Alignment change

[Thorboar]

No, it is NOT only people who want to squeeze a bit more power out of a build.

Its for people who say things like :

"****! Stability only works for TRUE NEUTRAL!!"
"True Chaos gives me negative levels?? I'm not Lawful... oh, ****!!"
"Was I drunk when I made this Character? What the heck made it Lawful??"
"After seeing the effects of the realm of Chaos in the Prison of the Planes, JohnnyRotten GiantSlayer rebelled against such disorder, swinging his beliefs harshly toward Law and away from his previous chaotic ways."

Not everyone is a Numbnut Min-Maxer.

Thank you....this all sounds familiar....

[Borror0]

/singed
/singed
/singed

I guess you do deserve that name... /heals his burns

[frugal_gourmet]

I wouldn't mind if alignment were eliminated from this game entirely. I'm not a big fan of it or the things that it effects. And obviously there is little roleplaying use for it.

[Fennario]

I am for alignment change as well. Its not gonna break anything, and being able to adapt your character to an always changing game is always a good thing. You can swap feats, enhancements, and spells, why not alignment and even skill points?

Here is a great example of why it would be good.

Many moons ago when the Demon Queen mod came out, there was a guy in my guild who played a Barbarian. He was a casual player, but did go on guild raid runs every once in a while. He didn't have the best gear or probably even the best build, but he was a hell of a guy and played the game well.

We were on the Demon Queen raid and he pulled the Marilith Chain. Now if you're not familiar with that item it is +5 chain mail with +6 Seeker, +6 Shatter, DR 5/Good or Lawful, and the dreaded Taint of Evil. Now that was a pretty good piece of loot at the time (and still is). Its the same thing as having the coveted Bloodstone. And for a Barbarian who doesn't care about his AC, its even more attractive.

He was really excited about it... until he realized he wasn't neutral. I told him not to worry about the negative level or to bank it and maybe in the future there will be an alignment change option. To his credit he put it up for a roll to any non-good character that would put it to use. If I recall correctly, a tactics build Dwarf fighter won it.

I could tell he was bummed about the whole thing though. That would have been his first piece of raid loot. Shortly after, he left the game and hasn't been back since. Was it because of this one particular night? Probably not, but who knows? If there had been an alignment change option, he certainly would have been happier about his character and his game time, and maybe he'd still be playing.

Anyways, I think an alignment change option would help the game more than hurt it.

[Silverjade]

I am for alignment change as well. Its not gonna break anything, and being able to adapt your character to an always changing game is always a good thing. You can swap feats, enhancements, and spells, why not alignment and even skill points?

Here is a great example of why it would be good.

Many moons ago when the Demon Queen mod came out, there was a guy in my guild who played a Barbarian. He was a casual player, but did go on guild raid runs every once in a while. He didn't have the best gear or probably even the best build, but he was a hell of a guy and played the game well.

We were on the Demon Queen raid and he pulled the Marilith Chain. Now if you're not familiar with that item it is +5 chain mail with +6 Seeker, +6 Shatter, DR 5/Good or Lawful, and the dreaded Taint of Evil. Now that was a pretty good piece of loot at the time (and still is). Its the same thing as having the coveted Bloodstone. And for a Barbarian who doesn't care about his AC, its even more attractive.

He was really excited about it... until he realized he wasn't neutral. I told him not to worry about the negative level or to bank it and maybe in the future there will be an alignment change option. To his credit he put it up for a roll to any non-good character that would put it to use. If I recall correctly, a tactics build Dwarf fighter won it.

I could tell he was bummed about the whole thing though. That would have been his first piece of raid loot. Shortly after, he left the game and hasn't been back since. Was it because of this one particular night? Probably not, but who knows? If there had been an alignment change option, he certainly would have been happier about his character and his game time, and maybe he'd still be playing.

Anyways, I think an alignment change option would help the game more than hurt it.

Sorry to nitpick but i think that he would have been able to use it being that if he wasn't neutral he would have had to be CG and as i recall taint of evil does not give a neg level if CG and barbs cant be lawfull.

[Fennario]

Sorry to nitpick but i think that he would have been able to use it being that if he wasn't neutral he would have had to be CG and as i recall taint of evil does not give a neg level if CG and barbs cant be lawfull.

Taint of Evil: Good aligned characters equipping this item suffer a temporary negative level until the item is removed.

Can't recall his exact alignment but it probably was Chaotic Good. I'm pretty sure the only alignments not touched by Taint of Evil are Chaotic Neutral, True Neutral, and Lawful Neutral. At least that's how I've always interpreted it.

Regardless, he passed on it at the time. Now that I think of it, this was at the time of the raid leader controlling the raid loot. So he actually won the roll, and then put it up for a re-roll which makes it even worse.

[HumanJHawkins]

This comes up every once in a while. There are plenty of players who hate the idea because they see their knowledge of how alignment works as a big advantage over newer inexperienced players. So, you will see people coming in and derailing your thread. Pretending that it can't work because Paladins would break, when the obvious answer is to restrict the allowed changes based on class, etc.

There are (of course) only 2 alignments in this game that anyone should ever take if their main concern is being effective... Lawful Good if it is an option (all except Barbarians), and Chaotic Good if not. But new players don't know this and build characters based on personality or role playing, then find that they can't wear Chaos Guards or use Pure Good weapons, etc. Thus experienced players can look down on their builds, call them gimped, and feel uber.

The more selfish of these experienced players don't want to give up this advantage. So, will fight tooth and nail, and use all manner of distractions and thread derailing attempts when this comes up. Just FYI.

[Uska]

No, it is NOT only people who want to squeeze a bit more power out of a build.

Its for people who say things like :

"****! Stability only works for TRUE NEUTRAL!!"
"True Chaos gives me negative levels?? I'm not Lawful... oh, ****!!"
"Was I drunk when I made this Character? What the heck made it Lawful??"
"After seeing the effects of the realm of Chaos in the Prison of the Planes, JohnnyRotten GiantSlayer rebelled against such disorder, swinging his beliefs harshly toward Law and away from his previous chaotic ways."

Not everyone is a Numbnut Min-Maxer.

No but most of the people crying for this are.

[Uska]

I hope you've never spoken to Fred, and never intend to reset your enhancements.

not even close to the samething they havent changed alignment from the start but have feats and enhancments.

[Fennario]

not even close to the samething they havent changed alignment from the start but have feats and enhancments.

Sure, but there was a time you could not swap feats before Fred arrived. Heck, there was also a time where my Sorcerer could not swap spells. That made for some very hard spell selection decisions back then. They changed these things to make the game better IMO. And I think allowing an alignment change and even skill point changes would make the game better as well... especially for the new/casual type player base.

[silverraven]

I wouldn't mind if alignment were eliminated from this game entirely. I'm not a big fan of it or the things that it effects. And obviously there is little roleplaying use for it.

Even WoW has alignment and that's the most simplistic MMO on the market.

Alignment IS Roleplaying. Alignment has been a staple of D&D since its inception. Paladin is Lawful Good Only, Barbs are Chaotic Only , Monks are Neutral Only....need I go on?

[Borror0]

There are (of course) only 2 alignments in this game that anyone should ever take if their main concern is being effective... Lawful Good if it is an option (all except Barbarians), and Chaotic Good if not. But new players don't know this and build characters based on personality or role playing, then find that they can't wear Chaos Guards or use Pure Good weapons, etc. Thus experienced players can look down on their builds, call them gimped, and feel uber.

That's false.

There is Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral, Neutral and Chaotic Good. At the very least.

[Turial]

..... Monks are lawful Only....need I go on?

Now you can go on.

[Fennario]

That's false.

There is Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral, Neutral and Chaotic Good. At the very least.

Lol, very true. An arguments can also be made for the two you left out:

Neutral Good: access to pure good weapons, as well as both axiomatic and anarchic.

Chaotic Neutral: access to Tainted items, as well as anarchic and chaotic weapons.

[Deathseeker]

Make it a respec option, but make you seriously earn it...

Make it a one time favor reward at 1000 favor. You can use it once, and that's it. That avoids people swapping for weapon of the month reasons, but does allow one to undo a bad choice at the beginning.

I like 1000 because it's high enough that it isnt super easy, but low enough that its possible. If you only have 200 favor on a toon, just reroll, no big deal. But if you have 600 favor, just wait til you get 1000 and your fine. If you dont need it...just hang onto the token in case you ever do.

I think that's a great solution...

[Silverjade]

Lol, very true. An arguments can also be made for the two you left out:

Neutral Good: access to pure good weapons, as well as both axiomatic and anarchic.

Chaotic Neutral: access to Tainted items, as well as anarchic and chaotic weapons.

I might go check later but i`m 80% sure you can use taint of evil with out a neg lev as CG.

[Bunker]

change alignment? bah.....

/turns on shredder

Now just hand me that petition.

[Varr]

Not only do I dislike the idea of alignment change, but I also dislike the ability to enhancement change and feat change and bards and sorcs ability to spell change. Characters should be built with cement, and not silly puddy. Make a mistake, adds character. Make a bunch of mistakes, reroll. Rigid and unpopular Im sure, but still my preferance.

[Borror0]

Chaotic Neutral: access to Tainted items, as well as anarchic and chaotic weapons.

Chaotic Neutral is the only one that doesn't make sense, to be honest.

You're leaving out Pure Good. If you'd have UMD, that wouldn't be a problem but if you got UMD then you should be Neutral.

[Fennario]

I might go check later but i`m 80% sure you can use taint of evil with out a neg lev as CG.

I'm pretty sure you have to be non-good to use Taint of Evil without the neg. My sorcerer is Chaotic Good, and I remember putting on that Spell Pen necklace from Chains of Flame and getting a neg level from it.