Big F'n Stick Build

[t0r012]

So started looking at this for a 28 point build but I kept coming back to a human.
so i lose 1 ac, guile line(this seems the biggest loss), the luck line and a few other things.
but i'm still leaning human none the less.

I'm seeing being able to pick up power attack and THF with the bonus feat at one being a huge advantage. plus the extra skill point per level helps pickup the slack from the monk levels.
Plus adding in the ability to take the skill point of my choice with adaptability sure I don't see it till 5 as opposed to 3 for halfer dex.

Any advantage to taking wisdom over dex or str with adaptability? Opinions please.

I'm also going to be grouping with a steady group with a cleric , barb and I think a necro. So the healing will be available so should I don't think the lack of dmark will hurt.
should I pick up an improved healing or is that a waste?

I'm also wondering about when I should take the monk levels I figure lvl 2 is a good one but should I vary from the plan in the thread since I'm human?
opinions when I should take the monk 2 lvl?

[The_Phenx]

So started looking at this for a 28 point build but I kept coming back to a human.
so i lose 1 ac, guile line(this seems the biggest loss), the luck line and a few other things.
but i'm still leaning human none the less.

I'm seeing being able to pick up power attack and THF with the bonus feat at one being a huge advantage. plus the extra skill point per level helps pickup the slack from the monk levels.
Plus adding in the ability to take the skill point of my choice with adaptability sure I don't see it till 5 as opposed to 3 for halfer dex.

Any advantage to taking wisdom over dex or str with adaptability? Opinions please.

I'm also going to be grouping with a steady group with a cleric , barb and I think a necro. So the healing will be available so should I don't think the lack of dmark will hurt.
should I pick up an improved healing or is that a waste?

I'm also wondering about when I should take the monk levels I figure lvl 2 is a good one but should I vary from the plan in the thread since I'm human?
opinions when I should take the monk 2 lvl?

You loose +1 ac +1 th +1 to all save and access to halfling dex and halfling luck and halfling guile enhancements.

You gain +1 feat +1 skill pt, not shure its worth it.

Taking dex over wisdom... your a rouge the dex helps reflex saves which keeps you from getting creamed in traps... AND your ac... the wisdom helps will saves and AC, I would stick with a bias towards dexterity. STR's advantage is obvious...

I would NOT get power attack at 1... your to hit will be to low to support it... I would take toughness instead... boost your survivability right away.

I wouldn't bother with improved healing. And the dragonmarks were originally taken to provide self healing until the umd score was high enough to count. I still miss them but the THF chain is more useful IMHO.

I don't see a reason to vary the monk levels. I put them where they were to provide access to enhancements to get your attacks and ac as strong as they could be at the lower levels.

Hope that helps.

[The_Phenx]

To those considering taking the THF line...

I see a pretty high proc rate on the glancing blow special attacks.

I could be wrong but its seems to land more when the opponent is stunned, blinded... really anywhere when your getting SA damage.

Saw several mobs where it landed about 75% of the time. !!! good stuff... that extra 2d6 holy damage on top of the glancing damage is sweet.


Sadly due to the bugs in slicing blow I think I am going to retire it....
Leaning more towards a 20th level feat swap... I am toying with dropping my umd focus and slicing blow, and taking combat expertise and improved trip.
Increase his boss tanking ability, and the +4 dc to trip means it will be landing a lot more and it does go nicely with the flavor of the build.

Not shure which direction to go yet...Will update as usual

[maddmatt70]

To those considering taking the THF line...

I see a pretty high proc rate on the glancing blow special attacks.

I could be wrong but its seems to land more when the opponent is stunned, blinded... really anywhere when your getting SA damage.

Saw several mobs where it landed about 75% of the time. !!! good stuff... that extra 2d6 holy damage on top of the glancing damage is sweet.


Sadly due to the bugs in slicing blow I think I am going to retire it....
Leaning more towards a 20th level feat swap... I am toying with dropping my umd focus and slicing blow, and taking combat expertise and improved trip.
Increase his boss tanking ability, and the +4 dc to trip means it will be landing a lot more and it does go nicely with the flavor of the build.

Not shure which direction to go yet...Will update as usual

Hey Phenx, I have been debating what to do with my thf acrobat character right now at end game. How do you feel preying mantis is doing at the current end game? Have you run with many other thf melee? I enjoy my character I just am afraid he will be gimped until they release thief acrobat 3 and/or they mess around with the attack speed some more. On my character if I get a +3 dex tome I could pick up all the twf feats and then I could go assasin at least until the thief acrobat prestige 3 comes out or just keep him on the shelf for a mod. What are your thoughts regarding preying mantis?

[The_Phenx]

Hey Phenx, I have been debating what to do with my thf acrobat character right now at end game. How do you feel preying mantis is doing at the current end game? Have you run with many other thf melee? I enjoy my character I just am afraid he will be gimped until they release thief acrobat 3 and/or they mess around with the attack speed some more. On my character if I get a +3 dex tome I could pick up all the twf feats and then I could go assasin at least until the thief acrobat prestige 3 comes out or just keep him on the shelf for a mod. What are your thoughts regarding preying mantis?

My thoughts were somewhat slim...I wasn't having much success at all, just didnt seem to be able to do enough dps... UNTIL!!! (cue uplifting music)

I made my Radiance II staff (holy+flaming burst+insight +4) and got all the THF feats.

I know people have said 10% is too low fo an effect rate, but I can say, there is very rarely a mob I am fighting who doesnt get blinded, they die very fast at that point. all added up each hit deals ~100 pts of damage and each crit ~140-150 (SA inclluded) +2 pts of str damage.

The glancing blows and effects procs are a LOT of extra dps on top of that...

On very high hp mobs.. like orange names... I beat them till blinded, then the crippling strike kicks in and I soon see auto crit, pop on the dreamspitter and they die in seconds.

And don't forget blinding gives the mob a 50% miss chance, its like free displacement.

I have absolutely no problems at all in the new content. trash, orange named.. they all die easily... and confidence is high all around.

AND---Cleaving with radiance is pretty freaking sweat... I have also seen mobs blinded off glancing blows as well, can't speak highly enough... it has definitely made the build that much better.

[Arkat]

Sadly due to the bugs in slicing blow I think I am going to retire it....
Leaning more towards a 20th level feat swap... I am toying with dropping my umd focus and slicing blow, and taking combat expertise and improved trip.

LOL! That's EXACTLY what I decided to do a couple days ago when planning out my version!

[t0r012]

You loose +1 ac +1 th +1 to all save and access to halfling dex and halfling luck and halfling guile enhancements.

You gain +1 feat +1 skill pt, not shure its worth it.

Taking dex over wisdom... your a rouge the dex helps reflex saves which keeps you from getting creamed in traps... AND your ac... the wisdom helps will saves and AC, I would stick with a bias towards dexterity. STR's advantage is obvious...

I would NOT get power attack at 1... your to hit will be to low to support it... I would take toughness instead... boost your survivability right away.

I wouldn't bother with improved healing. And the dragonmarks were originally taken to provide self healing until the umd score was high enough to count. I still miss them but the THF chain is more useful IMHO.

I don't see a reason to vary the monk levels. I put them where they were to provide access to enhancements to get your attacks and ac as strong as they could be at the lower levels.

Hope that helps.

yeah I have found PA killing my hits even on trash mobs but I do like the extra damage.

I'm wondering if I might be better taking PA and thf then for the first monk lvl at 2 taking precision, any thoughts?

Toughness would be a nice addition early as would dodge but I think focusing on the damage output early will help me/the party more.

[The_Phenx]

yeah I have found PA killing my hits even on trash mobs but I do like the extra damage.

I'm wondering if I might be better taking PA and thf then for the first monk lvl at 2 taking precision, any thoughts?

Toughness would be a nice addition early as would dodge but I think focusing on the damage output early will help me/the party more.

Power attack can be fine..I usually wait to take/start using it until after I can start chugging heroism potions... then the to hit issue is fairly negated. If you start missing you can always turn it off... (get a good staff too it helps.. I leveled with a +1 frost righteous rr halfling ML:2)

Dodge is nice.. but useless in the long run, 1Ac is no where near worth spending a feat on. I would still reccommend toughness as part of the long term success... after all you cant damage an opponent if your dead and you will need to take it eventually.

Precision should have no use in a build like this its a stance.. it can not be active with other stances, you cant put on power attack and then precision to make the to hit back up... but then again.. you would be just boosting your damage then cutting it in half... so I would have to say a big NO...

At your first monk level you will be picking up a good bit of damage output. Save an action point... so as soon as you level you can take monk air stance. Once you activate that you will get an immediate +2 to dex (+1ac, +1 reflex save) 10% increase to your swing speed, then open up your enhnacement panel and drag the storm strike icon to your hot bar, it is a KI based clickie attack that does and extra 1d6 electric damage. The only downside to airstance is a -2 to your con... which is why I reccomend toughness...it offsets this.

Dont worry about the damage.. it builds quickly... once you start putting actiion points into sneak attack training, and picking up rouge levels you will be amazed...just make sure someone else has aggro then wack the baddie in the back.

[The_Phenx]

LOL! That's EXACTLY what I decided to do a couple days ago when planning out my version!

Its a better choice if your a warforged for the tactics.. but I think even on a halfy it will be useful.

The situational ac will be great, and I should see around 30-34 dc on trips @ 20th level...depending on buffs of course...

[moorewr]

I'm curious to hear how your versions of this build are fairing in Shavarath content.

I just ran Sins of Attrition on mine, and I felt a lot like a frog in a blender. And of course the party will do either wounding or vorpaling and a thief-acro wont do either if they want to stick to their favored weapon. I tried out MoBB and weighted staves, as well as going for straight DPS. I died more often than I like to think about as well.

EDIT: earth staff or radiance seem like obvious weapon candidates, although the dps from earth in there is disappointing

[VowWoefist]

I would like to piggy-back off of moorewr's question...

I don't have tier III of my radiance completed nor do I have Dreamspitter and I am not going the weighted route (ditched that feat a while ago, cuz a) it never worked when I needed it too, and b) could never get ahold of a nice 5%).

Anyway, I would like some input as to best other alternatives for Orthons and Devils. Pure DPS thoughts would be helpful along with good things to use for stat dmg maybe (destruction, STR dmg, etc).

Thanks!

[maddmatt70]

I'm curious to hear how your versions of this build are fairing in Shavarath content.

I just ran Sins of Attrition on mine, and I felt a lot like a frog in a blender. And of course the party will do either wounding or vorpaling and a thief-acro wont do either if they want to stick to their favored weapon. I tried out MoBB and weighted staves, as well as going for straight DPS. I died more often than I like to think about as well.

EDIT: earth staff or radiance seem like obvious weapon candidates, although the dps from earth in there is disappointing

Its a rough mod for these builds. Hopefully Thief Acrobat 3 will be coming next mod and next mod will be soon.

[The_Phenx]

I would like to piggy-back off of moorewr's question...

I don't have tier III of my radiance completed nor do I have Dreamspitter and I am not going the weighted route (ditched that feat a while ago, cuz a) it never worked when I needed it too, and b) could never get ahold of a nice 5%).

Anyway, I would like some input as to best other alternatives for Orthons and Devils. Pure DPS thoughts would be helpful along with good things to use for stat dmg maybe (destruction, STR dmg, etc).

Thanks!

I stated it earlier.. but the thread is long so I will rehash

Earthgrab staff was VERY dissapointing... the mobs saves (in the new content) are way to high and I rarely if ever saw it land... even my small earthie army wasn't fairing too well.

The lightning II staff only did justice when the lightning went off which was rare...and the dps while ok was completely dependant on other folks being around... forget soloing. I hated always having to wait for someone else to smack them aorund so I could dart in. I still use it for battling elementals...and non dr red names... it honestly cant be beat for that.

I tried weighted... and if you followed the thread you know how that worked out... good but dissapointingly unreliable, and impossible to find good weapons.

Dreamspitter was nice...but the inability to bypass dr made it more just a fun toy at best.

So I bit the bullet and made my Radiance II staff... and it made a giant huge enormous difference... back in the game baby. It doesn't take too long to get them blinded...then the auto sneak attack kicks in, you pick up another 50+ pts of damage a swing, -2 to str ever swing (which equates to +1 to your ac every hit) a 50% miss chance from teh mob being blinded (free displacement), and on the really high hp mobs like super orthons/devils and orange names... it goes auto crit fairly quickly form the str damage from crippling strike... and once I see that I pop on the dreamspitter and finish them off VERY fast.

Confidence is high...it truly made all the difference in the world... wish I had made it from the start...I can solo effectively... I do not "have" to avoid aggro... amazing difference. Until I made that stick.. I was weary about playing him...after? it was completely fun all over again.. now I dont want to put him away.

Then add in that it seems like blinded mobs seem much more suceptible to proc effects on glancing blows....and the 15 pts + 3(avg) + 8(avg) extra from GTFH is sick.

In my opinion this build truly only needs two staffs... A min II (or+5 transmuting pg) and a radiance II...

The staff I built was Holy + Flaming Burst + Insight +4

As for dying.. you shouldn't be getting torn up... keep barkskin up, carry a shield wand, blur wand...and in trouble situation click uncanny dodge and you should be 60 or higher for your ac...and to reiterate once you aggro them they get blinded, get a 50% miss chance, and cant really hit you.

On to the stat damage topin M/B is best but none are really necessary with Radiance... since your stat damage comes from crippling strike as soon as they are blinded.

[The_Phenx]

Reserved for swing speed updates after today's patch.

[Arkat]

Ghin,

Is it possible many people reading this thread (especially the last couple of pages) are unaware of the exact relationship between Crippling Strike (the Strength Draining part specifically), Blindness, and Sneak Attacks?

Perhaps if they were, it would be much clearer why a Radiance II weapon in the hands of a sneak-attacking Rogue is SO powerful.

I would offer to explain it but it's your thread and I think it would be more appropriate for you to do it fully.

[The_Phenx]

Ghin,

Is it possible many people reading this thread (especially the last couple of pages) are unaware of the exact relationship between Crippling Strike, Blindness, and Sneak Attacks?

Perhaps if they were, it would be much clearer why a Radiance II weapon in the hands of a sneak-attacking Rogue is SO powerful.

I would offer to explain it but it's your thread and I think it would be more appropriate for you to do it fully.

Perhaps you are right... lol I will give it a shot & add it to the main post as well as here, leme know if I miss anything.

Crippling Strike & Radiance II
Crippling strike is one of the class bonus feats available to rouges...
It deals -2 strength damage to any opponent who is struck with a sneak attack.
Once any opponent reaches 0 in ANY stat they become vulnerable and every following hit is an automatic critical.

The reason Radiance II is so strong is on any successful critical hit (on a quarterstaff 19-20 die roll with improved crit) you will blind your opponent and deal 4d6 light damage. There is NO save against this.
Once Blinded the opponent recieves a 50% miss chance to any attacks against you, AND every following hit you land on him is treated as a sneak attack AND therefore gets the -2 to strength from crippling strike.

This is essentially a acrobats vorpal. You have a 10% chance (19-20 die roll) on every swing to blind & weaken & create an auto sneak attack/auto critical situation on any opponent who can be blinded. (essentially everything but red/purple named bosses)

All of my Greensteel/Shroud staffs are made with insight +4 as the final tier...its just TOO much ac to ignore. And I reccommend the Radiance II staff be built Holy + Flaming Burst + Insight 4

[Kasen_Darksword]

I wanted to know where it says that you get 10% boost to attack speed with each rank of acrobat? I assumed it was 5% for each rank. I have a simular build Jaslyn, going 13 rogue / 6 monk / 1 fighter. Can check it out on myddo at http://my.ddo.com/character/khyber/jaslyn

I have not crafted a single item yet and im sure a radiance staff will make for lots of fun.

One thing I know for sure is when I made acrobat II the other day I notice one staff wont even last an entire quest before breaking as I swing so fast. I will need to do adamantine rituals on them all.

[The_Phenx]

I wanted to know where it says that you get 10% boost to attack speed with each rank of acrobat? I assumed it was 5% for each rank. I have a simular build Jaslyn, going 13 rogue / 6 monk / 1 fighter. Can check it out on myddo at http://my.ddo.com/character/khyber/jaslyn

I have not crafted a single item yet and im sure a radiance staff will make for lots of fun.

One thing I know for sure is when I made acrobat II the other day I notice one staff wont even last an entire quest before breaking as I swing so fast. I will need to do adamantine rituals on them all.

Its not exactly known as Eladrin has never given hard figures for it. Best case we have determined 10% per level... worst case its 5% then 10%. It is definately more than 5% at each tier.

We would need someone to take acrobat I and count swings per minute for us to compare against...AND someone to count with a non acrobat ... if someone wants to volunteer this info...

One you get your greensteel staffs made they will hold up better...OR...you can take the first tier of rouge item defense enhancement....but yes the addy ritual is always a good choice.

[Arkat]

Perhaps you are right... lol I will give it a shot & add it to the main post as well as here, leme know if I miss anything.

Crippling Strike & Radiance II
Crippling strike is one of the class bonus feats available to rouges...
It deals -2 strength damage to any opponent who is struck with a sneak attack.
Once any opponent reaches 0 in ANY stat they become vulnerable and every following hit is an automatic critical.

The reason Radiance II is so strong is on any successful critical hit (on a quarterstaff 19-20 die roll with improved crit) you will blind your opponent and deal 4d6 light damage. There is NO save against this.
Once Blinded the opponent recieves a 50% miss chance to any attacks against you, AND every following hit you land on him is treated as a sneak attack AND therefore gets the -2 to strength from crippling strike.

This is essentially a acrobats vorpal. You have a 10% chance (19-20 die roll) on every swing to blind & weaken & create an auto sneak attack/auto critical situation on any opponent who can be blinded. (essentially everything but red/purple named bosses)

Yeah, I think that about covers it nicely.

[The_Phenx]

I would offer to explain it but it's your thread

More like my blog at this point