Request for some balancing

[The_Phenx]

Seems Like A Feat Should Be Worth More Than 5 Vials Of Pure Water And Some Kobold Beads...

Rofl

[EKKM]

Paltry? I dont consider 33% of all your action points earned for 6 ac bonus paltry.

Especially when you could splash 1 level of monk.. get the 6 ac and 2 free feats.

Even 2 3 4 point cost would be better than what we have now.

Especially since it is really only +3 to AC. The tower sheild enhancments dont stack with the armour enhancements they just allow you to also override the max dex on towershields.

Ie Fighter is full plate, max dex is 1, he has a 18 dex allowing for a total of +4. The fighter also equips a towershield which has a max dex of +2.

Spends 12 AP to raise the max dex of his armour to +4. However, his dex bonus to AC is limited to 2 as he has not yet taken the towershield enhancement. To fully reralize the +4 to AC his dex would provide he needs to spend an additional 6AP on the TS enhancement.

A good fix would be to leave the AP cost the same but have the armour enhancements also apply to tower shields.

And yes, 1 level monk splashes are more broken than critical rage II

[The_Phenx]

Especially since it is really only +3 to AC. The tower sheild enhancments dont stack with the armour enhancements they just allow you to also override the max dex on towershields.

I said I was tired... lol... yes your 100% correct... 18 ap to get +3 to ac when using armor and a tower shield.

[Blazer]

I also think the Dodge feat should be +2 instead of +1. Seems like a feat should be worth more than 5 vials of pure water and some kobold beads...

Wish I had made this comparison earlier. Well said sir.

/clap

[nbhs275]

Paltry? I dont consider 33% of all your action points earned for 6 ac bonus paltry.

Especially when you could splash 1 level of monk.. get the 6 ac and 2 free feats.

Even 2 3 4 point cost would be better than what we have now.

especially when you also need the dex to fill them out.

Or, heres another one to wrap your brain around... Paladins give the entire group +5 AC for 10 action points. I think it would be fair for a fighter to be able to gain +3 personal AC for 12 action point.

It would also of been nice if they had given fighters ways to enhance the feat trees they actually selected. Example:

Improved TWF Defence:

pre reqs: TWF blocking, TWF Defence: Effect: Gain +1/2/3 AC and 2/4/6 DR(while blocking) while wielding two weapons. costs 2/4/6 AP

[Issip]

Exactly - Tempest is 4 points PLUS 3 feats

All the armor enhancements(mentioned above) is a paltry 24 AP

Tempest is the new batman. It was designed to give rangers a boost to DPS because they are dex based, but is being adapted for strength based TWF dwarves. Enjoy it, but don't expect it to last forever, and don't try to pretend it's in line with fighter's enhancement lines. Used for a dex ranger it is appropriate, used as it is today, well we all know it's headed for a nerfing (just like the batman build and the evasion in full plate), so don't light up the forums with your cries when they balance the game to try and make sword and board make sense - it has to be done and you know it.

[icculus]

The balance that should be done is to completely delete the AC bonus from Tempest. 10% attack rate is enough reason to want that enhancement, and that removal would also fix the bug of the bonus applying even when not TWF.

Improved TWF Defence:

pre reqs: TWF blocking, TWF Defence: Effect: Gain +1/2/3 AC and 2/4/6 DR(while blocking) while wielding two weapons. costs 2/4/6 AP

Wait for it, this is coming

Typical Turbine, stealth nerf something rather than actually fixing it

[icculus]

Tempest is the new batman. It was designed to give rangers a boost to DPS because they are dex based, but is being adapted for strength based TWF dwarves. Enjoy it, but don't expect it to last forever, and don't try to pretend it's in line with fighter's enhancement lines. Used for a dex ranger it is appropriate, used as it is today, well we all know it's headed for a nerfing (just like the batman build and the evasion in full plate), so don't light up the forums with your cries when they balance the game to try and make sword and board make sense - it has to be done and you know it.

Another uninformed person unable to seperate Batmen from Evasion. Batman has never been nerfed and is argueably far more powerful now with the changes to and increased need for Intimidate. It does probably require more gear than previously though.

The Evasion nerf was a major kick in the balls due to the lack of respec - I pitty the day Kate wakes up and decides it is time to wipe another 5% of the character base out

[Aesop]

Fighter Armor Optimization I
2AP
+1 AC while wearing armor (pjs don't count)
FIghter Armor Optimization II
4AP
+2 AC while wearing armor (pjs don't count)


Fighter Armor Mastery I
2AP
+1 Max Dex Bonus
Fighter Armor Mastery II
4AP
+2 Max Dex Bonus


Fighter Shield Mastery I
2AP
+1 Max Dex Bonus with a Tower Shield
+2 Blocking DR any Shield

Fighter Armor Mastery II
4AP
+2 Max Dex Bonus with a Tower Shield
+4 Blcking DR with any Shield

Feat: Armor Specialization
+2 DR/- with Armor (stacks with Material type DR ... Adamantine Full PLate with this Feat would be DR5/-)

Enhancement: Fighter Improved Armor Specialization I
1AP Prerequisite Feat: Armor Specialization
+1 DR/-
Fighter Armor Specialization II
2AP
+2 DR/-
Fighter Armor Specialization III
3AP
+3 DR/-

Ritual: Alchemical Armor Ritual I
+1 AC for Cloth and Light Armor
+2 AC for Medium and Heavy Armor

Ritual:Alchemical Shield Ritual I
+1 AC for Bucklers Light and Heavy Shield
+2 AC for Tower Shield



That's what I think anyway

Aesop

[icculus]

Ritual: Alchemical Armor Ritual I
+1 AC for Cloth and Light Armor
+2 AC for Medium and Heavy Armor

Ritual:Alchemical Shield Ritual I
+1 AC for Bucklers Light and Heavy Shield
+2 AC for Tower Shield

Very nice!

[redoubt]

Paltry? I dont consider 33% of all your action points earned for 6 ac bonus paltry.

Especially when you could splash 1 level of monk.. get the 6 ac and 2 free feats.

Even 2 3 4 point cost would be better than what we have now.

I think I am misunderstanding these two lines. I need some help.

fighter armor mastery increases the max dex bonus of your armor up to +3 correct?

fighter shield mastery does the same, correct?

If I am correct then you are spending 24 AP to get up to 3AC (not 6) due to increased dex bonus because the more restrictive of the armor or shield dex bonus will apply.

If you take only armor mastery and get your armor to allow +4 dex but your shield only allows +1 you only get +1. Thus you have to also take shield mastery to get your shield dex bonus up to +4.

Again, total benifit for 24 ap is only 3 AC. Am I getting this right? If I am it seems insanely expensive.

[Blazer]

Am I getting this right?

Yep, you are. Seems a bit silly, doesn't it?

[The_Phenx]

I think I am misunderstanding these two lines. I need some help.

fighter armor mastery increases the max dex bonus of your armor up to +3 correct?

fighter shield mastery does the same, correct?

If I am correct then you are spending 24 AP to get up to 3AC (not 6) due to increased dex bonus because the more restrictive of the armor or shield dex bonus will apply.

If you take only armor mastery and get your armor to allow +4 dex but your shield only allows +1 you only get +1. Thus you have to also take shield mastery to get your shield dex bonus up to +4.

Again, total benifit for 24 ap is only 3 AC. Am I getting this right? If I am it seems insanely expensive.

100% correct.. which is why id needs desperately to be fixed.

[The_Phenx]

Still after some developer love.

[Borror0]

Still after some developer love.

Bump mine while you're at it.

[vtecfiend99]

While I agree with you all that the AP cost for the fighter armor/shield feats are so far beyond what they should be that they are almost crippling, I dont agree that everything needs to be nerfed.

Maybe YOU didnt play or like rangers before this enhancment came out but i sure did and i remember BEGGING and BRIBING people to let me in groups that didnt know me.

TEMPEST does NOT need a nerf. and for that matter, who cares if a one/two level monk spalsh is powerful??? It is in in PNP also. Anyone ever have a pnp monk/ranger? VERY VERY GOOD. (sprinkle in a little vow of poverty and that stingy"low magic campaign" dm starts clawing his eyes out lol)

Just because YOUR favorite class is not the "BEST" right now dont start hating on others fun.

The monk splash did one thing really well. it allowed people who are casual players to get an AC that actually matters. I am in no way a casual player but i see the value in this. Monk levels dont need to change, fighters need some SERIOUS feat, enhancment and equipment love to get their ac to a point that it can matter in current content. Also there are other things that can make them better without the big ac numbers. Percentage to dodge an attack completely? that stacks with a blur effect because it is different... maybe?


The point is, a lack of content has led SO many people to roll new monk splashes and if they get ruined, those people will be very upset... NERFING IS BAD FOR THE GAME!

And using the example of the evasion nerf is not so good an example because we ALL KNEW that it was not working as intended. EVERYONE who rolled that type of build knew it was coming. Monk wisdom bonus to ac IS working as intended and IS in line with pnp.

You want love for your fighter? FINE I wouldnt mind having a GOOD fighter that I can feel happy with either... BUT IT DOESNT HAVE TO COME AT THE EXPENSE OF OTHER BUILDS.

[The_Phenx]

While I agree with you all that the AP cost for the fighter armor/shield feats are so far beyond what they should be that they are almost crippling, I dont agree that everything needs to be nerfed.

Maybe YOU didnt play or like rangers before this enhancment came out but i sure did and i remember BEGGING and BRIBING people to let me in groups that didnt know me.

TEMPEST does NOT need a nerf. and for that matter, who cares if a one/two level monk spalsh is powerful??? It is in in PNP also. Anyone ever have a pnp monk/ranger? VERY VERY GOOD. (sprinkle in a little vow of poverty and that stingy"low magic campaign" dm starts clawing his eyes out lol)

Just because YOUR favorite class is not the "BEST" right now dont start hating on others fun.

The monk splash did one thing really well. it allowed people who are casual players to get an AC that actually matters. I am in no way a casual player but i see the value in this. Monk levels dont need to change, fighters need some SERIOUS feat, enhancment and equipment love to get their ac to a point that it can matter in current content. Also there are other things that can make them better without the big ac numbers. Percentage to dodge an attack completely? that stacks with a blur effect because it is different... maybe?


The point is, a lack of content has led SO many people to roll new monk splashes and if they get ruined, those people will be very upset... NERFING IS BAD FOR THE GAME!

And using the example of the evasion nerf is not so good an example because we ALL KNEW that it was not working as intended. EVERYONE who rolled that type of build knew it was coming. Monk wisdom bonus to ac IS working as intended and IS in line with pnp.

You want love for your fighter? FINE I wouldnt mind having a GOOD fighter that I can feel happy with either... BUT IT DOESNT HAVE TO COME AT THE EXPENSE OF OTHER BUILDS.

Chuckle... no where have I ever said I want others to be nerfed, others have however and I dont agree... with no re-spec option its a horrible thing when the big ole bat comes out.

I just want the enhancement line brought in line with the rest of the game.

[vtecfiend99]

Chuckle... no where have I ever said I want others to be nerfed, others have however and I dont agree... with no re-spec option its a horrible thing when the big ole bat comes out.

I just want the enhancement line brought in line with the rest of the game.

I know you didnt haha, just the direction this thread was going.

What if fighter action boosts lasted longer depending on what one they are and what level you take?

Armor boost: 2 ac PER ENHANCMENT LEVEL and say a minute per enh level-- now that'd be good.
Damage Boost: 2 damage per enh level and 30 sec per enh level


also, many fighter enhancments as they are currently implemented should cost one a.p. per level. like 1,1,1,1 not 1,2,3,4 Intimidate comes to mind. now if it gave a bonus equal to number of ap spent THAT would be worth it

[The_Phenx]

I know you didnt haha, just the direction this thread was going.

What if fighter action boosts lasted longer depending on what one they are and what level you take?

Armor boost: 2 ac PER ENHANCMENT LEVEL and say a minute per enh level-- now that'd be good.
Damage Boost: 2 damage per enh level and 30 sec per enh level


also, many fighter enhancments as they are currently implemented should cost one a.p. per level. like 1,1,1,1 not 1,2,3,4 Intimidate comes to mind. now if it gave a bonus equal to number of ap spent THAT would be worth it

Agreed... they said they re-worked fighter enhancements for mod 8... So I am patiently waiting to see what they came up with... I was just hoping to spurn some attention for a fix for this problem while they were at it.

The most logical solutions to my mind are to reduce the cost or mak it so that fighters armor mastery has not only ac but inherant DR that comes with it.

After all if the guy is wearing full plate.. even if you get thru it.. your swing is not going to hit as hard.


We shall see

[Mhykke]

Tempest is the new batman. It was designed to give rangers a boost to DPS because they are dex based, but is being adapted for strength based TWF dwarves. Enjoy it, but don't expect it to last forever, and don't try to pretend it's in line with fighter's enhancement lines. Used for a dex ranger it is appropriate, used as it is today, well we all know it's headed for a nerfing (just like the batman build and the evasion in full plate), so don't light up the forums with your cries when they balance the game to try and make sword and board make sense - it has to be done and you know it.

Settle down. Tempest made rangers on the same playing field as barbarians. And now we're starting to see the ideas come out of boosting fighters and paladins.

I think the devs realize that nerfs aren't the way to go, and they should just boost the classes that need help a bit.