Big F'n Stick Build

[The_Phenx]

Just a heads up to anyone making a build like this and trying to max out the THF line at current cap.

You can't do it with a 14/2 rogue/monk, or even a 15/1 rogue/monk.

Your BAB at level 15 when you need to take GTHF will be +10 and it has to be +11. It will not be +11 until level 16.

The only way you can do it at current cap is to go 14/1/1 rogue/monk/fighter. You would take the 1 fighter level at 16 and use your fighter bonus feat for GTHF.

Which is still a viable build as you get the monk stances and wis bonus to AC with just the 1 level monk splash.

Yes you can.

Your BAB at lvl 16 is +12 As a 14/2 Rouge/Monk

GTHF is avail at 15th as it should be.

Its the way to go if your doing a warforged version... as opposed to a self heal halfling.

[Fennario]

Yes you can.

Your BAB at lvl 16 is +12 As a 14/2 Rouge/Monk

GTHF is avail at 15th as it should be.

Its the way to go if your doing a warforged version... as opposed to a self heal halfling.

It is and it isn't. It may say that on your character sheet, but your BAB at 16 is actually 11.

A monk and a rogue have the same 3/4 BAB progression. They both are at +0 at level 1.

While Flurry of Blows gives the monk a full BAB while centered, I'm pretty sure that does not count as qualifying for feats. (For example, a monk can't take Weapon Finesse at level 1 as you need a BAB of +1.)

So a level 14 rogue has a BAB of +10, and a level 1 monk has +0. Or a level 13 rogue has a BAB of +9, and a level 2 monk has +1. 10+0=10, or 9+1=10, leaving you 1 short of the requirement at level 15.

I originally had a dwarf similar to this build, but I rerolled him as a warforged. The 14/1/1 rogue/monk/fighter split actually works pretty well in my case. I think the only thing you really lose is the +1 wis enhancement that the 2 monk gets. You still get an extra feat, and you gain Fighter Toughness I, Fighter Strategy I (my guy has Stunning Blow), Fighter Intimidate I (have max intimidate as well as diplo... every little bit helps when you have a crappy cha), and all martial weapons (in case you want to pull out a great axe or something in certain situations).

[The_Phenx]

It is and it isn't. It may say that on your character sheet, but your BAB at 16 is actually 11.

A monk and a rogue have the same 3/4 BAB progression. They both are at +0 at level 1.

While Flurry of Blows gives the monk a full BAB while centered, I'm pretty sure that does not count as qualifying for feats. (For example, a monk can't take Weapon Finesse at level 1 as you need a BAB of +1.)

So a level 14 rogue has a BAB of +10, and a level 1 monk has +0. Or a level 13 rogue has a BAB of +9, and a level 2 monk has +1. 10+0=10, or 9+1=10, leaving you 1 short of the requirement at level 15.

I originally had a dwarf similar to this build, but I rerolled him as a warforged. The 14/1/1 rogue/monk/fighter split actually works pretty well in my case. I think the only thing you really lose is the +1 wis enhancement that the 2 monk gets. You still get an extra feat, and you gain Fighter Toughness I, Fighter Strategy I (my guy has Stunning Blow), Fighter Intimidate I (have max intimidate as well as diplo... every little bit helps when you have a crappy cha), and all martial weapons (in case you want to pull out a great axe or something in certain situations).

I see the reasons, but trust me you can take gthf I had it, then re-spec'd back to the dragonmarks...which I may switch around again later once the line is updated, but I may not.

And yep I took the 2nd monk level for the wis enhancement, It meant 1 more ac. Since monks gain access to kamas, it allows for wounders, vorpals, and the other effects you cant get on staves, and wont uncenter you so you still get the speed boost from air stance.

There are all kinds of variations possible on the theme. I just wanted a specific flavor in it.

[The_Phenx]

Shining Cresents WOOHOOO.

Yes they work with Acrobat speed enhancements,
No they do not uncenter you
Yes they work with air stance.

[The_Phenx]

20th Reaver Run +3 con tome... WOOT!!!

362 hp now... 346 in air stance... Uber im half a dwarf.. truly...

[maddmatt70]

A couple of quick questions. I am currently leveling up my own q-staff rogue character. 1. skills? Did you put many points into balance? Since the 2nd tier of acrobat is immune to knockdowns and slippery areas - is there a point to putting points into balance? 2. To-hit. This is more of a strength based rogue general question, but do you ever have issues hitting? I would imagine without a power attack or ce on you can hit any target, but how often would you have one of those on and in what situations. Likely if a bard is in the group you have one on, but otherwise?

[Shuluth989]

Maddmatt70, out of curiosity did you go Halfing, WF, or other? Also, what is your anticipated build template going to look like at lvl 20? I have been playing around with this style of build and currently have a WF 1 Monk/4 rogue. Kinda waiting to see what they do with Acrobat 3. If there is nothing special thinking a WF 13 rogue/1 monk/6 fighter (for Kensai I) would be nice. With ftr 6 (Kensai I)You get a boost in dps, especially for noncrittable mobs, better to hit, more hp's, better tactics, and 2 fighter feats to work with. Cleave and diplo has been fun, so far. Hehe.

[maddmatt70]

Maddmatt70, out of curiosity did you go Halfing, WF, or other? Also, what is your anticipated build template going to look like at lvl 20? I have been playing around with this style of build and currently have a WF 1 Monk/4 rogue. Kinda waiting to see what they do with Acrobat 3. If there is nothing special thinking a WF 13 rogue/1 monk/6 fighter (for Kensai I) would be nice. With ftr 6 (Kensai I)You get a boost in dps, especially for noncrittable mobs, better to hit, more hp's, better tactics, and 2 fighter feats to work with. Cleave and diplo has been fun, so far. Hehe.

hmm.. As I pointed out in other threads Kensai I as currently posted by the developers is horrible do not do it at least unless the two handed splash damage that a two handed kensai gets is totally broken stay with rogue levels or take a 2nd monk or 1 fighter level but for sure go 18 rogue so you can get acrobat 3. You will lose out on sneak damage of 3d6 + enhancements so you lose out on dps actually if you do it. I have a ranger which is likely going to become a mule eventually because kensai I sucks so bad. Etc. Etc. Etc. Etc..

Edit: my build template will be 19 rogue 1 monk I think.

For the racial decision I went a little less powergamey/took a risk and went dwarf. The best two races at the moment are halfling or warforged. Halfling for saves, sneak damage, and dragonmarks and warforged for splash damage coming in mod 9. I think dwarf is third because they have nice hit points without the wf friend/healing issues. The risk part for me was to qualify for stalwart defender and in certain situations go into defensive stance via the stalwart defender when that becomes available to dwarves in mod 10 (according to the devs it looks likely that it will not be available to dwarves next mod).

[Shuluth989]

Thanks for the response. Yeah everything hinges on what Acrobat 3 is going to look like, and what the weapon effects from 2HF is going to look like. That is why I only have been experimenting with the build concept and will stop at lvl 7 until there is more concrete information. I really wish we had more information on the racial enhancement lines as well, such as Dwarven Defender, Juggernaut, and Dragonmark Heir. Dwarven Defender is the most intriguing but we will have to wait until mod 10 unfortunately. Not sure if I want to go max dps with WF and 2HF, or more defensive with Dwarven Defender, or even sneak attack enhancements and possibly dragonmarks with Halfling. I am so use to high saves and self healing on my toons, too. I will just have to wait until their is more information before I make my final decision. Hope you enjoy your build.

[direwolf33]

A couple of quick questions. I am currently leveling up my own q-staff rogue character. 1. skills? Did you put many points into balance? Since the 2nd tier of acrobat is immune to knockdowns and slippery areas - is there a point to putting points into balance? 2. To-hit. This is more of a strength based rogue general question, but do you ever have issues hitting? I would imagine without a power attack or ce on you can hit any target, but how often would you have one of those on and in what situations. Likely if a bard is in the group you have one on, but otherwise?

Strength based rogues (I have one) are generally at a to-hit disadvantage compared to equally well built dex based rogues or (esp once you take aggro) higher bab pure strength melee. I haven't had to turn off PA lately in shroud/vod/hound though - with destruction armor, vod goggles, and radII.

[Cathabad]

A couple of quick questions. I am currently leveling up my own q-staff rogue character. 1. skills? Did you put many points into balance? Since the 2nd tier of acrobat is immune to knockdowns and slippery areas - is there a point to putting points into balance?

I'd like to second this question. Not sure if I should be putting points into Balance or not, anyone have an opinion on this?

[Dark-Star]

On mine (Acrobot) I put points into balance for two reasons:

1. It helps while leveling up.
2. It gives versatility if you ever decide another PrE is a better choice, (or twf for rogues becomes overly compelling).

I went WF for the coming Glancing Blow enhancements. To me there really is no other racial choice for a thf build now.

So far to hit is an issue w/o a bard in elite quests with Power Attack on. It's either a +5 staff or holy of pg with no PA on. Level 9 currently.

[The_Phenx]

A couple of quick questions. I am currently leveling up my own q-staff rogue character. 1. skills? Did you put many points into balance? Since the 2nd tier of acrobat is immune to knockdowns and slippery areas - is there a point to putting points into balance? 2. To-hit. This is more of a strength based rogue general question, but do you ever have issues hitting? I would imagine without a power attack or ce on you can hit any target, but how often would you have one of those on and in what situations. Likely if a bard is in the group you have one on, but otherwise?

1. Yes I put some points into balance... only because of the titan raid... While he can not knock you down he can still bounce you...so I aimed for the +34 I believe it is? while using a +15 item. There are other considerations tho... if you choose to change your enhancements for example.

2. I RARELY have issues hitting... his + th is very nice, I pull aggro a LOT and i use all +5 weapns. I find the only things I get into miss issues with are elite orthons and the monks in the monistary quest. Power attack turned off negates this very well. Bard negates all issues.
BAB is +12 as listed btw...

[cappuccino]

**** you for making this character idea!!! I just found it from another thread link.

Now your making me either delete a few charcters to create one (I am over limit) or go to another server and build, OR get another account!


Curse You OP

[Dark-Star]

Phenx and I did some comparisons in Meridia last night, I can attest that the swing speed is rediculous with all hastes going.

Still finding to hit to be an issue on mine so far with PA on. Some of that should be cured with madstone and level 16 buffs when Acrobot eventually gets there.

[The_Phenx]

**** you for making this character idea!!! I just found it from another thread link.

Now your making me either delete a few charcters to create one (I am over limit) or go to another server and build, OR get another account!


Curse You OP

ROFL... Have fun

[The_Phenx]

Phenx and I did some comparisons in Meridia last night, I can attest that the swing speed is rediculous with all hastes going.

Still finding to hit to be an issue on mine so far with PA on. Some of that should be cured with madstone and level 16 buffs when Acrobot eventually gets there.

Make sure to use high + weapons. (4 or 5) + Righteous, or greater banes, whjile your leveling up. That is what made the difference with me. (did some checking for you) Using +1's etc at low levels (I had to turn PA off depending on the buffs that I had gotten.

You can also take 1 enhancement point for fire stance and pick up a cheap +2 to your str to help out a bit, its a choice between 3.5% hasted alacrity and 1 ac or +1 th +1 damage, and at low levels that will help a bit.

Now that I have shroud staves Its only on the high AC mobs, and when I have aggro that I notice anything other than an occasional miss. (think elite orthon defenders, etc, and on those I turn PA off since Im usually stat damaging them anyway)

[D'rin]

So do you have crippling strike?

I have a WF version coming up and have a weakeninng of enfeebling q-stick waiting for him. I figure with the attack speed and crippling strike things strength is going to zero pretty darn fast.

I have to say this build is a blast to play. I am not sure what kind of greensteel I am going for yet but I have a ton of good stuff for higher levels(+4 holy of pure good to hold me over). I have about 4 friends that don't have quarter staff users so I get everything they don't want.

How are your saves? With the warforged the only thing I really have to worry about is hold monter I believe and the dang dance spell.

[The_Phenx]

So do you have crippling strike?

I have a WF version coming up and have a weakeninng of enfeebling q-stick waiting for him. I figure with the attack speed and crippling strike things strength is going to zero pretty darn fast.

I have to say this build is a blast to play. I am not sure what kind of greensteel I am going for yet but I have a ton of good stuff for higher levels(+4 holy of pure good to hold me over). I have about 4 friends that don't have quarter staff users so I get everything they don't want.

How are your saves? With the warforged the only thing I really have to worry about is hold monter I believe and the dang dance spell.

Yep I have cripling strike and a +3 w/e staff... also a +5 M/b I find myself doing various styles... if I'm solo fightiing a mob I tend to w/e or m/b it till I get auto crit break out my dreamspitter and drop him in 2 secconds....the spitter i think is my all around favorite toy... +5 greater evil outsider bane + deleveling... so a really nice to hit and it screws mobs all to hell...and since most of the new guys are evil outsiders...oooooOOOOOOOO

Although cleave with the earthgrab or lightning staff is sooo fun.... just too many options...

Base Saves are 20/26/19 so they are fine for most situations, and could be cranked up with my enhancement lines if i really want.

Updated the main post with current gear...

[The_Phenx]

Belt of Brute Strength Acquired... (CHEER)

Now just need the chattering ring and I'm all set.

Swapped in a +6 cha ring for the moment for a better constant UMD score.

20th Shroud is right around the corner too... unless I get my str tome I will be getting a cleansing essence and making a set of immunity gloves for him.