Quick suggestion on how to fix monk dps

[Turial]

How about a feat that increases their fist damage by one step on the dice? That would be 2d10 at the current cap.

[nbhs275]

How about a feat that increases their fist damage by one step on the dice? That would be 2d10 at the current cap.

Are you suggestion a feat that brings their base damage to about that of a greensteel greataxe, just that they dont crit for nearly as much? I think they should of made all the dice 1-2 sizes higher to start with, added an enhancment line to increase it even more, and made it x2 str.

[Silverjade]

I like the idea of boosting the damage dice and i would also like to have my unarmed count as two handed damage as i have no interest in having it as two weapon.

As a side note flurry does not stay at a neg2 to attack if this was pnp a monk at 16ith should be flurrying with a base of +12/+12/+12/+7/+2.

[Turial]

Are you suggestion a feat that brings their base damage to about that of a greensteel greataxe, just that they dont crit for nearly as much? I think they should of made all the dice 1-2 sizes higher to start with, added an enhancment line to increase it even more, and made it x2 str.

Well it would go 1d8 vs 1d6, then 1d10 vs 1d8, then 2d6 vs 1d10, then 2d8 vs 2d6, and finally 2d10 at the current cap vs 2d8. At level 20 it would be 3d6.

[redoubt]

Well it would go 1d8 vs 1d6, then 1d10 vs 1d8, then 2d6 vs 1d10, then 2d8 vs 2d6, and finally 2d10 at the current cap vs 2d8. At level 20 it would be 3d6.

So you could put on handwraps and get:

2d10 +5 (weapon) + 1d6 elemental + 2d6 holy + str bonus

TWF w/khopesh:

1d10 +5 + 1d6 elemental +2d6 holy + str bonus


Is it just me, or is that request making a monks fist way better than a khopesh???

[Silverjade]

So you could put on handwraps and get:

2d10 +5 (weapon) + 1d6 elemental + 2d6 holy + str bonus

TWF w/khopesh:

1d10 +5 + 1d6 elemental +2d6 holy + str bonus


Is it just me, or is that request making a monks fist way better than a khopesh???

Fist=19-20x2 with imp crit khopesh=17-20x3with imp crit.

[redoubt]

Fist=19-20x2 with imp crit khopesh=17-20x3with imp crit.

Still, double the base damage???

[Silverjade]

Monk gets 2d10 at 20ith anyway and only able to use one pair of handwraps right now and while i don't do all the math for the damage im willing to say that a twfing khopesh user will still out damage a monk because of the 17-20critx3.

[redoubt]

I understand the impact of the crit range.

What do you mean by you can only wear one set of handwraps? Can you not change them or are all the others broken?

Still thinking on the base damage thing. Seems pretty wild that you're doing more base damage with a fist than with a great axe...

[Silverjade]

One set at a time and more then a greataxe at 20ith right now monks are more like gs mauls.

[Angelus_dead]

How about a feat that increases their fist damage by one step on the dice? That would be 2d10 at the current cap.

In D&D that feat is known as Superior Unarmed Strike, and it gives you a +4 bonus to monk level for the purpose of computing damage.

[Turial]

In D&D that feat is known as Superior Unarmed Strike, and it gives you a +4 bonus to monk level for the purpose of computing damage.

I knew I had seen it somewhere. Mechanically that makes much more sense then simply an increase in the dice.

I assume it would properly look into epic monk levels to account for the damage a monk of level 17 and higher would deal, correct?
Do you know the requirements for it?

[binnsr]

maybe I did something wrong with the damage calculator, but it looks to me like unarmed is already outdamaging TWF..

[Angelus_dead]

maybe I did something wrong with the damage calculator, but it looks to me like unarmed is already outdamaging TWF..

I don't know if the mistake was your own, or is part of that webpage, but that output is very wrong.

It has the TWF character getting only 135% as many attacks as the unarmed, when really he gets more like 175%. The key problem seems to be that he only has ITWF, not GTWF.

An additional error is that you show a base damage of 1d6 on the kama, when it should be 1d8 (which implies many other damage dice were left out as well, because if you're not using GS you're not really DPSing).

[Angelus_dead]

Do you know the requirements for it?

Superior Unarmed Strike requires IUS and BAB 3.

[Silverjade]

Monks don't get gs handwraps so how is it not right to do it with out using gs kamas?
not my analysis but it would make sense for me to use normal kamas instad of gs kamas
when handwraps don't come in gs.

[Turial]

Monks don't get gs handwraps so how is it not right to do it with out using gs kamas?
not my analysis but it would make sense for me to use normal kamas instad of gs kamas
when handwraps don't come in gs.

Because a kama user monk will likely be using GS kamas if they want to kill something through damage, namely because of the higher base damage and the nice damage add ons. To do unarmed vs non-gs kamas would be to skew the data in an incorrect direction.

[riexau]

Because a kama user monk will likely be using GS kamas if they want to kill something through damage, namely because of the higher base damage and the nice damage add ons. To do unarmed vs non-gs kamas would be to skew the data in an incorrect direction.

Exactly. We're looking at the 'best currently available' scenarios, and 2x GS kama's is pretty much it right now.

The real comparison should be +5 holy burst handwraps vs 2x min2 GS kamas (acid/holy/acid) with 30 str, guile 4, hound goggles, imp crit and power attack for both.

[binnsr]

I know it's wrong -- that's why I worded it that way Since I'm at work, I had to use the information the creator of the page provided on attacks per minute (which is one of the key numbers on that page, i believe) with unarmed vs. TWF.

If saying that I need to use greensteel kamas to have any kind of DPS with kamas, then perhaps the only fix we really need is greensteel handwraps.. just something to think about. Besides, if you're counting on the 1,000,000d6 extra from having a greensteel kama, then you're forgetting that everyone else might have that same 1,000,000d6 extra on their greensteel also, making it a wash..

To make you happy, I redid the chart using +5 holy handwraps of maiming (have never seen pure good on handwraps ) and a pair of mineral II kama's. I think that shows the kind of numbers that you wanted to see..

[Silverjade]

It would not make sense to do it that way for me because i know i`m switching handwrap sets and i don't see why you would always be using the same kamas and not switching to other non gs sets for different mobs ect.