Why?

[darkrhavyn]

Why is it that no matter HOW loot is awarded in this game, people will find a way to gripe about it.

I for one am SO sick of hearing people moan about "Oh that is a caster item or thats a melee item" that I freaking barely raid anymore.


The devs got so sick of hearing they figured they'd put the loot into your chest under your name --but graciously allowed you to trade it if you wanted to.

What will it take for people to finally shut up and quit whining about "oh he should have let me have that or he shouldnt have rolled on that item"--for the devs to bind all loot to whoever it drops for ?

Seriously, everybody grow up...if you put up an item for a roll and dont object at the time to someone rolling on it, then dont get ****ed because someone you didnt want to win it does....simple solution..dont put it up for a roll and pass it to who you think should have had it.

[Kreaper]

Class related loot maybe? I dunno. They have it the way they do to encourage team play and interaction. It causes more problems than anything. Especially when the person getting the piece of loot has very little plat and/or decent gear and they feel cheated when others expect them to just give up a piece of raid loot. If Turbine would start awarding class related drops this issue would settle down.

[Kalari]

I have many theories on why people behave this way. control issues is a big reason to me. Also the feeling that one class cannot use said item as effective as another even though they have no clue on why a person may want an item. Point blank if a person feels that the item could be better used by a certain class it tends to close their minds to anyone else's interest in it. And if the items is bound on reciept it makes it worst. So even if your character has interest in collecting it for story purposes or what not it will be deemed an act of selfishness. And if its an extremely rare item there is no excuse in peoples eyes that it should be given to a person who can use it which I can kinda understand. But I do agree with you Op if the person puts it up for a roll it doesnt matter how they feel they are releasing it for others to potentially get. And even if the person winning does not seem to have a use for the item they should not become whinny or beligerant because of it.

[Aspenor]

Why is it that no matter HOW loot is awarded in this game, people will find a way to gripe about it.

I for one am SO sick of hearing people moan about "Oh that is a caster item or thats a melee item" that I freaking barely raid anymore.


The devs got so sick of hearing they figured they'd put the loot into your chest under your name --but graciously allowed you to trade it if you wanted to.

What will it take for people to finally shut up and quit whining about "oh he should have let me have that or he shouldnt have rolled on that item"--for the devs to bind all loot to whoever it drops for ?

Seriously, everybody grow up...if you put up an item for a roll and dont object at the time to someone rolling on it, then dont get ****ed because someone you didnt want to win it does....simple solution..dont put it up for a roll and pass it to who you think should have had it.

Personally, I consider a roll for loot not to be the final decision.

If I put up loot for roll, I consider each roll an "application" to receive the loot. But if a wizard rolls a 100 on Tharne's Bracers, or some other similar situation where I personally judge the person should not have rolled, then I ignore that roll and choose the highest roll of whom I feel should have the item.

In other words, it's still my loot until I assign it.

[silverraven]

Personally, I consider a roll for loot not to be the final decision.

If I put up loot for roll, I consider each roll an "application" to receive the loot. But if a wizard rolls a 100 on Tharne's Bracers, or some other similar situation where I personally judge the person should not have rolled, then I ignore that roll and choose the highest roll of whom I feel should have the item.

In other words, it's still my loot until I assign it.

I wish other people thought this way considering the last time I saw a +3 tome drop in the reaver with three wiz's and a thief, but a ranger who said they didn't need it, rolled anyway and took it. Although it shouldn't have been passed to him in the first place

[Do'Urden]

The preceding and current raid loot rules are no different in terms of potential for griefing by inconsiderate or ignorant idiots. Personally, however, I don't think the current raid loot rules had anything to do with volumes of complaints about raid loot distribution. Truth is, most raid parties at that time were guild or friend only short man groups (i.e. not open to PUGs). The new rules partly solved that *problem* although it's clear people are short manning raids again and excluding unknowns regardless of the reduced raid loot chances.

Here's the bottom line. Just putting something up for roll doesn't remove you from the responsibility that comes with having that raid loot drop under your name. It's up to you, and only you, to decide who is worthy of the loot beyond a simple die roll. Ask questions if you are unsure what benefits each requestor will derive from the item in question.

Just because a pure monk rolls on the Chain Shirt of Crippling doesn't mean you have to give it to him...and yes that is an actual example. The monk announced he rolled on the item to vendor it. I can give you other examples of griefing but you get the point I think.

People get mad when you don't let them roll on things they *think* they need or want. Too bad I say.

[totmacher]

when you find a perfect system to divvy a piece of loot based on people's perceptions of who should get it, peoples wants and whether they think contribution should be a factor, then you'll find there's no complaining about how raid loot is divvyed up

until then, there are always gonna be gripers. especially when it comes from people playing with people they don't know and trust.

it's like if, instead of at your job, your boss awarded your team/department/division a lump of money to be divided up at the end of the month/pay period. you don't think there would be arguments and stuff over that? gimme a break. and complaining about complaining is what makes this thread even more ironic

[baddax]

Comon people complaining about people complaing?!?! if you take complainging away then we might as well close the forums!

[darkrhavyn]

Personally, I consider a roll for loot not to be the final decision.

If I put up loot for roll, I consider each roll an "application" to receive the loot. But if a wizard rolls a 100 on Tharne's Bracers, or some other similar situation where I personally judge the person should not have rolled, then I ignore that roll and choose the highest roll of whom I feel should have the item.

In other words, it's still my loot until I assign it.

Which was sort of my point Asp....if you assign it over then you made the decision to do so...getting irritated and all after you do seems kinda childish to me.

And for the record..no I dont want DDO to bind the loot to the person it drops for...I am just tired of endless arguments about what loot people can have.

Lots of people have unique builds that dont fit the traditional models...so lots of items can be of benefit to lots of characters. I know that now with all the + 6 items and greensteel items that are out there, I cant really think that we need to be that picky about which class gets a item.

In the end, if its your item and you give it away, or if its your raid and you "allow" someone to roll on it , then getting *****y cause someone won the roll you didnt like seems a bit over the top.

[Kistilan]

I gotta say I ran with the Bloodlords yesterday and luckily there was no griping whatsoever about the raid loot (and specific Bracers cited above) in VoD. Also, everyone's favorite raid item (The Bard's Cloak) dropped yet again. Since absolutely no one wanted it, my Wiz with an 8 Cha took it for the clickie properties, which served him well in PoP not an hour later -- commanding mind flayers has never been so easy!

On topic, I feel bad for people that always get the short end of the stick, but I applaud those that persevere and continue to strive while being a team player. I've never pulled a +2 tome still ('cept 1750), nor a vorpal or banisher. I got my first paralyzer last month as an end-quest reward, not a chest item. I've done a few dozen raids and have about 7 pieces of gear between my characters, but I'm still kick'n butt and take'n names. If you love the game, it'll eventually pay you back even if it's a little bit at a time. If you're playing as a team, your team is gonna have your back and try to hook you up whenever they can.

And I also do agree, raid-loot could drop for class-appropriate first. Even if it wasn't 100% full-proof, a "class-check" roll first on an item list if raid loot was scored would be a smart dev project (and require about an hour worth of programming imo, and 2 days of testing).

PS: I'm taking Kist for a wild planar hoping trip to Khyber later this month, so you guys will have to suffer with only Thet as my high roller. I know, 147 hp rogue-fighter gimp drow, right? Pfft!!!! You never had it so good.

[Jondallar]

Though there are many nonstandard builds out there, they should realize that only within guild/friend groups will it be understood and accepted if they roll/take raid loot that would normally benefit another class more. Nonguildies and pugs could care less about the nuances of a build and how certain loot will move it into the final percentile of efficiency ( which is what all hard core raiders seek to achieve).

To expect others to show courtesy in loot assignment in a pug raid is unrealistic, to expect a pug to show courtesy in a guild raid is a no brainer if said pug wishes to continue to enjoy the privilege of raiding with a specific guild/group.

Nonstandard builds simply have to count on 20th completion ect. to obtain the rare/nonstandard loot the they require, if they wish to remain accepted by the general population. The samething goes in my experience even in guilds if a certain player consistently rolls and takes "non wanted items" resentment builds up becaus it s bad form and seen as greedy.

[Milolyen]

Hun, You know I love ya but you tend to take things a little too personal. If someone has a gripe over raid loot you get and need or you rolling on raid loot you need you REALLY need to tell them to just shut up and that goes double for the person that assigned it to you in the first place. Don't take things so serious or personal (I know, I know you can't help).

Milolyen

[Gol]

I was in Reaver a few weeks ago (on my Ranger, no less) and a pure Wiz 16 guy kept a +3 Str tome that dropped for him.

[Lithic]

I was in Reaver a few weeks ago (on my Ranger, no less) and a pure Wiz 16 guy kept a +3 Str tome that dropped for him.

Which can be VERY usefull to avoid being helpless with one symbol of weakness, not to mention staying unencumbered for those long hauls where you find 5 sets of full plate in chests.

Anyone who expects someone to give up a tome to a stranger for nothing is seriously kidding themselves. In your place, I would have offered the guy a +2 unbound str tome for the +3, or maybe some plat.

[alchilito]

I totally agree with Aspenor on this one. The other night, I pulled the cleric / paladin necklace from HoX and one of the clerics needed it to complete his set, I heard in the background as one of the rangers said "I am rolling for it since I could use it". So I simply said to him "buddy I am passing it straight up to the cleric, dont even think about it". Of course he wasnt happy, bu I sure as hell was . Anyway regarding Gol's situation with the +3 str tome, it is always nice when someone passes on a tome they cant really use, but in the end, it is THEIR loot so they can do whatever the hell they want with it. now what YOU do after such a situation is what really matters; greedy players make it into my squelch list easily and its their loss: they are not the ones leading multiple raids every time they log on.

[Vengenance]

I wish other people thought this way considering the last time I saw a +3 tome drop in the reaver with three wiz's and a thief, but a ranger who said they didn't need it, rolled anyway and took it. Although it shouldn't have been passed to him in the first place

Why not, because you say so? Maybe that +3 Int tome took him to an INT of 13 so he now can get Combat Expertise for an additional +5 AC.

If you pull the loot then it's your loot, do w/e you want to with it. If you put it up for a roll and some off class gets it, so what, it wasn't your loot to begin with so don't complain. If someone gets a piece of loot they can't use and decide to put it up for trade or for sell instead of placing it up for a roll, again so what, it's not your loot it's theirs they can do with it what they want. Apply this simple concept to all raid loot and all of the petty and personal problems disappear.

It's your loot, do with it what you want. For everyone who has their own opinion on raid loot, when you pull it, do with it what you think is right.

I personally put loot up for a roll if I can't use it and give it to the highest roll regardless of class. It's not my character so why should I judge them on the loot they want.

[faldordadink]

I guess I have been fortunate that I have never seen any squabbles over raid loot, but then again I have always believed in the do whatever you want with your loot, keep it, trade it, sell it or give it away, every scenario has its place, example on my wizzy I get a +3 dex tome all of a sudden I get several tells so I opened it up to an auction, walk away with a +2 intel and 4 larges (prob could have got more but its what I had in mind to finish my tier 3 and the intel was for a future build) another time +3 wisdom tome with no clerics in party, all I heard was congrats so I ate it, one other situation was after hound I got loricks necklace and a pally got breatplate of destruction I offered a swap and he agreed, everyone happy (ok maybe the clerics were drooling but they didnt say anything ) and this one time at bandcamp...
well you get the idea

to make a short story long, relax people if someone pulls a greedy boneheaded move chalk it up to misfortune and add him to your bad list, smile and walk away

it is just a game after all

[darkrhavyn]

Hun, You know I love ya but you tend to take things a little too personal. If someone has a gripe over raid loot you get and need or you rolling on raid loot you need you REALLY need to tell them to just shut up and that goes double for the person that assigned it to you in the first place. Don't take things so serious or personal (I know, I know you can't help).

Milolyen

Thank you hun, but I was actually more talking about the multiple threads that have shown up in the forums lately re: "so and so is an idiot cuase he took my caster bracers", yadda yadda yadda....

I genuinely have never been MAD at someone for taking an item I would have liked to had for MYSELF...now Ive been upset for other people when I felt like they were being cheated, but at this point, my chars wont be "broken" by not having the newest bauble or armor.

I do feel for people who seem to have sucky luck at getting items they want, I just dont get why they play a GAME that makes them mad --I play to have fun, not get mad.

[Redcoil]

I limit who I let roll. If I get the Hound Necklace... I say clerics and bards unless they have it, I'll open up to others. 6wis is nice, but imp heal is better. If Im gonna give it away, I can decide who to give it to.

[totmacher]

i really think +3 tomes shouldn't be classified as raid loot

other stuff is very unimportant compared to how often a +3 tome drops. I seen +3 strength tomes left in chests because people don't take it seriously