Request for some balancing

[The_Phenx]

Simple request for a tough debate.

Can we re-balance the action point cost for fighters armor mastery and shield mastery feats.

Currently they take

2 +1 ac
4 +1 additional
6 +1 additional

So that is 12 Action points for 3 ac add to the dex bonus on your armor
And 12 additional AP to allow 3 more to the dex bonus on your shield.

24 total action points.

Compared to the paltry 4 action points that tempest takes.
for +2 ac and 10% alacrity.

Just doesn't seem to equal out.

1 pt
2 pt
3 pt

Would seem to be more in line with how it should be compared to the other enhancement lines. This would also help a TON now that you are releasing fighter tactical enhancements.

Can I get a yes a no or a we are working on it?

Thanks devs.

[frederjoe1]

Did you take into account the 3 different feats that a Tempest build must take in order to get that enhancement?

Not trying to get on you because I do not know fighter enhancement lines. What feats does a fighter need to take to get those enhancements?

Not sure there is really a balancing issue between these two lines.

My 2cp

[The_Phenx]

I did take that into consideration, Dodge mobility and SA... Dodge is +1 ac anyway, mobility is useless, SA is a good feat.. so its not like you arent benefitting from them.

No feat requirements for fighters armor mastery, but 12 action points for 3 ac is a bit steep... considering a 1 level monk splash can get a higher ac in pajamas than a fighter using +5 mithral full plate and carrying a +5 mithril tower shield with all the enhancement lines.

AC is very broke at the moment.

[Nikorr123]

Exactly - Tempest is 4 points PLUS 3 feats

All the armor enhancements(mentioned above) is a paltry 24 AP

[Gennerik]

I think the entire enhancement cost breakdown is too rigid as it is. It seems that someone decided that all costs have to increase as things go on, which seventy limits the flexibility of the system anyway. I think the Fighter AC lines are a little too expensive but there really isn't a middle ground route like there needs to be (like 2,2,2).

[Uproar]

Simple request for a tough debate.

Can we re-balance the action point cost for fighters armor mastery and shield mastery feats.

Currently they take

2 +1 ac
4 +1 additional
6 +1 additional

So that is 12 Action points for 3 ac add to the dex bonus on your armor
And 12 additional AP to allow 3 more to the dex bonus on your shield.

24 total action points.

Compared to the paltry 4 action points that tempest takes.
for +2 ac and 10% alacrity.

Just doesn't seem to equal out.

1 pt
2 pt
3 pt

Would seem to be more in line with how it should be compared to the other enhancement lines. This would also help a TON now that you are releasing fighter tactical enhancements.

Can I get a yes a no or a we are working on it?

Thanks devs.

IMO it basically it comes down to this, why even offer enhancement that I doubt very many people ever take?

Heck you could also offer a +10 AC enhancement for a cost of 50APs, but why as few would bother.

None of my many fighter builds actually get to take more then 3 picks of these two enhancement lines (I think on one character I took two levels of each). It's just too many points to spend on a relatively minor (although obviously nice to have) benefit. Too many other things are must haves / are required to waste 24 points on these.

[The_Phenx]

Exactly - Tempest is 4 points PLUS 3 feats

All the armor enhancements(mentioned above) is a paltry 24 AP

Paltry? I dont consider 33% of all your action points earned for 6 ac bonus paltry.

Especially when you could splash 1 level of monk.. get the 6 ac and 2 free feats.

Even 2 3 4 point cost would be better than what we have now.

[The_Phenx]

IMO it basically it comes down to this, why even offer enhancement that I doubt very many people ever take?

Heck you could also offer a +10 AC enhancement for a cost of 50APs, but why as few would bother.

None of my many fighter builds actually get to take more then 3 picks of these two enhancement lines (I think on one character I took two levels of each). It's just too many points to spend on a relatively minor (although obviously nice to have) benefit. Too many other things are must haves / are required to waste 24 points on these.

I took it... unfortunately they are the ONLY way to get a decent ac on a fighter. You have spend all of the points and get combat expertise and lose 5 th and have no power attack to even come close to approaching what monks and rangers are capable of.

Its terribly unblaanced at the moment.

[frederjoe1]

Paltry? I dont consider 33% of all your action points earned for 6 ac bonus paltry.

Especially when you could splash 1 level of monk.. get the 6 ac and 2 free feats.

Even 2 3 4 point cost would be better than what we have now.

Isn't this kinda the whole point of multiclassing...finding ways to creat different synergies between two seperate classes and hopefully coming up with something better than each by themselves?

Is there something somewhere that requires that a pureclass be better at something than a multiclass...

I am not trying to get your fur up, I am trying to wrap my head around the problem here.

[krud]

I would rather see them bring back the fighter dodge enhancement.

[Angelus_dead]

Compared to the paltry 4 action points that tempest takes.
for +2 ac and 10% alacrity.

The balance that should be done is to completely delete the AC bonus from Tempest. 10% attack rate is enough reason to want that enhancement, and that removal would also fix the bug of the bonus applying even when not TWF.

[The_Phenx]

I would rather see them bring back the fighter dodge enhancement.

Would be great as well...

[The_Phenx]

Isn't this kinda the whole point of multiclassing...finding ways to creat different synergies between two seperate classes and hopefully coming up with something better than each by themselves?

Is there something somewhere that requires that a pureclass be better at something than a multiclass...

I am not trying to get your fur up, I am trying to wrap my head around the problem here.

Yes and no... it is but I think the extent of the bonuses are way overpowered.

Think of it this way...
You spend 15 years learning to be a fighter.
Then for the fun of it you spend 1 year in a monastary in china.
All the sudden your 20x more powerful than you were?

Everyone knows the monk splash is overpowered.

I'm not asking for a nerf for that.

Just every fighter out there feels the AP cost for the paltry bonus is unfair.

[rimble]

I think they may be fine. Perhaps other classes are more intended to be the 'dextrous' AC types, and Fighters are intended to be the heavy armor real 'tank' types. So having access to 'dextrous' enhancements is an option, but a little costly since it's not their particular idiom. However, they'd then need something to help them excel in their intended area: Fighter Heavy Armor Optimization, +1/2/3 AC in Heavy Armor. Fighter Tower Shield Optimization, +1/2/3 AC with a Tower Shield. Things like that. I dunno, it's really hard to guess what the devs intend the classes to be sometimes.

[frederjoe1]

Yes and no... it is but I think the extent of the bonuses are way overpowered.

Think of it this way...
You spend 15 years learning to be a fighter.
Then for the fun of it you spend 1 year in a monastary in china.
All the sudden your 20x more powerful than you were?

Everyone knows the monk splash is overpowered.

I'm not asking for a nerf for that.

Just every fighter out there feels the AP cost for the paltry bonus is unfair.

I guess looking at it that way it kinda seems a bit overpowered.

[The_Phenx]

There used to be fighter dodge which was along those lines.. it was removed a long time ago because it made fighters ac to high at that point in the game.

Which is now pretty sorry.

Fully twinked out with all the best raid gear and combat expertise on a fighter is lucky to hit 65.. and it costs a LOT to get there.

[Borror0]

Can we re-balance the action point cost for fighters armor mastery and shield mastery feats.

Seems lik you and I are on the same wavelength today.

10% attack rate is enough reason to want that enhancement, and that removal would also fix the bug of the bonus applying even when not TWF.

Agreed.

[The_Phenx]

Seems lik you and I are on the same wavelength today.

Yes we are... although your obviously not really sleepy and put a lot more thought into it.

[Borror0]

Yes we are... although your obviously not really sleepy and put a lot more thought into it.

Nah, I'm **** tired. I wanted to elaborate more but gave up on the idea.

[Forceonature]

/agreed

I'd also be happy with 2,2,2 or 2,3,4.

I also think the Dodge feat should be +2 instead of +1. Seems like a feat should be worth more than 5 vials of pure water and some kobold beads...