New form of Censorship?

[branmakmuffin]

Keep trolling for new things to say to me.

In other words, I know. I don't know why you chimed in on this to quote me.

Because you apparently are surprised that forum rules apply in this particular forum.

[tharveysinjin]

Last time I looked freedom of speach is in the constitution. Plenty of people died for that beautiful document. This is coming from a vet. Yes this is a private forum and I haven't broken a single rule in it, I was making a comment. If you want censorship enjoy.

The Bill of Rights to the US Constitutions enumerates individual rights which you have and upon which the government is not supposed to infringe. The important clarification being that the board moderators are not members of the government, and, because they own the site, they have the right to remove content that they do not like. If they choose to do so, this is still not a violation of your constitutional rights because:
a. They are not the government
b. You ostensibly read the forum rules when you created an account, and you therefore ostensibly recognize that you agreed to the forum rules, where it explains that the moderators have the right, as representatives of the owner of the forum, to remove, edit, lock or otherwise modify posts that are made by you.

[vanderberg]

This thread is stupid. Here's an analogy for all your freedom of speech advocates on forums.

It's like I walk into your house and start yelling at you on how you're raising your children.

It's not my house but you think I still have the right because I have the freedom to speak?

Insane.

[Tarrant]

Hmm, what exactly do you mean by your comments being changed and modified? Are we talking about the content filter for "naughty" words? Or did some mod actually take the time to edit your meaning?

Content filter gets a huge /shrug from me. Thoughtful editing a post by a mod would be another thing entirely. I would be upset as well. Delete a post or even a thread, its their ball and they can take it and go home any time they like.

While we may remove certain words, or edit out an overly hostile tone, we will never change the meaning of a post.

[Kistilan]

Because you apparently are surprised that forum rules apply in this particular forum.

I think you're getting me confused with someone else - or just trying to type for type's sake.

But hey, please feel free to PM me any time you think I don't understand something.

[Osharan_Tregarth]

I think you're getting me confused with someone else - or just trying to type for type's sake.

But hey, please feel free to PM me any time you think I don't understand something.

How in the heck is my ignore button supposed to work when you people keep quoting him? Hmmmm?


As far as the original topic goes...

You only have to go dip into the 4-chan cesspool to see what unrestrained forums look like. Even though I may not always agree with the Turbine forum moderators, I like the fact that they exist.

[faldordadink]

this Thread Is Stupid. Here's An Analogy For All Your Freedom Of Speech Advocates On Forums.

It's Like I Walk Into Your House And Start Yelling At You On How You're Raising Your Children.

It's Not My House But You Think I Still Have The Right Because I Have The Freedom To Speak?

Insane.

Qft

[flamberg]

The Bill of Rights to the US Constitutions enumerates individual rights which you have and upon which the government is not supposed to infringe. The important clarification being that the board moderators are not members of the government, and, because they own the site, they have the right to remove content that they do not like. If they choose to do so, this is still not a violation of your constitutional rights because:
a. They are not the government
b. You ostensibly read the forum rules when you created an account, and you therefore ostensibly recognize that you agreed to the forum rules, where it explains that the moderators have the right, as representatives of the owner of the forum, to remove, edit, lock or otherwise modify posts that are made by you.

Never said anything about this forum and the moderators. I tow the line in here. Not saying that at all. This was started about another forum where a persons post was edited and modified. Yet his name was still on it. I had made a remark about political sites how your censored there. I dont care if someone censors what I put in here hey its a game. But if you sit there and are bashing a side dont care which side it is that other side has a right to defend itself. For the guy or gal that was saying about someone coming into my house yelling at me about how I am raising my kids. Yada yada yada well A)The government does it all the time. B) if your a private person you would be removed by force. If you think its ok that our rights are dwendling day by day hey your choice. I choose to fight for what little rights I have left. I was making a simple insight into it.

[TechNoFear]

Last time I looked freedom of speach is in the constitution. Plenty of people died for that beautiful document.

I think that you should realise that you are now living in the _world_, not the US.

Many people reading this may not have been on the US side of the confilcts you reference.

Many of us could care less about US rights, especially when the US often denies any/all rights to non US citizens.

[Vardak]

While we may remove certain words, or edit out an overly hostile tone, we will never change the meaning of a post.

Thank you for the clarification, I don't see much of a problem with that. I think it would be appropriate to make it reasonably obvious that a specific post had been edited.

[Vardak]

Did not personally attack anyone in this forum. I didnt say anything wrong here. I just said our freedoms are going away if your ok with that then thats your place. My place is to say my thing when I feel its appropriate. Last time I looked freedom of speach is in the constitution. Plenty of people died for that beautiful document. This is coming from a vet. Yes this is a private forum and I haven't broken a single rule in it, I was making a comment. If you want censorship enjoy.

I think I may have come across more harshly than intended, my apologies. What I'm trying to say here is that all of us need to better understand our freedoms before we attempt to exercise them. Your comment regarding people dying to protect our freedom is correct yet misapplied. I believe that such comments marginalize our service.

There are many subjects that we could talk about here that might result in our posts and threads being deleted. I very much doubt anyone has had a knock on their door by a representative of the US Government with questions regarding their comments here.

[baddax]

I think that you should realise that you are now living in the _world_, not the US.

Many people reading this may not have been on the US side of the confilcts you reference.

Many of us could care less about US rights, especially when the US often denies any/all rights to non US citizens.

While your opinions may not be uncommon i find them unfortunate. Yes i agree that we are all citizens of the world. Yes i also agree there has been some confusion in the debate as to specifics. so if i can clarify a few trhings.
1) The inital thread was about a few specific incidents in my personal experience on the internet. please read my initial post for specifics.
3) I am a citizen of the U.S. currently residing in the U.S. so what i say will be refrenced to those conditions.
4) Thank you for noting that others readers may not be as fortunate as some of us to enjoy the basic freedoms that we in the U.S. often take for granted.

I find your last comment about not caring about U.S. rights as a sad unfortunate reflection on the state of world affairs today. However seeing that your first statement noted we are all world citizens, i would think you would more reflect a world opinion of respect and understanding. Respect/understanding on an individual level, as we as americans may or may not agree with the current or past practices of our government on a variety of issues.

Lastly i guess that i myself am currently grapling with understanding how I right a message in my home in the US, post it on a board that may not be located in the US and then is accessed and read by a person on another computer who may or may not be in the us. So all 3 participants in this example could be in different countries bound under different speach laws and regulations and the implications of such. Then adding into the mix that the board has ownership rights to censor or not any given content is quite mess.

[Kistilan]

While your opinions may not be uncommon i find them unfortunate. Yes i agree that we are all citizens of the world. Yes i also agree there has been some confusion in the debate as to specifics. so if i can clarify a few trhings.
1) The inital thread was about a few specific incidents in my personal experience on the internet. please read my initial post for specifics.
3) I am a citizen of the U.S. currently residing in the U.S. so what i say will be refrenced to those conditions.
4) Thank you for noting that others readers may not be as fortunate as some of us to enjoy the basic freedoms that we in the U.S. often take for granted.

I find your last comment about not caring about U.S. rights as a sad unfortunate reflection on the state of world affairs today. However seeing that your first statement noted we are all world citizens, i would think you would more reflect a world opinion of respect and understanding. Respect/understanding on an individual level, as we as americans may or may not agree with the current or past practices of our government on a variety of issues.

Lastly i guess that i myself am currently grapling with understanding how I right a message in my home in the US, post it on a board that may not be located in the US and then is accessed and read by a person on another computer who may or may not be in the us. So all 3 participants in this example could be in different countries bound under different speach laws and regulations and the implications of such. Then adding into the mix that the board has ownership rights to censor or not any given content is quite mess.

*nods in agreement*

I could go on the whole "military service so we have freedom of speech" tirade, but won't. (I do this service for a lot of reasons, that's just one of the benefits for all US Citizens). It does make sense that this is Turbine's house, so their rules apply. However, it's fairly unrealistic to play in a "living, breathing fantasy world" where "politics can happen," yet the off-topic chat is barred from IRL (off-topic ie not DDO Fantasy world) politics. The sad thing about politics is it will innately create diversity and clashes, so the easier thing to do is bar said discussion. In that, it makes sense, or else we'd all have to suffer through countless threads of name-calling and moderation and infraction points.

That said, I still completely agree with your assessment of the world and free-speech over the Internet, baddax. The noble thing to do, is of course, turn the other cheek and walk away because we know we can PM things or have our own forums to discuss and persuade (or bicker and argue, as some prefer *L*) our values, opinions and prejudices.

PS: My ventrilo is always open to DDO players that aren't going to spam it! Link is on my myspace. You can chit chat there all day (it's static).

Caveat: If you're on my ignore list, don't come talk to me -- you can talk to the other people there though!

[Aranticus]

i'm not an American but i took American History in uni and have ever since been interested in the American ideals. freedom of speech, right to bear arms and many other Bill of Rights have constantly been abused by many people

the 1st Amendment is as follows

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

while in essence that the 1st Amendment promote freedom of speech, it does not guarantee freedom of speech. the 1st Amendment serves to protect an American who speaks up against the government. as specified in the Constitution, "Congress shall make no law...." specifically covers freedom of speech against rules and regulations passed by the Congress. this has however been applied to the other branches of powers. in cases of private institutions, the 1st Amendment holds little power unless the sancity of a person is violated

freedom of speech however does not encompass every aspect of "free speech". take this senario for example

A calls B a thief, B sues A citing libel. A cites freedom of speech in defence

should it be proven that B is indeed a thief, then freedom of speech applies. however, if B is innocent, then A has committed libel/slander. freedom of speech protects a person who speaks up against wrongful acts, it does not allow a person to have absolutely no inhibition in whatever he/she says