Pally LoH lacking?

[Xanthrawl]

What's the deal with Paladins only getting ONE base LoH at level 16? Granted, they have three more they can get from APs, but honestly... do you think it's right that a level 3 pally has the same base amount of LoH as a 16 Pally? Also, do you think 4 LoH is enough for this content? With end-game mobs plus to hit being so high, I find you take far more damage than you can heal. You end up being an aura for the tanks, with a heal you can toss to the cleric (or WF to conserve some SP) in a pinch, and moderate DPS.

Also, what is the formula for LoH? I have found several online, but none of them seem to stack up properly in-game.

Edit: And why is Diplomacy a class skill, but intimidate is not? This is very anti-paladin nature. "Go kill the rest of my party, but LEAVE ME ALONE!" *hides in a corner*

[Verdant_Force]

I usually only use all 4 LoH's in full Shroud runs - sometimes even don't use them all on part 4 but I always do on 5. IMO, 4 is plenty for end game.

As for level 3 pallys getting the same as 16 pallys...level 3 pallys cant take the enhancements to get more. Yes, you do have to spend AP...but then again more than 1 LoH/rest is against traditional dnd rules IIRC.

I bring up the traditional dnd rules because you addressed one at the end of your post. Intimidate is not a class skill in pnp...

[Xanthrawl]

I usually only use all 4 LoH's in full Shroud runs - sometimes even don't use them all on part 4 but I always do on 5. IMO, 4 is plenty for end game.

As for level 3 pallys getting the same as 16 pallys...level 3 pallys cant take the enhancements to get more. Yes, you do have to spend AP...but then again more than 1 LoH/rest is against traditional dnd rules IIRC.

I bring up the traditional dnd rules because you addressed one at the end of your post. Intimidate is not a class skill in pnp...

In PnP DnD, Diplomacy is useful to Paladins. It is not a combat skill that makes your party take your aggro. The arguement is not valid. It's like comparing apples and Hondas.

As for traditional PnP rules, this is an MMO. Our HP, AC, Saves, Damage and everything else are drastically inflated. Once again, a comparison is very weak here. Certain things need to be tweaked when making a transition from PnP to MMO. Skills, unfortunately, were overlooked.

[Freeman]

In PnP, you don't get a set number of uses of LoH per day. You get a total number of HP that you can heal, based on paladin level * charisma modifier. However, you can determine how much you want to heal each time, instead of DDO's all or nothing approach, so you could use LoH multiple times in the same day. I think Turbine should consider allowing some increase in the base number of LoH/rest without having to spend action points. It could either be tied to levels(Maybe 1 more every 5th level) or connected to your charisma modifer.(That would more closely emulate a high-charisma paladin having more HP available in PnP)

[sephiroth1084]

"In PnP paladins get only 1" may be a weak argument, but I'm fairly certain that is what has driven most of the decisions Turbine has made regarding the classes. Rather than alter the classes themselves, they have made adjustments through enhancements.

Personally, I think that sucks. Even in PnP a single LoH was totally weaksauce (to borrow a term). Then with DDO's inflated everything, a single dose is even less useful. While the enhancement system fixes some of the inherent problems with some classes (such as paladin, fighter, rogue not getting many abilities after their first few levels), I feel Turbine really should have inserted class abilities at higher levels.

[Zenako]

The LoH formula is pretty straight forward.

(Paladin level + CHA Bonus) * 10 = HP healed per LoH.

So for a 16th level 30 CHA (+10 CHA bonus) paladin they heal 260 points base with LoH.

So that level 3 Paly with perhaps a 22 CHA is only going to be healing = (3+6)*10 = 90 points a pop, but that is still a huge portion of normal HP at those levels (usually overkill).

You can also pop the Divine Soveriengty (sp) Enhancements and at the second tier get a once / 10 minutes (IIRC) 1000 point Healing burst that fixes everything a HEAL spell would also fix too.

[Ralmeth]

In my experience, LOH is awesome to use as emergency healing either on yourself or someone else in the party. It doesn't replace the bulk of cleric healing needed in the middle of combat, but it's awesome in a pinch. If used this way, I found that the number of LOH I have is fine. I always wand whip to top off between fights (why do I see so many Paladins not do this?), and if you're doing a quest where you need lots of healing such as the Shroud, then you best have a Cleric around. I have just 3 LOH, and find this is plenty. It's a rare quest when I go through them all again because I'm only using them in an emergency. 9 times out of 10, I just end up using these at the shrine to top people off.

Now, to your point that Paladins at max level get the same base number of LOH as a lowbie Paladin, I do agree this should be changed most importantly due to the high AP cost of high level Paladin enhancements. In order to have more APs, in my opinion, the developers should do away with the highest tier LOH enhancement and instead give Paladins 1 additional LOH for free at level 14, thus freeing up much needed APs for other things and giving an additional bonus for going more pure Paladin.

[Verdant_Force]

In PnP DnD, Diplomacy is useful to Paladins. It is not a combat skill that makes your party take your aggro. The arguement is not valid. It's like comparing apples and Hondas.

As for traditional PnP rules, this is an MMO. Our HP, AC, Saves, Damage and everything else are drastically inflated. Once again, a comparison is very weak here. Certain things need to be tweaked when making a transition from PnP to MMO. Skills, unfortunately, were overlooked.

I was never arguing with you buddy, calm the flames down...

[SteeleTrueheart]

:gag: :bind: :gag:

I refuse to say anything on this subject lest the Devs find a way to take my suggestions, alter them so they suck and then implement them and in so doing destroy my beloved Lay on Hands ability.

[swordinstone]

Edit: And why is Diplomacy a class skill, but intimidate is not? This is very anti-paladin nature. "Go kill the rest of my party, but LEAVE ME ALONE!" *hides in a corner*

I agree, I put on an item that gave me +3 intimidate, and have been using it since, never put a point in it, but its a decent score for my level, due to the item and my CHA modifier. It feels, ahhh, right... im keeping the attention on me so the casters and archers can do their thing.

Not sure if this skill is in PnP, but NWNs had a taunt skill, based on CHA, and it was a class skill for pallys. Its a DC check against the target's concentration... it then lowers the target's AC by how ever much the check passed by (up to a limit of 4 or 5). I have a rouge I've been playing, and I put points into bluff, and it feels similar to how I was using taunt in NWNs.