Varra the Paladin

[Varr]

Could use a bit of help with this build please. I like to think I know about rogues and casters...........but my melee knowledge is sorely lacking. Any help would be appreciated. Musts.........female (name is locked in), human (dwarves are to stinky), would like to intimidate and hold said agro without falling down much.

Progress so far (reroll is acceptable if this build is broken)

Human 3/1 Pali/figher........looking for either 19/1 or 18/2 at end game.

Starting stats:

Str: 16 (all level ups)
Dex: 10
Con: 15 (eaten a +1 tome to get to 16)
Int: 14
Wis: 8
Cha: 14


Feats: Skill focus intimidate, Combat Expertise, Dragon mark of the Sentinal (to be exchanged around level 12 or so when the shield of faith is repeditive and the +2 intimidate will not be missed but not sure to what feat?), Toughness..........shield mastery at 6?.....improved crit slash at 9.........power attack at 12?..........improved shield mastery at 15?...........I'm not in love with the power attack feat and expext to be running almost exclusivly in ce, but seems to be a common agreement that this is a needed and usefull toggle.

Thoughts on stats. Dex is low, but will be a 16/18 which maxes out my characters ac with mith fp and mith tower shield which I'm planning on. Currently using long swords, but guessing I will be switching to khopesh/scimitars or rapiers at some point. Spell casting will fix itself once a +6 wis item is equipt to get to a 14/16. Int is pretty high, taking maxed intimidate, umd, spot, and balance. Spot is a luxury pick to say the least.

Also, as a side benifit..........by being human I have some flexablity in enhancment useage.....as a dwarf, more dex and the armor mastery are a must, as is the hp boost, and likely the ax line........all very good enhancments (to good to pass up infact.) As a human, I can see taking the human adaptivity line..........but still having extra enhancments to do some things most dwarven paladins can not currently afford.

Any suggestions?

[Aerendil]

Have a look at Dworkin's Holy Avenger Mod 6 post (not bothering linking, as both are on page 1). There's a very nice Human tank build in there, although no intimidate listed. Although you can easily pick that up instead of maxing one of the other skills.

Also, as I pointed in that thread, you can take the Sentinel dragonmarks and Human Deneith enhancements to boost intimidate instead of needing skill focus : intimidate.

Fighter 3 as a splash is very nice for Tower Shield Mastery I, but then again, 2 Rogue or Monk levels are also very nice for Evasion.

Weapons have been debated alot between Khopesh (best dps) and everything else such as Longsword or Bastard sword (almost as good, and much more plentiful / cheaper at the auction house). Personal preference here, really.

Other than that, I'm sure the veterans will have much better opinions than I.
I just wanted to link you that other page

[Varr]

That is a good post for info, but isnt the exact path im giong due to such a heavy splaching of classes. I actually am lookign to be about as pure a pali as possible. If not for the free tower shield feat and more importantly to me the class granted intimidate to allow me full ranks in this, I would be moving toward 20 pure. Now since I splashed one, splashing a second is in play for the fighter str 1 and a second free feat, but would likley still skip on that. 19/1 is most likely the path unless Im missing something key.

As to the weapons, a Khopesh dps and scimmitar specialty weapon set is a probable switch........but I have not experianced the paladin improved crit range/mod enhancments yet to see how they play into it.

[Vizzini]

I know there are some pally enhancments that increase "Hate" which will make it easier to intimidate and keep the agro after fireballs /firewalls.

Other than that It looks like you've got some good things planned out there. Where is this character located? If it's on Khyber I have some low lvl rr human intimdate items to help you out.

Otherwise I'll be on the lookout during my runs on Thelanis.

P.S. I also thought I read something about them possibly making Intimidate a pally skill, that could have just been a request thread though.

[Varr]

New lowbie for me on Thelanis my friend. I havent read anything about it being a new skill.......guessing more of a player want than actually on the blocks for game insertion. Yep, looking forward to playing with this one as she levels.

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

That is a good post for info, but isnt the exact path im giong due to such a heavy splaching of classes. I actually am lookign to be about as pure a pali as possible. If not for the free tower shield feat and more importantly to me the class granted intimidate to allow me full ranks in this, I would be moving toward 20 pure. Now since I splashed one, splashing a second is in play for the fighter str 1 and a second free feat, but would likley still skip on that. 19/1 is most likely the path unless Im missing something key.

As to the weapons, a Khopesh dps and scimmitar specialty weapon set is a probable switch........but I have not experianced the paladin improved crit range/mod enhancments yet to see how they play into it.

Then I would recommend looking at my Paladin Build Guide (link in my sig).
I have a Pure Paladin build guide. Simply swap in a single Fighter level for Intimidate.

More importantly, I think you need to really consider what the benefit of staying mostly pure Paladin will get you. I know it has been debated repeatedly on the forums, but 19/1 or 18/2 is not going to give you more DPS/Survivability/Utility/etc than 11/x/x or even 13/x/x.

I have played quite a number of characters (I tend to reroll a *LOT*), and I can tell you that a Paladin's Saves + Evasion is an AMAZING combination, as is a decent Fighter/Paladin split (more like 10/6 or 7/7 or something along those lines)... but shooting for 19/1 seems a bit weak, in the end game. Even with the Prestige Enhancements coming, and we would assume L6/12/15or18 as the splits for the levels of Paladin required, I seriously doubt the L18 benefits would outwiegh the advantages of Evasion from Rogue 2 (as well as the ability to max Intimidate and UMD, with sufficient Intelligence) or 3-7 Levels of Fighter (for Feats and Fighter Enhancements).

Paladin has a number of "break points" depending on what you want from the class. Currently the highest "break point" is Pal 15 for BoG/RoG 4, but it really isn't getting that worth it. Paladin 11 (for BoG/RoG3) or Paladin 13 (for LoH #4) is really the highest worthwhile level for Paladin... but Fighter or Rogue or Monk offer MASSIVE benefits.

Remember, this is based on DnD 3.5, not the old 2.0 rules. Back in 1.0 & 2.0, Multiclassing was a BIG no-no... not true anymore. Look at each Class as "what can I get out of an additional level in this class, or what can I get out of taking another class" instead of the old-school mentality of "Pure Class! If I absolutely have to, maybe 1-2 level splash". I have convinced a good number of people of the power of a well-built (and well played) Multi-Classed Paladin with my Holy Avenger, and I have designed many other MC Paladin-based builds (as well as Ranger, Fighter, and other class-based builds).

Let's be 100% honest here, there are very few classes in DDO that really MUST be pure class (or SHOULD be, at least through L18 or L19):

• Wizards
• Sorcerers
• Bards
• Clerics

That's about it. Barbarian benefits stop after Critical Rage 2, Fighters run out of Feats to take after L12 or L14, Rangers have no real benefits past Ranger 2/6/11/15, Pallys after 2/3/4/7/11/13/15 (depending on what you want from the class). Rogues are a different story, but Pure 16 Rogue is usually too squishy in this game... Really, it is the spellcasters who should stay pure, unless there is a really good reason not to... all other classes, look at them from teh point of view of "I will continue taking levels in this class as long as I am getting a direct benefit from continuing, as soon as there are no good rewards out of this class, I will multi-class into another)

[Borror0]

I also thought I read something about them possibly making Intimidate a pally skill, that could have just been a request thread though.

That was a request.

[Varr]

Excellent read dworkin, appreciate the link. Ive had a two weapon Khopesh swinging 11/3 ranger/pali that had a delving suit and was an evasion character. When building this character.........I could have decided to run no tower shield, light armor, two weapon fight, and have a high dex wich works very well with a rogue mix. Instead Im focusing I think on a set of mith fp, vision fp as a likely short term goal. As a human, my dex then can max at 16 from my base 10 pretty easily. For no great reason, I do believe that there will be something very tasty for most classes that stay mostly pure..........and to experiance the end game feal of a ddo pali I will need to work towards 18/2 as a min for the most tasty morsals. No real reason for this belief, but because of loot and quest knowledge.........Im entertaining more flavor than current min/maxing for my underdevelopment characters. Like using scimitars on my 10/6 rogue/ranger halfling.....even though high dex rapiers would be more effiecent.

With this being said, for a high ac (non dwarf/non fighter), high intimidating, high damage reducer (? shield mastery 1 & 2 for 6 dr worth 2 feats?) Im a bit confused as to the perfect feat line up and how well things like high end smiting and enhancement chains are working for mostly pure paladins. I can trial and error this Im sure, but hoping to save some shards! As and example..........is taking the khopesh feat a good replacement feat for an intimidator and if so how is the holy sword treating you at end game? Anyone even bother with that spell once you have a green steal weapon?

I feel pretty good about the general build I have assembled, but if there is any helpfull advice as to what to expect..........build this character towards or away from during the level 6-16 range would be appreciated!

[Artierius]

Varr,

I have been looking at a new tank also for awhile now, and with the upcoming content coming out I am thinking the 32pt / Human / 10 Ftr - 6 Palli is the build that is going to be the next breed of tank.

This build will be going to 12 Ftr / 8 Palli at end game....in this you will be able to get 2 prestige enhancements, have enough feats for defenses, and still get wpn focuses and specializations and Khopesh for more damage output...not to mention up to 2nd level palli spells.

Feats would be something:

1st - Toughness
2nd - Wpn focus: slash
4th - Wpn Spec: slash
6th - Improved Crit: Slash
8th - Gtr. wpn focus
10th - PA
(12th - Gtr. wpn spec: slash)

1st - Least mark
3rd - Skill focus - Intim
6th - Dodge
9th - CE
12th - Shield Mastery
15th - Impr. Shield Mastery
(18th - Maybe skill focus: UMD)

Human - Khopesh

Your enhancements would go towards:

Armor Mastery III
Towershield Mastery II
Ftr Toughness III
Ftr Str II (after you get a +3 str tome - frees up 10 EP for other enhancements / otherwise a +2 tome requires human stat II(str - 4 EP) and a + 1 tome will need ftr str III and human stat II (total 10 EP) to hit 32 str)
Human Stat(Cha) I
Palli Cha I
Palli saves II
Palli Armor II
Palli Divine Rigtousness (x2 hate generator - must)
LoH I
Human Intimidate III
Ftr Intimidate III
Human Vers. II
Exalted Smite I
Extra smite II
Ftr Haste I
Ftr Crit Acc. I
Palli Divine Sacrifice I

This will leave you with 12 points to put toward the Prestige classes and anything else..or just pick what you need.

I was 2 off from max str on the build to free up more enhancement points..so he ended with a 32 str.

I was relying on a +2 Int tome before I could get CE on the build as I started with a 11 Int. More skillpoints would be nice, however I didnt want to have to have a +2 wisdom tome also..but if you do got one start with a 12 Int and 10 Wis. A 12 wisdom is all need to cast those 2nd level Palli spells and not have to wear a Wisdom item.

Stats:

Str - 16
Int - 11
Wis - 11
Dex - 14
Con - 14
Cha - 12



This is all I had written down, maybe it helps you somewhat.

[Alcides]

Stick with 1 fighter/15 Paladin for now, and see what kind of enhancements they put in the game for 17-20. If there's something on the paladin side you want, you should be able to get it(excluding level 20 enhancements of course). If nothing is good, then just go for more fighter feats say 4 Fighter/16 paladin for the final build.

[SteeleTrueheart]

It's not just Paladin stuff, but the Divine Light Cleric and Paladin enhancements have been improved, and Divine Might I - IV (at Cleric/Paladin levels 5/10/15/20) are added.

The other way around. It was considered too weak to be worthy of a feat expenditure, but is okay as an enhancement line, where one can choose how far they want to go with it.

Currently it's implemented as "Expend a turn attempt, gain a +2/+4/+6/+8 Sacred bonus to damage for one minute. Requires 14/16/18/20 (base + inherent) Charisma." It's possible that we'll change the duration to scale by Cleric/Paladin level, or alter some of the other specifics during testing.

If you want a pure paladin then I would consider the fact that the Reaver Towershield grants the Towershield feat. It also has a max dex bonus of +3 to compliment well with Mithral Fullplate.

Why are you specialising in Intimidate? Your AC is going to be low as a human with minimal fighter levels. (No dwarf or fighter armor mastery)

If you are not going to be pure then I would suggest 2 levels of rogue in there as evasion just rocks.

My current build is aiming for 15 pali / 3 rogue / 2 fighter (still only 11 pali / 2 fighter / 2 rogue atm)

Note Fighter 2 gives access to Str 1 enhancement and Rogue 2 gives evasion and access to Dex 1 enhancement wich complement well with the Human stat enahncements.

If you have the tomes I suggest you drop Int and Dex 1 point and raise charisma to 15
this will enable you to get 16 with a +1 tome and access to the +4 damage bonus enhancement (or even to the +6 with a +3 tome). This will cost you 4 skill points at first level but you will take a +1 Int tome at level 1.

So starting stats for your build:
Str: 16 (all level ups)
Dex: 9 (use a +1 tome) = 10
Con: 15 (use a +1 tome) = 16
Int: 13 (use a +1 tome) = 14
Wis: 8
Cha: 15 (use a +1 tome) = 16

(pray for a +3 WIS tome from the reaver to stop that annoying ..."are you sure you want to train as a paladin cos you got **** wisdom buddy"... message that you get when leveling up in paladin.)

I know it uses a lot of tomes but if you have access to them you may as well use them. Also a +1 tome use is boosted by a +3 tome use. (and hopefully eventually boosted by a +5 tome)

[Bronko]

I think you need to reconsider the starting Wisdom of 8.

Although you will certainly be able to reach a Wisdom of 14 which is the minimum needed to cast level 4 spells, what are you going to do if they raise the spell levels for Paladins in the future? This will also require you to wear a static +6 Wisdom item which is fine if you want to be a casting Paladin but not so good if you want to focus more on the tanking side. Fitting all the stat gear on a Paladin is hard enough and I'm speaking from experience.

If you are trying to figure out where to take the stat points from for the extra Wisdom try your Int. Go 10 Wis and 12 Int or something like that. You didn't really mention anything about your skill point allocation so I don't know if the extra Int is important to your build or not. If you have the resources eating some other tomes will obviously help.

Other than that it is definitely a viable build. Happy hunting and let us know how it works out for you.

[SteeleTrueheart]

Although you will certainly be able to reach a Wisdom of 14 which is the minimum needed to cast level 4 spells, what are you going to do if they raise the spell levels for Paladins in the future?

Bronko's points are quite valid. Will saves are not the best for paladins or fighters. More importantly sp are at a premium at lower levels

Paladins though will only ever get up to level 4 spells, unless they somehow implement some sort of epic spellcasting for paladins.... and if they do, by that time (2010+) you could safely assume you will probably need to re-roll for many other reasons as well.

While I don't like it, it is certainly playable to start with an 8 in WIS. You just have to wear decent wis items and power/wizardry items until your able to craft your +/- item in the shroud which will then give you a +6 wis item with shroud abilities

[Vizzini]

Would be really hard for me to decide to take anything less than 14 pally. I'd be missing out on one of my favorite spells.

Holy Sword (Cough Cough Kopesh Cough Cough)

[Varr]

From my origional post: Spell casting will fix itself once a +6 wis item is equipt to get to a 14/16. Int is pretty high, taking maxed intimidate, umd, spot, and balance. Spot is a luxury pick to say the least....as to my skill point allocation.

Now we are getting somewhere! These are some terrific posts.......very helpfull guys! Let me see what really caught my eye here...........

1. If you want a pure paladin then I would consider the fact that the Reaver Towershield grants the Towershield feat. It also has a max dex bonus of +3 to compliment well with Mithral Fullplate.

(This is a great point...one I really waffled back and forth on. If not for the intimidate, I would likely have been pure and either focused on this shield or taken the feat at some point. I am thinking that there are better tower shields for my character though.......also there is going to be a new wave of super armors and shields to leap frog the shroud super weapons of today (just my guess.))

2. Why are you specialising in Intimidate? Your AC is going to be low as a human with minimal fighter levels. (No dwarf or fighter armor mastery)

(Here I could use some help..........if I was a Dwarven fighter with a starting dex of 16 and a ton of enhancments invested I could get 3 more ac points than I will be getting as a dex dex human pali. I jsut dont know if a 61 is that much worse than a 64 on an intimitank or 59 as compaired to a 62 or what ever the numbers come out to be. I have no past experiance for this. It looks to be a balance between +1 feat, +1 skill pt per level, alot of enhancment flexabliity for pali specialty stuff instead of armor and tower shield masteries for 3 more ac. Im hoping that the 3 ac doenst sink my ship, but dont have a clue here. I do plan on being geared to the hilt like any good addict would be.)

3. Bronko's points are quite valid. Will saves are not the best for paladins or fighters. More importantly sp are at a premium at lower levels

(8 + 2 tome + 6 item for a 16 is a comfortable level 14 or so wisdom.......but am nervous about the will save heading up there. Also cant see taking force of personality as a feat.......should end up with about a 14/16 wis and a 22/24 cha....+4 to will save for the feat hopefully will not be necessary.)

4. If you have the tomes I suggest you drop Int and Dex 1 point and raise charisma to 15
this will enable you to get 16 with a +1 tome and access to the +4 damage bonus enhancement (or even to the +6 with a +3 tome). This will cost you 4 skill points at first level but you will take a +1 Int tome at level 1.

(This is excellent advice.........I should have done this at creation..........in itself I think I will just gobble the more expensive +2 tomes for the same net result being easier than rerolling and remailing tweeked stuff from the level 4 in play.......unless something else comes up to insist on reroll........like the -3ac will never fly and a human intimidator is worthless type of critical error.)