Please advise on spell selection.

[stockwizard5]

By taking a Bard level I miss out on my L8 spell and one L6 spell. That means dropping Cone of Cold or Chain Lightning. I think I'd need to experiment with them both after resetting enhancements to see which did better damage.

I would think for a VERY long time before taking a level of Bard. You will see throughout these forums my endless arguments for multi-classing almost every possible build but IMO this is the one and only singular exception. The loss of the extra spells (already tight) is brutal and giving up that point of hard earned (very expensive) Spell Penetration really is a big deal. If the ONLY reason is to get suffucient UMD - I assure you there are other ways including:

Ranks: 9
Feats: 3
Luck: 2
Charisma: 14
Greensteel: 6
Titan Gloves: 5
Greater Heroism: 4

From which you need 39 (not 40 or 44 since 39+1=40 = heal scroll success).

You also need to address gear including Exceptional CHA, Spell Pen, and Focus. Consider carefully that there are Greater Spell Pen Items/Weapons available (but not for all spells) and Greater Focus (but not for all schools). The combination of GSP/GF from gear (+1/+1 over SP/F) should be considered in this re-work (but both or either may not be possible).

[Merkinsal]

I found the origin of one trick pony per http://www.phrases.org.uk/

"The origin of the phrase goes back to the days of traveling circuses. Small ones with no major acts and no menagerie of exotic animals were derided as being dog and pony shows, since those were the major performers. To further denigrate the show, detractors would say that it had a one trick pony."

For ancients like me a one trick pony is an expression meaning something to be avoided. For awhile there your posts sounded to me like this was becoming your aim with the spell focus feats. My point is that a sorc can be balanced and still be extremely effective in insta-kill, crowd control, and nuking.

I don't see an instakill spell in your last line up and you need to have the best one, FoD. FoD is the single best spell for a sorc. You will know the truth of this after you have used it. If you don't like it I will send you the 100k to respec. I won't believe you say you don't like it so don't get your hopes up.

If you want Waves of Exhaustion then swap out Dancing Ball but hold off on that for awhile. At least wait until you are capped and/or have Twelve favor or something like that. Give yourself a chance to learn your character and see if you like Web and are comfortable with just that. Personally I cast both at the same time because they have different saves and that is very very effective. How you play and what quests you find yourself playing a lot of will make that choice obvious for you when the time is right. Until then you will find a lot of use for Dancing Ball.

I would highly recommend at least one of solid fog or acid fog. It is super crowd control. Mobs get caught up in it and are totally sitting targets. There is no save on the slowing effects.

Please listen to stockwizard5 and do not take a level of Bard.

[Fennario]

Since you said your goal is to be viable in the current end game raids, I thought I'd post my build for you as I feel he does a pretty good job in those quests.

Although I hate to say it, the current endgame is more suited to the wizard. Does that mean sorcerers are useless? Obviously not, but you have to adjust your sorcerer and your play style to be more... well wizardly. You have to focus more on CC, debuffs, and buffs. Gone are the days of blowing up a whole room of mobs with a max/empowered fireball.

Spells:

1) Jump, Nightshield, Ray of Enfeeblement, Expeditious Retreat

Expeditious is because I don't equip a striding item except in the Shroud part 3 or when battling Beholders. I know I have Haste, but for those times between Hastes, I don't feel like a slug.

2) Web, Resist Energy, Scorching Ray, Knock

I keep Knock around because many times I have been the only caster in the Shroud without a rogue, or one that has gone link dead, etc.

I keep every level 10 Blur wand that I find for those times I am the only one in the party that can cast it. But most bards will have Blur.

3) Haste, Protection from Energy, Rage, Displacement

4) Wall of Fire, Stoneskin, Enervation, PK

I have about 100 DD scrolls left. I only burn one when necessary. Again, the Bard will usually have this spell if you are the only caster in the group.

I keep PK around because I still enjoy running other quests besides the big raids. I get alot of enjoyment from the FOD/PK one-two punch. Fireshield, Solid Fog if you don't have Acid Fog, and even Curse would be good options for this level as well.

5) Cone of Cold, Ball Lightning, Hold Monster, Teleport

I keep Teleport because I am lazy. I like to Teleport quickly to the various brokers to make more money, to the bank, the Portable Hole, etc. I know I could easily scroll this spell, but spending money to make more money seems counter productive, and I do cast this spell alot. Besides, none of the other spells seem like must haves.

6) Acid Fog, Disintegrate, GH

I do miss Flesh to Stone. I have considered picking it back up, but I don't want to drop Disintegrate since I don't have any force spells. And I would rather not have to scroll GH as I find myself casting it a ton.

7) FOD, Waves of Exhaustion

Exhaustion is a great debuff. It makes a nice one-two punch when stacked with Ray of Enfeeblement. It also really helps all those mobs stick in your Heightened Webs longer. I wish I could fit Symbol of Stunning in here, because that spell is very handy as well. Banishment does rock for looting the Vale and the Vale quests, but we sorcerers just don't have enough spell slots.

8) Polar Ray

Even though the only way you can boost the power of this spell is with raid loot, it still does decent damage as it has no save like Scorching Ray. I have considered Sunburst, but have not pulled the trigger yet. I can't wait for the level cap if for no other reason than to have more high level spell slots.

Feats (Human):

Maximize
Empower
Heighten
Extend
Spell Pen
Greater Spell Pen
Force of Personality

Enhancements:

[human] - Adaptability Charisma I (2)
[human] - Improved Recovery I (2)
[human] - Versatility I (1)
[sorcerer] - Charisma I (2)
[sorcerer] - Charisma II (4)
[sorcerer] - Elemental Manipulation I (1)
[sorcerer] - Elemental Manipulation II (2)
[sorcerer] - Elemental Manipulation III (3)
[sorcerer] - Elemental Manipulation IV (4)
[sorcerer] - Energy Manipulation I (1)
[sorcerer] - Energy Manipulation II (2)
[sorcerer] - Energy Manipulation III (3)
[sorcerer] - Energy Manipulation IV (4)
[sorcerer] - Energy of the Dragonblooded I (1)
[sorcerer] - Energy of the Dragonblooded II (2)
[sorcerer] - Energy of the Dragonblooded III (3)
[sorcerer] - Energy of the Dragonblooded IV (4)
[sorcerer] - Improved Spell Penetration I (2)
[sorcerer] - Improved Spell Penetration II (4)
[sorcerer] - Lineage of Deadly Elements I (1)
[sorcerer] - Lineage of Deadly Elements II (2)
[sorcerer] - Lineage of Deadly Elements III (3)
[sorcerer] - Lineage of Deadly Energy I (1)
[sorcerer] - Lineage of Elements I (1)
[sorcerer] - Lineage of Elements II (2)
[sorcerer] - Lineage of Elements III (3)
[sorcerer] - Lineage of Energy I (1)
[sorcerer] - Wand Mastery I (1)
[sorcerer] - Wand Mastery II (2)

So I have top of the line fire and cold spells, and fairly potent electricity and acid spells. I have 30% boosted Heal scrolls on myself, and 20% boosted on others. While I would like to have Spell Pen III, 6 aps is pretty costly. I do not have Charisma III as I still haven't pulled a +3 tome to get me to a 38 charisma.

Anyways, thats my take on the class and it works for my play style. Good luck with your sorcerer.

[llevenbaxx]

Do many if not all the sorc16s make the shroud stat items(+6exceptional+3)?, if so do you typically always carry them(to keep max sp) or just for times when casting DC dependant spells. If always carried do you just switch out your spell pentration item for applicable lore items as needed?(this is assuming you alrdy have the reaver cloak).

Just leveled my WF sorc to 14 and with the -1 to DC do plan on getting one of these items asap.

[Fennario]

Do many if not all the sorc16s make the shroud stat items(+6exceptional+3)?, if so do you typically always carry them(to keep max sp) or just for times when casting DC dependant spells. If always carried do you just switch out your spell pentration item for applicable lore items as needed?(this is assuming you alrdy have the reaver cloak).

Just leveled my WF sorc to 14 and with the -1 to DC do plan on getting one of these items asap.

The blue dragon scale robe takes care of both Spell Pen and Lore items. The Reaver Napkin takes care of the Spell Focus. I keep a Superior Potency 6 weapon in my main hand, and a +9 charisma Shroud weapon in my off hand.

The only time I switch is to a puncturing pick for held mobs or when I use a scroll/wand. The Shroud weapon never leaves my off hand.

[rimble]

The blue dragon scale robe takes care of both Spell Pen and Lore items. The Reaver Napkin takes care of the Spell Focus. I keep a Superior Potency 6 weapon in my main hand, and a +9 charisma Shroud weapon in my off hand.

That would be my plan if I had the grapes to get those blue scales, make a greensteel spell point item, and then make a greensteel charisma item. I had my eyes on it but just couldn't buckle down and do it. Maybe some day.

[Fennario]

That would be my plan if I had the grapes to get those blue scales, make a greensteel spell point item, and then make a greensteel charisma item. I had my eyes on it but just couldn't buckle down and do it. Maybe some day.

Yeah, I hear ya. A good alternative to the blue scale robe is the named Robe of the Magi that drops in the Abbot pre-raid somewhere. It has Spell Pen 7 on it so that at least frees that item up. I've seen them on the AH a few times reasonably priced, but have also seen them obscenely priced... just gotta keep an eye out.

One good thing about the greensteel items is that you don't really need to double shard the final tier. 12 larges an item is alot more manageable than 24.

[Leyoni]

Thanks guys. I appreciate information on how to hit 39 UMD.

Here's the thing. You had to successfully run Vale quests and the Shroud without the greensteel item and I'm feat starved already so Skill Focus: UMD isn't even on my radar. It has to be alright to run the Shroud with a 33 UMD and 70% success rate on Heal scrolls.

I used "one-trick pony" on purpose as it seems silly to me to try to spread across so many skill sets with a Sorcerer. My choice is to go with my primary build plan. I'll take some form of insta-whatever spell in order to have an emergency plan when blasting everything doesn't work.

As noted, my current plan is to splash Bard next level. But, I just hit 13 yesterday and I need some time to get all the spells sorted out. That means lots of opportunity to farm for Titan gloves, blue scales and so on. Not sure how to get the luck bonus that stockwizard5 mentions. But, I'll have time to farm for that as well.

Obviously I won't need the Bard splash if I get the items I'll need. Then it becomes a matter of where they go and what can fit into the remaining slots. Gloves are obviously hands, luck is a trinket maybe, robes are armor.

Bard splash frees up a lot of gear issues but means no L8 spell and 1 fewer L6 spells. As observed, I haven't figured out what to do with the other L7 spell and I think I have space for another L5 spell as well. Fennario makes a good point but I give stuff off to a hagglebot Bard to sell so don't need Teleport. Can't really find another L5 spell that I really feel I just have to take. Not even all that sure about Cloud Kill. Maybe Waves of Fatigue....

Also not entirely sure about Enervation at L4. Is Solid Fog a better choice? Knock one thing down some levels (affecting saving throws, HP, etc.) or slow down lots of things? Was thinking Enervation/Flesh to Stone or Enervation/Finger of Death or (initially) Enervation/Phantasmal Killer. Tossed PK, but the others should work. Maybe not needed if I'm taking up Spell Penetration and GSP. The build templet had Enervation/PK but no SP/GSP.

Maybe the other L7 spell is FoD. Merkinsal guarantees it so that should be all I need to know!

Still want to make sure everyone knows how much I appreciate the help. Thx.

[Leyoni]

I do not have Charisma III as I still haven't pulled a +3 tome to get me to a 38 charisma.

Leyoni is Drow. Starting CHA 20. I'll get +3 CHA from enhancements. I'll get another +4 CHA from stat increases. I can get a +6 CHA item. I can get a +3 tome. My math is 20+3+4+6+3=36.

How does a Human whose starting CHA can only be 18 get to 38? I know you can get a +1 stat enhancement (where Drow are stuck with DEX). That still leaves you at 35 tops. What is giving you the extra +3 CHA?

If it is a greensteel item then I need to go back to something I've noted before -- you have to be doing alright without it in order to run the Shroud enough times to gather the items to craft one (or you have to have an insane amount of plat and be able to just shop til you drop).

Otherwise, how do you even think you're getting to CHA 38? What am I missing?

[Fennario]

Otherwise, how do you even think you're getting to CHA 38? What am I missing?

Human

18 creation
4 levels
4 enhancements
6 item
3 shroud weapon
3 tome
---------
38

As I said I haven't pulled a +3 tome yet, so I am stuck at 36 until then. (used a +2 favor tome)

For drow, a 38 charisma does not require the +3 tome

20 creation
4 levels
3 enhancements
6 item
3 shroud weapon
2 tome (favor)
---------
38

I believe you are not calculating the +3 exceptional charisma bonus that you can craft on a Shroud weapon. It stacks with everything.

[rimble]

If it is a greensteel item then I need to go back to something I've noted before -- you have to be doing alright without it in order to run the Shroud enough times to gather the items to craft one (or you have to have an insane amount of plat and be able to just shop til you drop).

You'll do just fine in the Shroud without your +3 exceptional item. No one is expecting you to have that on Normal, maybe Hard or Elite. I'm fine with a 34 (Drow, 20 + 4 Levels + 6 Item + 1 Tome + 3 Enhancements). Of course another +4 Cha would help, but it's fine. I've only been able to stomache few runs though, I don't really enjoy it.

[Fennario]

If it is a greensteel item then I need to go back to something I've noted before -- you have to be doing alright without it in order to run the Shroud enough times to gather the items to craft one (or you have to have an insane amount of plat and be able to just shop til you drop).

Or you have other characters that go into the Shroud regularly. I personally have a 4 character rotation, but others have more.

No the greensteel items are not NEEDED. But they sure do help to maximize your characters potential. Besides, what else are you gonna do at level cap?

[Leyoni]

OK! All is making sense now. Yes, I know about the crafted items from Shroud but have been working all along with the notion that I won't have that until after Shroud and crafting is finished.

That all means that I have to get by with lower numbers. Good to hear 34-36 will work with no problem.

I have one character able to run Reaver & Shroud. I get in Reaver just about as quickly as I can with the timer.

Leyoni will be my second character to get into this part of the game and my first caster (the other character is a barbarian/fighter/ranger multiclass). I only ran Shroud once on the other character. I'm not really into all the grind for the crafting stuff. I could treat it like a loot run and just horde whatever I collect for Leyoni.

I run two accounts and Leyoni is on one, the other character on the other. My main focus with Leyoni is getting to 1750 favor to unlock 32 point builds. I run primarily ranger multiclass builds on the one account as I do like the melee life. I will go to the trouble on my next melee build to get a crafted item as I anticipate getting it closer to "right" this time around.

Leyoni is a bit different. I don't think I could have made a better build stats-wise. So the question becomes how to make him most effective through adjustments -- all easily done through respecs and spell swaps. And, it is all electrons so no real money lost even though I'll spend a ton of plat.

What I'm looking at is taking all that I learn from Leyoni and turning that into two or three more arcane characters.

Already I've started Epluribus Unum as a crowd control, buffing, charm focused Sorcerer. Having my own army at low levels is a lot of fun. Not sure that it will work at higher levels. I may go CC, buff, insta-kill with him instead but want to see how far I can push things with the charm line.

I also started Wizard. Theogar will be a bit more versatile given the ability to swap spells for the quest as needed. Bonus Wizard feats will let me use normal feats for things I wish I could have on Leyoni but can't. Probably take a couple of Spell Focus lines and turn him into a insta-kill build with a slightly bigger selection of spells.

I have a rogue multiclass in the works. Yucheng is a rebuild of an earlier character. Not a lot of love for rogues out there so am working on making him more AC effective. Figure if my AC is as good as or better than the melees in the group and I'm handing out significant DPS through backstabbing that it will overcome the lack of love.

I guess I'm trying to say that I haven't gotten to the point of having multiple capped characters. Not much point in it if they are too badly designed. I have spent a lot of time working out what I like in a character. I'm finally at the point where I pretty much know what I want from three or four character classes and am fairly sure that they won't be broken at the top levels.

I'm sort of looking at having 3 or 4 of them level capped by the time the next major mod comes out. Right now I have 1 just shy of level cap and Leyoni poised to join him. At least one of the various ranger builds will be there and maybe another of the arcanes or my rogue.

I really do appreciate all the insight I've gained through this thread. Thanks one last time to all of you for the help.

[Desteria]

Leyoni is nearing L13 and I am getting ready to adjust my spells for end-game content. He is my first caster to get this far so I have some questions on spell selection.

I initially followed a build guide and set Leyoni up to be a pure offensive caster. I have taken very few buff spells and no crowd control at all. My feats have gone into Force of Personality, Maximize, Empower, Extend and Heighten. I am considering exchanging Heighten for Enlarge and then picking up Heighten again later. I hardly ever use Heighten so I don't think I'll miss it -- could be wrong.

My planned spell list is:

L1: Jump, Mage Armor, Magic Missile, Shield
L2: Blur, False Life, Resist Energy, Scorching Ray
L3: Displacement, Haste, Heroism, Magic Circle Against Evil
L4: Enervation, Phantasmal Killer, Stoneskin, Wall of Fire
L5: Ball Lightning, Cone of Cold, Cloudkill
L6: Chain Lightning, Flesh to Stone, True Seeing
L7: Delayed Blast Fireball, Finger of Death
L8: Polar Ray

I am not really built for the PK/FoD line and haven't taken feats or enhancements to support it. I have focused on the cold/fire and acid/electrical damage enhancements. I can put enhancements into spell penetration.

Advice please.

Thx

I built my Sorc for all pourpose I nuke hard i cna inta kill just fine but no spell focus feats for it etc. my current spell list is as follows: This is a list for a sorc that really just runs end game raids on elite all the time so my spells are specalized for SR/shroud/VoD/hound morethen any thing else
Level1:
Night shield - MM imunity and resists saves a item slot, swap an item in for beholders.
Jump - just a must have in DDO
Ray of Enffeble - a Great debuf for certen bosses
Something else - CAnt rember at work atm.
LEvel2:
Scorchign Ray - still oen fo the best nukes out there
REsist Energy - just amust have buff
Rage - it;s +16 hp for me most melle liek it to and it;s AE.
Knock - for shroud Doors and I use displacmetn insted of blur
Levle3:
Displacemnt - 50% miss chance = the best defense you cna get great for melles against the bosses that dotn se ethorugh it.
Prot Energy - hey it will save you but being able to self recast it.
Haste - DuH! best spell or any htign in game.
Something else -
LEvel4:
WoFire - still teh most eficent damage spell out there
PK - cause some times insta kill is the best option and cyclign fod and pk rocks
Enervation - because it;s fun this one i could swap if i wanted somethign more.
Fire Shield - lots of places this is a HUGE life saver fire shild + prot fire = you basicaly take ZERO damage insted of 280 fro one of harries DFB's to the face.
WANDS of stone skin i use for when i want it.
LEvel5: the level of suck.
Telaport - becasue i'm lazy
Cone of Cold - godo AE cold spell
Symbol of Pain - because it;s a nice debuff that very little is imue to.
BReak enchantment - Fro enimy blade barriers liek the gnolls in shroud OR noob casters that put up Disco balsl in part 1 of shroud.
level6: the level of ARRRGGGG
Flesh to stone - though used less then before still has certen tiems it;s the only thing that will realyl work, GREAT for infently respawnign mob quests liek desert caravan it;s funa dn relaxign to just sit in a rock guarden and wait for the end
Acid Fog - FOG it;s your friend key usages in shroud/vod/hound can be replaced with levle 4 solid fog
Distigrate - it's the nothing else will hurt this NUKE
SCOLLS of G-hero for self willpick this up next level up.
LEvel 7:
FoD - insta kill master spell
Disco ball - because i like it because in soem stuf fit;s just the right spell for the job i dotn use this on raids onther then SR but it;s greta ina lot of quests, especaly if the melles or cleric are weaker.
level8:
Polar Ray - why because most spell thsi levle suck AND for nukign haryr on hard or elite when he has a great save and evation really it the only thing you can use rock the snot out of fire elles to with the VoD set it does coem very close to scorchign ray in terms of single target DPS scorchign still wins out because of 3 chances to crit up's the average damage.
I dont use greater shout because althoughit is great CC spell IT is also effected by max and emp makign it VERY expensive to use that was and it sucks for a damage spell.


take that for what you will thast just my usage atm.

[Desteria]

How do you spec for DC? Doesn't it mean taking the Spell Focus feat? You'd need to take at least 2 or 3 to really matter -- Necromancy and Illusion at the very least. And, you end up with a +2 to your DC over what you can get without them.

I understand that it increases the chance that the enemy will fail their save -- but, is it really that necessary? Can't I sneak through with Enervation to drop them a few levels and then land my spell?

I can see grabbing up the Spell Penetration feats and enhancements. Those make better sense to me as DC won't matter if I can't get past spell resistance. That much I understand.

But, I can hit CHA 36 by level cap. With Heighten I'll be hitting 10+13+8=31. I can get focus items to push it to 32. Do I really need it to be 34? If so, what do I give up in feats in exchange?

At the moment my feats are suboptimal as I've found out. After fixing in the next few days they will be: Extend Spell, Force of Personality, Greater Spell Penetration, Heighten Spell, Maximize Spell, Spell Penetration. What do I drop for a Spell Focus feat?

I can hear you saying Force of Personality but I sort of enjoy not failing Will saves. The others seem to be just about required.

Disintegrate sounds more useful than I'd considered before. Thanks for the information there.

Yuo dot need a spell focus feat getitn gthe spell pens and the spell pen enhacments while maxign cha will work great, get the stormreavers napkin for +1 to all DC's

I have no spell focus feats and I can FoD orthons in shroud woith out to much problem.

[Desteria]

I could see taking the 6 feats as: Maximize, Heighten, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Spell Focus: Transmutation, Greater Spell Focus: Transmutation.
I still hate giving up Force of Personality.

YOu dotn need the Spele focus really they are juts to limited in DDO for the numebr of spelsl you cast a and want for certen quests especaly at end game raids, for random quests dule focus necro FoD build make soem sense.

MY feats at end game are: I'm human.
Highten - MUST HAVE fro Web endgame imo WEB stops beded devils telaporting that is the single most anoying and LAGGG inducing ability ever.
Extend - fro haste displacment rage firesheild mostly, the 1 min buffs are nice but not as needed.
MAXIMIZE - for nuking
EMPOWER - for nuking
I never realyl turn any of the above off except soem tiems extend when buffing for stuff liek hound, OR if i know i will be castiogn a LOT of acid fogs and NOT nuking i will turn max and emp off
Spell PEN
GTR SPell Pen
Skill focus (UMD) goog no fail heal scrolls, purty sure this will get swaped out at level 20 either it OR the titan gloves will go to kepe me no fail and either fre eup a item slot or a feat.

[Desteria]

Thanks guys. I appreciate information on how to hit 39 UMD.

Here's the thing. You had to successfully run Vale quests and the Shroud without the greensteel item and I'm feat starved already so Skill Focus: UMD isn't even on my radar. It has to be alright to run the Shroud with a 33 UMD and 70% success rate on Heal scrolls.

As noted, my current plan is to splash Bard next level. But, I just hit 13 yesterday and I need some time to get all the spells sorted out. That means lots of opportunity to farm for Titan gloves, blue scales and so on. Not sure how to get the luck bonus that stockwizard5 mentions. But, I'll have time to farm for that as well.

Still want to make sure everyone knows how much I appreciate the help. Thx.

Heal scrolsl at 70% succes rate are still CHEAPER adn FASTER then pots, FASTER fro sure then wands, not suyre on cost ratio vr's wands.

NOTE to make heall scrolsl even better take soem levels of scroll mastery it worls on scrolls YOU as a sorc can heal scroll just as well as any cleric can evetualy

DON'T spalce a bard unless you REALLLLLY want it yes it woudl let you crank your UMD up BTU realyl a sroc can get enough UMD with out it if that is the only reason it;s just not worth it.

The LUCK bonus +2 if that what it was is form the HEAD OF GOOD LUCK from stormreaver it goes in your trinket slot it is faily styandard equipment on most sorcs i find especaly thoues with UMD it also give +2 all saves. Untill you cna get it GO get a budyd and run delaira's for the garentyed drop Dice with +1 luck and 5% xp+ in the smae slot use that till you cap then equip the head if you have it or kepe farmign SR for it

It;s actuyl very posible to hit +40 UMD with out skill focus for a sorc atm, and you only need +39 to be no fail.

[transtemporal]

Leyoni, theres a special place in hell for people who splash a perfectly good sorc with a level of bard!

[stockwizard5]

Final word of advice - go play the game

There is quite of bit of useful stuff in this thread (and some not so useful) - you need to distinguish for yourself which is which.

Be particularly careful of statements like this (Desteria makes some solid points but this is a nice example):

I have no spell focus feats and I can FoD orthons in shroud woith out to much problem.

The question is "without to much problem" compared to what? A Sorc with 26 Spell Pen (max possible AFAIK) and 40 CHA (near max possible) with heighten and both focus feats cannot FoD Orthons without to much problem (by my standards) in Shroud part 2.

[Desteria]

Final word of advice - go play the game

There is quite of bit of useful stuff in this thread (and some not so useful) - you need to distinguish for yourself which is which.

Be particularly careful of statements like this (Desteria makes some solid points but this is a nice example):



The question is "without to much problem" compared to what? A Sorc with 26 Spell Pen (max possible AFAIK) and 40 CHA (near max possible) with heighten and both focus feats cannot FoD Orthons without to much problem (by my standards) in Shroud part 2.

With out to much problem = I can FoD all of them that i need to with out runnign in to any SP issues over the duration of the quest, it noramly lands with in 2 casts only ocation needing a 3rd for the orthons in shroud thats purty good.

FOrthe record I dotn have spell focus feats i do have 38 cha but a 36 what he said he was expecting to hit is onyl 5% worse, 40 cha is nto realyl a relistic cha since it requiers a none good drow with the abbot trinket(basicaly unobtainable for all but a VERY few people, note I probably coudl if i really wanted to work at it but the whole abbot mess just ****es me off so i dont), most people consider 38 cha the realistic max.
I do also have max spell pen, 16+3ehc+2 item+4 feats or +25 for a level 7 spell, IFthere exists a gtr spell pen 7 item i;ve never seen/heard of it, his build had the feats planned, could take the AP's and items are items...
Ultimatly I'm 15% less successfull then your listed MAX DC guy btui 10% less success full then the realistic max cha guy dubbel focus guy adn it cost me 2 less feats, on the avearge that means it takles me .22 ish more FoDs to kill each orthon OR after i;ve killed 5 I;ve used 1 or 2 more FoD thats NOT gona hurt any one in the end, and imo is worht not spendign 2 feats on any thign BUT a TOTALY focus instakileld build, and where as those buidl are fun in some quests in mainy other they find them selves sititng with there thumbs up there bums out of SP's for half the time


SO worse case senerio he would be about 5% worse of them I am and frankly 5% les ssuccess on FoD the orthons is really nothing I'd worrie about so I fully belive he will beable to use FoD just fine with out the feats and that was my resoning for with out much problem.

I define no problems as aproximutly a 95% success rate wich is when i get on the trogs and most stuff i care oput FoDing, heck even Elite Gale cleric death balls of light are 50/50 on SR they have 36 ifrc then at least 60ish% success after that, with the speed and SP's a sorc has thats still with out much problems since with there spam healing they can be a PITA to kill other ways, note I HATE when they cast death ward btu i wach for it and make the melle W/P or W/E that one down

IT all coems down to are you successfull enough to not ruyn out fo SP's when you want to do it with the 2 spell pen feats, 36 cha, and a few items that buy the tiem he has 36 cha he should have NP getting, and a few Ehnc points on spell pen say at least 2 levels he should beabel to FoD as needed.