last spot, but that's the only thing I can think of. At the very least I agree it's rude to just keep folks hanging on in the que. I always make the time to send tells to those I decline, forwhatever reason it may be(guildie logged on, someone joined group and wants to bring others with them, etc).

[Xithos]

Well one fun monkey could lead the party to premature quest ejection....

Kill the reaver before anyone can fly....

Loads of laughs in Part 2 if you wake the middle four while still cleaning the rest of the maze....

stuff like that....

You just posted the first thing I thought of for how 1 player can put strain/duress on all 11 other players during a Shroud run on Hard; I specifically remember player "X" prematurely grabbing all 4 of the Generals and bringing them all to the SW corner where the orthons were being disposed of. Having both the fire elly and the bearded devil made things pretty chaotic and I thought it was pretty funny when the devil started pinball/teleporting from squishy to squishy while the fire elly unloaded. I needed smalls from the first part at the time anyway so I was amused, but there were some folks in party who really wanted that hard completion and were sufficiently irked

[Thrudh]

And to be honest looking at your build and reading what you posted so far I would be a little concerned about your hp. Now I do realize that some is realitive due to evasion and would take that into consideration.

Heh, you're pretty observant... Yeah, he only has like 270 hps... so that is his weak point...

Although he has the halfling dragonmarks, so he can heal himself pretty well

(side note: Free Extend and Maximize from wizard levels... Maximize works on Dragonmarks, AND rangers get the Devotion enhancements - same 40% to healing that clerics get - AND I have Superior Devotion III ring - so my 7 CSW heal like 120 points each, and my 5 heals cure 210 points each - that's a lot of self-healing - no concentration checks needed for Dragonmarks either, so healing in combat is easy)

Note that Part 4 is mostly fireball damage, and rangers have evasion... so I stand toe-to-toe with Pit Fiend throughout Part 4 and really only get hurt by the spinning blades... I don't think he's ever died in Part 4 (except when the entire party wipes)

Part 5 is a little more dangerous for me... I have to pay attention, and self-heal when necessasry, but that part's much easier for the whole party, and if I do get killed (pretty rare), it's not the end of the world..

[Bunker]

I dunno Bunker...I think there are several ways folks could make a party weaker by the addition. SP wasted on buffs, healing, raises. Distraction of 'where is NAME?', running somewhere they shouldn't, activating part V of the Shroud before folks shrine... (or do you get raised with full mana...i guess I never thought about that! )

It usually isn't the case but it certainly can be.

Activating part V before group can shrine: Done that!

If a player wastes his SP, and has no interests in working with the group, that player WILL find that his presence is not needed and will most likely leave group.

Well one fun monkey could lead the party to premature quest ejection....

Kill the reaver before anyone can fly....

Loads of laughs in Part 2 if you wake the middle four while still cleaning the rest of the maze....

stuff like that....

A player wants to aggro the reaver and attempt to kill him before we get fly, no problem there, just stop healing him, problem solved. If that doesn't work, no big deal, it is the reaver, go back in for another 10 minutes and complete without him/her.

Waking up the middle in part 2: Most likely that player will die in the act, and if so just don't raise him. I will put him in my backpack, until part 2 is over, or until I feel he is ready to work with the group. Are these actions perhaps childish? No more then the fool's actions that got him there in the first place.

Aside from a very very few isolated possibilities, I find it hard to imagine that 1 player can ruin a quest for the whole group. And if you try to do this, knowing the past experience from Thelanis Server reactions, this player wont' survive on the server very long.

[Ringos]

This thread has gotten too far away from the character classes and on to player performance. Sure there is some players that you benefit from and some you don't. But if I don't know the guy to be one of the disturbances, I will take a 3cleric/6sorc/7barbarian, I don't care. There could be a solid build played by a horrible player.

I go into quests knowing that i'll survive.. the 11 others.. I have no idea.

I agree...it's wandered off-topic a bit.

There can be a BIG difference in the make-up of a group and what they can/can't handle. I could join one pug, TRY my best to cause a wipe and it may not matter at all. The next group, well, they may wipe 3 minutes into the quest or raid. Some people know their limitations and hold out for the 'perfect' group. Maybe they are being a jerks, maybe they know what they are and are not capable of. The majority of the population likes having a 'standard' group for raids. I know there are many that post here that are not exactly an accurate representation of the average player. I'm not judging either way, just presenting a few points.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

So much to say....so little time. ( at work )

The Op's build is a good one and the Op is a top notch player....run with him in the distant past.

Equipment and player matter soooo much more than build. I will never understand build discrimination.

1 char out of 12 cannot bring a group down.

Perfect mix should not be necessary at all now that we've run those quests for the millionth time. But they do still fail......but never for the resons most fear.

DPS is important in Part 1. Prt 4 and 5 would go great with a whole party of rgr11/Wiz5s IMO.
Part 2 varies depending on what you pull.

One guy can make a quest fail, but it has nothing to do with his build.

I just love those people who seem to need a certain party mix to carry them through a quest. Off topic, but my favorite is any class putting up an LFm for Clr/Wiz/Sor only to do GoP..........my friends did it without a cleric......only one arcane, who got very little kills compared to the 3 rangers in our group.
The good players could care less about party make-up. bring your own A game and don't worry about what every one else is bringing.

And if you fail? repairs cost less than 1% of the costs of the scrolls you would have used if you had stuck in to the end......and without completion, regroup and try again.
Why the fuss/hate?

[Ringos]

So much to say....so little time. ( at work )

The Op's build is a good one and the Op is a top notch player....run with him in the distant past.

Equipment and player matter soooo much more than build. I will never understand build discrimination.

1 char out of 12 cannot bring a group down.

Perfect mix should not be necessary at all now that we've run those quests for the millionth time. But they do still fail......but never for the resons most fear.

DPS is important in Part 1. Prt 4 and 5 would go great with a whole party of rgr11/Wiz5s IMO.
Part 2 varies depending on what you pull.

One guy can make a quest fail, but it has nothing to do with his build.

I just love those people who seem to need a certain party mix to carry them through a quest. Off topic, but my favorite is any class putting up an LFm for Clr/Wiz/Sor only to do GoP..........my friends did it without a cleric......only one arcane, who got very little kills compared to the 3 rangers in our group.
The good players could care less about party make-up. bring your own A game and don't worry about what every one else is bringing.

And if you fail? repairs cost less than 1% of the costs of the scrolls you would have used if you had stuck in to the end......and without completion, regroup and try again.
Why the fuss/hate?

Once again...just speaking for the masses here.


One bad player can't take out YOUR group...or Bunk's, or Maels'...

YOU have run these quests a million+ times...so has Clay, and Shyv...

A bunch of folks here aren't exactly a good rep of the general population....they are MUCH better than the average player.


The average CAN'T do GoP without a Cleric. The average CAN'T take Harry down in 1.2 rounds. The average DO worry about party makeup...and sometimes for good reason. They probably don't want to get a group together, spend time and resources and NOT have a good chance to succeed. Again, there are a-holes, but some groups genuinly want to succeed for all involved.


Again, I'm not advocating anything other than for folks here to consider the fact that some people out there aren't as skilled, well-equiped or experienced as the rest.


Just something to think about all.

[Dexxaan]

And if you fail? repairs cost less than 1% of the costs of the scrolls you would have used if you had stuck in to the end......and without completion, regroup and try again.
Why the fuss/hate?

It´s a matter of wasted time, and I know many of us have very limited time.

I have extended periods of time when I have 2 hours of total playtime...maybe 3 hours and only about 3 times a week.....If my guild is in "lowbiemania" or just pursuing their own thing and I´m in a PUG do I want the Cleric to be 4 Bard 2 Fighter 10 Cleric? Nope.

Minimization of failure chances is where a good Raid leader starts to shine. Of course understanding the value of Odd yet functional Builds like the OP stated is important IMO.

[Renegade66]

IMO, the only way a player can be a drain on the party is if that player goes AFK once inside the quest. I'm unsure how 1 player can drain a party of 12 unless the other 11 where hoping that Mr. 12 would do all the work.

I'd take no Cleric or a Cleric that goes afk in the quest over a Cleric where you find out too late that he's useless and will wipe your party (or at least severely hinder your zerging efforts) due to his incompetence. At least with no Cleric you can work a plan around him.

Oh, off topic a bit. Last night there was the best Shroud LFM ever. I forget his name, but it was something like this.

"Shroud Completion Need Guide. No Muppets! and I'm not talking about Jim Henderson either."

We flooded General Chat with comments, such as;
You know you're a Muppet when you need a guide for the Shroud.
and
You know you're a Muppet when you think it's Jim Henderson and not Jim Henson.

I personally don't understand the whole Muppet thing, don't think it's ever been funny and has certainly long ago worn out it's play, but we had a blast abusing that poor guy.