helpful build advice plz

[Vaarsuvius]

I originally posted this In the classes general discussion waited a couple of days and got no response, Please let me know what you think.



WF LG 10ftr 3pal 3monk
str 15+1tome+2ftr+4lvls+6item=28
dex13+1tome+6item=20
con19+1tome+2WFcon+6item=28
int8+2tome=10
wis8+1tome+1monwis+6item=16
cha10+1tome+1palcha+6item=18



saves
fort 35
reflex 26
will 25



Feats
in no particular order

Bullheaded
Toughness
Lightning reflexes
Iron will
luck of heroes
power attack
cleave
great cleave
imp crit slashing
exotic weapon prof khopesh
sheild mastery
Imp sheild mastery
skill focus intimidate



Enhancements
Wf con 2
WF brute fighting 4
wf balance 3
WF will save bonus 3
healers friend 1 or 2?

monk wis 1
monk improved recovery 1 (stacks with healers friend??)
way of the tortoise 1

ftr str 2
ftr toughness 4
ftr intimidate 3

pal cha 1
pal save aura 1
xtra LOH 1


Ideal Loot
Besides the raid loot I have most of this

Levicks Defender
Leviks Bracers
Docent of defiance
Madstone boots
+6 con ring
+6 cha cloak
+6 wis ring
+6 dex gloves
+15 intim helm
Bloodstone
Boots of innocent (switch inbetween madstone procs)
greensteel goggles (corrosive salt guard cold resist 40 +15 hps)
Greesteel belt (disintegration guard acid resist 40)
greensteel neck (incineration guard Fire resist 35 +20 hps)
greensteel khopesh (likely mineral2)


The general Idea here is an Intimitank with high DR and HP not AC
I also considered going 12 fighter 2pal 2 monk, i would then lose fear imm and a couple enhancements that depend on lvl3 pal and monk, in return i would get an xtra feat I dont think I need

any suggestions are appreciated


Thanks in advance,


V

[Kistilan]

Will any of your monk abilities work with the khopesh & shield?

I just don't see any superior gain for the monk levels. I thought at first you were going unarmored and heightened will for extra armor class, which would have made sense, but you lose that with the shield equipped.

Will Way of the Tortoise work while wielding a shield?

[cm2_supernova]

greensteel goggles (corrosive salt guard cold resist 40 +15 hps)
Greesteel belt (disintegration guard acid resist 40)
greensteel neck (incineration guard Fire resist 35 +20 hps)
greensteel khopesh (likely mineral2)

Hope you like running the shroud...looking like at least 60 runs with this toon to get all those greensteel items

[Aranticus]

I originally posted this In the classes general discussion waited a couple of days and got no response, Please let me know what you think.



WF LG 10ftr 3pal 3monk
str 15+1tome+2ftr+4lvls+6item=28
dex13+1tome+6item=20
con19+1tome+2WFcon+6item=28
int8+2tome=10
wis8+1tome+1monwis+6item=16
cha10+1tome+1palcha+6item=18



saves
fort 35
reflex 26
will 25



Feats
in no particular order

Bullheaded
Toughness
Lightning reflexes
Iron will
luck of heroes
power attack
cleave
great cleave
imp crit slashing
exotic weapon prof khopesh
sheild mastery
Imp sheild mastery
skill focus intimidate



Enhancements
Wf con 2
WF brute fighting 4
wf balance 3
WF will save bonus 3
healers friend 1 or 2?

monk wis 1
monk improved recovery 1 (stacks with healers friend??)
way of the tortoise 1

ftr str 2
ftr toughness 4
ftr intimidate 3

pal cha 1
pal save aura 1
xtra LOH 1


Ideal Loot
Besides the raid loot I have most of this

Levicks Defender
Leviks Bracers
Docent of defiance
Madstone boots
+6 con ring
+6 cha cloak
+6 wis ring
+6 dex gloves
+15 intim helm
Bloodstone
Boots of innocent (switch inbetween madstone procs)
greensteel goggles (corrosive salt guard cold resist 40 +15 hps)
Greesteel belt (disintegration guard acid resist 40)
greensteel neck (incineration guard Fire resist 35 +20 hps)
greensteel khopesh (likely mineral2)


The general Idea here is an Intimitank with high DR and HP not AC
I also considered going 12 fighter 2pal 2 monk, i would then lose fear imm and a couple enhancements that depend on lvl3 pal and monk, in return i would get an xtra feat I dont think I need

any suggestions are appreciated


Thanks in advance,


V

your saves are already thru the roof with this build, dun need that many feats. i'd drop shield mastery feats, you have monk levels, i dun think the shield stacks with the wisdom (dun really play monks) if they really dun, then going twf is a much better idea. with that many negatives, no divine favor, no full bab and PA, you'll want weapon focus and specialisation feats. also i'll suggest making a concordant opposition item to free up the wis item slot

[Lewcipher]

As soon as you equip that shield you lose your wis bonus to ac, and any other monk benefits. It would seem a little better to go rogue, as you can get evasion that way as well.

[ShadowFox1978]

You are better off with 2 rogue. That will get you your evasion and maxed UMD. The monk levels are getting you nothing but 2 feats. Your wisdom bonus won't work with a sheild, and your wisdom bonus is not high enough without a sheild to make any kind of AC boost without armor bracers.

[Kistilan]

As soon as you equip that shield you lose your wis bonus to ac, and any other monk benefits. It would seem a little better to go rogue, as you can get evasion that way as well.

That was going to be my suggestion based on your ratification.

Yeah, what Lew said.

I was trying to do a monk-shield type just like you and equipping the shield removes everything the monk is -- I just needed to confirm that with someone more experienced with monks & multi-monks. Needless to say, I didn't build this character.

Rogue would definitely be my pick too.

[Lewcipher]

That was going to be my suggestion based on your ratification.

Yeah, what Lew said.

I was trying to do a monk-shield type just like you and equipping the shield removes everything the monk is -- I just needed to confirm that with someone more experienced with monks & multi-monks. Needless to say, I didn't build this character.

Rogue would definitely be my pick too.

Ya. Have a monk 11/4/1 Ranger/fighter/monk hybrid. TWF works without being centered (you still keep the wis bonus to ac) just can't use stances and special attacks. It's the shield and armor that ya can't equip.

[Leyoni]

Warforged are able to use docents without it affecting monk WIS bonuses to AC. That is one reason to consider monk in a warforged multiclass.

But, as others have pointed out -- and as you yourself understand -- you are not going to get much AC out of this build in any case. It becomes very useful if you are going THF as your primary attack focus as it will work when you are not using your shield. And, you will get the centered bonus to AC as long as you don't have a shield as well.

You are also only gaining +2 AC from the paladin levels and nothing much else useful from that class.

I think the biggest problem with the build is that you are going intimitank without also going high AC. That means getting mass aggro and not having the AC to stand up to it.

With paladin aura you are looking at a top end AC in the low to mid 40's before buffs (whether shielded or counting on the monk WIS bonus). HP won't compensate. You may hit the 500 HP range and that sounds like a lot. But, it goes away really fast if you don't have the AC.

Being warforged you will be a healer's nightmare even with the enhancements.

My recommendation if you want an intimitank is go adapt this to a dwarf for better AC, equally good HP and more healer love.

[Vaarsuvius]

Let me start by saying thank you to all who responded, your opinions are welcome and appreciated.


I have an AC based dwarven intimitank atm 11pal/5ftr, very effective hits 66ac buffed atm and haven't pulled the chattering ring in 30+ titan runs bleh. After aquiring the Hound shield I saw the benefit of DR and thats what first sparked my intrest in this build. The goal being an intimitank that acheives the same goal with a different approach.

I considered rogue also, I tried monk lvls for the better saves, extra feats, evasion, and 3 or 4 enhancements, not for the wis bonus to ac which I am aware will be lost once I equip a shield. Also I dont think I will have enough skill points to max intimidate, balance, and UMD.

I took feats to increase my will and reflex saves, if I'm on my butt I can't hold aggro.

My end game AC will be better than a WF barbs just not on par with typical tanks but with the blocking DR I could be an asset to the party.

Then again maybe it'll be gimped.


Thanks again for taking the time to read and comment on this.

V


P.S. Does anyone know for sure if healers friend stacks with monk improved recovery? Also does WF dr enhancments and WF dr feat stack with blocking DR? I know they stack with eachother...

[Leyoni]

You clearly understood what you were getting into. I see how you are playing off the DR piece to compensate for lower AC.

DR from different sources usually do not stack. If the wiki were up there is a good explanation there IIRC.

The monk question might be better to ask in the monk forum. I do see plenty of warforged monks, so someone there should know.

[Varr]

The anti min maxer in me looks at this build and yells out...........save 7 build points by taking 19 con to 16.......and apply 1 to dex, 4 to wis, and 2 to cha. That gets you 7 more build true stat points for the cost of 3 true build con stat points. Since you really only have int as a dump stat, I would spread out what ya got more.

[ShadowFox1978]

WF and monk healing enhancements do stack. I have a WF monk with 2 tiers in each and get hit at 90% from divine.

[Vaarsuvius]

I may play with the stats a little but 16 con may be too low I need those HP for when I'm not holding the shift key

Kewl so 3rd lvl of monk may be worth it, all I get out of it is +1 saves and the first lvl of that enhancement.

I read the Definitive DR thread and still confused about those WF bonuses and stacking with blocking DR, might hae to play around with it.


Thanks again folks

Oh another ques: if I get improved shield bash, does the DR still apply whilst bashing or only the ac?

[Leyoni]

The anti min maxer in me looks at this build and yells out........

LOL.

Problem with that is the OP is counting on HP as a sort of hedge against the lower AC. Even with DR he is going to get hit a lot and take more damage from mobs than a high AC build with lower DR and fewer HP. Unless he has a cleric dedicated to healing him he is going to want the extra cushion.

I know, its only 2 HP per level. That's only 40 HP if level cap goes to 20. But, that is one more melee round for the cleric to get his heal spell off and that could be important.

Personally, I'm working on a warforged ranger build that will hit mid 50 AC w/o buffs and while dual wielding -- about 10 higher than this build. Started him at only 14 CON and it hasn't been an issue thus far. So, I basically agree with you. Still, OP may be looking at it differently.