Can we get a Developer to comment on Spot?

[parvo]

I'd still like a Dev comment on this one. We're building characters here. Especially skill points that can't be re-specified, we deserve an answer on whether the change is a bug, intentional or what.

Again, from the User Guide based on original code:

"Trapfinding Feat: Defensive - Traps. Rogues can use Search skill to locate traps when the trap has a Difficulty Class higher than 20. Recieved level 1."

The original Rogue Trapfinding Feat had nothing to do with Spot.

[SqtYork]

for ranged based attacks low spot / listen means you have to get that much closer before you can hit them. I try to get at least a 5 - 10 spot so I can see / hit stuff at range.

[Rameses]

Many of us believe Spot skill was recently changed so that only Rogues could Spot traps over DC 20 (Danger Sense). Was this indeed a change? Why? And will it be changed back? A lot of high Spot non-rogue characters are left wondering if they have wasted skill points.

Parvo,
I think you owe it yourself and the community to try Perma-zerg before you get out.

Other than that looking at my Rogue's feats there is a little Rogue Feat that is a granted feat called:
Trapfinding: Passive: A Rogue can find and disable difficult traps.

My guess that is the DDO translation of this PnP ruling on Trap Finding

Trapfinding
Rogues (and only rogues) can use the Search skill to locate traps when the task has a Difficulty Class higher than 20.

Finding a nonmagical trap has a DC of at least 20, or higher if it is well hidden. Finding a magic trap has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.

Rogues (and only rogues) can use the Disable Device skill to disarm magic traps. A magic trap generally has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.

A rogue who beats a trap’s DC by 10 or more with a Disable Device check can study a trap, figure out how it works, and bypass it (with her party) without disarming it.

Regarding Trap DC's and Search; PnP has this to say about it...

Mechanical Traps
Dungeons are frequently equipped with deadly mechanical (nonmagical) traps. A trap typically is defined by its location and triggering conditions, how hard it is to spot before it goes off, how much damage it deals, and whether or not the heroes receive a saving throw to mitigate its effects. Traps that attack with arrows, sweeping blades, and other types of weaponry make normal attack rolls, with a specific attack bonus dictated by the trap’s design.

Creatures who succeed on a DC 20 Search check detect a simple mechanical trap before it is triggered. (A simple trap is a snare, a trap triggered by a tripwire, or a large trap such as a pit.)

A character with the trapfinding class feature who succeeds on a DC 21 (or higher) Search check detects a well-hidden or complex mechanical trap before it is triggered. Complex traps are denoted by their triggering mechanisms and involve pressure plates, mechanisms linked to doors, changes in weight, disturbances in the air, vibrations, and other sorts of unusual triggers.

Magic Traps
Many spells can be used to create dangerous traps. Unless the spell or item description states otherwise, assume the following to be true.

A successful Search check (DC 25 + spell level) made by a rogue (and only a rogue) detects a magic trap before it goes off. Other characters have no chance to find a magic trap with a Search check.
Magic traps permit a saving throw in order to avoid the effect (DC 10 + spell level × 1.5).
Magic traps may be disarmed by a rogue (and only a rogue) with a successful Disable Device check (DC 25 + spell level).

These are my thoughts and do not represent the thougths of anyone else.
No Halflings were harmed in the making of this post.

I am, Rameses!

and I approve this message.

[parvo]

Parvo,
...Other than that looking at my Rogue's feats there is a little Rogue Feat that is a granted feat called:
Trapfinding: Passive: A Rogue can find and disable difficult traps.

My guess that is the DDO translation of this PnP ruling on Trap Finding


Regarding Trap DC's and Search; PnP has this to say about it...





These are my thoughts and do not represent the thougths of anyone else.
No Halflings were harmed in the making of this post.

I am, Rameses!

and I approve this message.

I think you owe yourself and the community a cucumber, aloe, and lavender body wash.

Perhaps you missed this, it's the crux of the issue and shows that the developers changed philosophy on spot. Again, from the User Guide based on original code:

"Trapfinding Feat: Defensive - Traps. Rogues can use Search skill to locate traps when the trap has a Difficulty Class higher than 20. Recieved level 1."

The original DDO Rogue Trapfinding Feat had nothing to do with Spot.

[Nevthial]

Parvo,
I think you owe it yourself and the community to try Perma-zerg before you get out.

OT, but...Perma-Zerg? Scary !!

[Opall]

I think you owe yourself and the community a cucumber, aloe, and lavender body wash.

Perhaps you missed this, it's the crux of the issue and shows that the developers changed philosophy on spot. Again, from the User Guide based on original code:

"Trapfinding Feat: Defensive - Traps. Rogues can use Search skill to locate traps when the trap has a Difficulty Class higher than 20. Recieved level 1."

The original DDO Rogue Trapfinding Feat had nothing to do with Spot.

Just a Question, and totally off topic:
What is he supose to do with the cucumber

[Ringos]

I'd still like a Dev comment on this one. We're building characters here. Especially skill points that can't be re-specified, we deserve an answer on whether the change is a bug, intentional or what.

Agreed. If it IS intentional, the Spot description (when hovering over the skill) needs to specify this.

[Gandalfs_Ghost]

I think you owe yourself and the community a cucumber, aloe, and lavender body wash.

Perhaps you missed this, it's the crux of the issue and shows that the developers changed philosophy on spot. Again, from the User Guide based on original code:

"Trapfinding Feat: Defensive - Traps. Rogues can use Search skill to locate traps when the trap has a Difficulty Class higher than 20. Recieved level 1."

The original DDO Rogue Trapfinding Feat had nothing to do with Spot.

Or it did and just wasnt documented.
Spot has no function in pnp for finding traps, its a guessing game based on (hopefully) hints offered by the DM.
In this game that mechanic would not work very well, heck people hardly wait for rogues to do their trapsmithing as it is, let alone if they had to go through every quest searching every 10 feet guessing at trap locations.
So why not have spot restricted the same way as search in its ddo implementation?
What sense would it make to sense danger from a trap one cannot possibly find?
It is unfortuante that the documentation isnt clear on this but it is also apparent that this is the way it functions at the moment, maybe always has, comments from long-time well-respected players aside.
Remeber the cha/diplo chest controversy?
It works I swear, have the sorc open it!
No it doesnt, its a waste of time!
Yes it does!
Even the Devs said it doesnt!
Bah, what do they know!
etc

one year later, standing at a chest:
It works I swear!
No it doesnt!
Yes it does!
Even the Devs said it doesnt! A Year ago!
Bah, what do they know!
etc

[parvo]

Still looking for an answer.

[parvo]

Even still looking for an answer

[Aspenor]

Even still looking for an answer

The answer is that it always worked the way it does, currently, and that it is working as intended.

No non-rogue can spot a trap over 20 DC.

Any non-rogue can spot an enemy with a hide skill score of greater than 20.

Any non-rogue can spot a secret door.

Your skill points aren't wasted, they just don't work the way you wish they did.

[arcticwolf666]

The answer is that it always worked the way it does, currently, and that it is working as intended.

No non-rogue can spot a trap over 20 DC.

Any non-rogue can spot an enemy with a hide skill score of greater than 20.

Any non-rogue can spot a secret door.

Your skill points aren't wasted, they just don't work the way you wish they did.

Indeed, rogues are the only class trained to find traps so they know what to look for. An average citizen (fighter, barbarian, etc.) are not trained so spot goes for hidden enemies, secret doors etc.

Now I do believe Rangers are trained in the 6th sense of danger, so in theory, spot should notify them of danger but as far as finding traps, maybe they cannot but they know danger is near.... IDK, at work atm so I cannot look it up. Anyone else clarify?

[parvo]

The answer is that it always worked the way it does, currently, and that it is working as intended.

No non-rogue can spot a trap over 20 DC.

Any non-rogue can spot an enemy with a hide skill score of greater than 20.

Any non-rogue can spot a secret door.

Your skill points aren't wasted, they just don't work the way you wish they did.

What makes you think this is the way it's allways been?

[manfredshw]

I am waiting for the answers, too.

[negative]

While I'd love to see a Dev answer on this, I still say it's never changed. The first time I really noticed this feature was when the Wishperdoom quest was released, and that was many Mod's ago.