Loot Rant

[Alavatar]

25k XP is about a level and ahalf, but it also provides basically the best return to a caster for the one time investment. Remember, ANY time a caster crafts, and with many spells they end up using up xp. Which, also means they tend to level slower then their party members. But, considering that XP is basically limitless in DDO, i dont think you would find a single person unwilling to take 250,000 XP debt for a +5 bonus to one ability.

Which is why I doubt the Devs would code Wish into DDO as it exists in PnP.

Also, don't Forget in PnP there are about 1000 different ways to make revoltingly high ability scores, that all fall well within the rules.

That depends on if you are using non-core non-WotC supplements.

Saying whether a DM would allow such a thing or not is fully beyond what the rules layout. Black and white, its possible.

So please, can we get back onto the original topic instead of you spouting off incorrect facts and opinions about PnP.

I never said anything that was incorrect or opinion. You stated a dozen Wish scrolls. 12 Wish spells would require at least 60k XP in PnP which would bring a L20 wizard with 190k XP to 130k XP; effectively L16, 6k XP from L17. Except, you stated the Wizard would do that once they hit L17 which means that your DM was fudging some rules by allowing it to happen (i.e. even if you were 1 XP from L18 you would only be able to cast 3 Wish spells before loosing the ability to cast Wish).

As for the OP: I disagree. Complete list of Named Loot on every iteration of 20 completions, sure. But not a complete list of +3 tomes. They are just random items and should be treated as such.

[Riddikulus]

25k XP is about a level and ahalf, but it also provides basically the best return to a caster for the one time investment. Remember, ANY time a caster crafts, and with many spells they end up using up xp. Which, also means they tend to level slower then their party members. But, considering that XP is basically limitless in DDO, i dont think you would find a single person unwilling to take 250,000 XP debt for a +5 bonus to one ability.

Which is why I doubt the Devs would code Wish into DDO as it exists in PnP.

Easy solution... casting Wish reduces your XP cap by an appropriate amount. Wish "abuse" problem solved.

[manfredshw]

we need full list loot granted after 20 40 60 80 100 done.
This is simple!

And this is ddo, and wow-lite.
I spent times on it, and I need my work payback.
DEV had adjusted the drop rate for those items which are mostly needed.
Like titan belt, titan glove, esp. the ring.
If we don't have the full list, you can hardly see them from the list. Because they have slim drop rate, but the other trash loots, i.e. necklace will easily be seen in your list. Check it out, I am saying the truth. They are not the same drop rate.

DEV always change the drop rate of every single named item in this game, end reward generate system for each module pubblished. and some chests are very easy to ransack. (ie: icy remeint chest)Due to lack of end-game content, and slow development. So they want us to grind, to spend the times on these popular items. And to argue the topics like op's. Then nobody will pay attentions on the slow development, and where is the weekly developpment thread?

Have you guys haven't find out yet?

Is this game so interesting as it is before? I double.
I don't get it why let raid item become easier to loot? named item too. There is +3 tome exist, so what will happen if everybody have +3tome on every single stat?

As for me, I like the old days. Items were easy to obtain, so I can roll and reroll, build and rebuild for every character I want to be.
As for today, I won't. Hard to find group when you lv8ish. And of course I need some items to make my toons become more powerful and better to fit in the group. But, very hard to obtain. If I start to roll a new build, what waiting for me ahead. Obviously, another grind ahead.

For turbine, they want us to grind, to spend mothly fee for the grind. So they decreasing everything. As for me, I am fed up with it.
what I am doing now, is to grind only once. Let my new rangers fully equiped. And for this, I have enough patient to grind whatever 20 40 60 80, or even 20000. Then I will stop grinding, no other new build, thank you turbine.

[Thrudh]

If you're following the D&D rules, you'd allow it to happen, because that's explicitly what the Wish spell rules say it does. That use of Wish is not subject to twisted interpretations. Furthermore, the costs of getting Wish cast for you are also listed in the rules.

LOL... Man, your DM was a dummy or no fun or both....

Your DM never twisted a wish??? That's the ONLY way to keep that power under control....

Once, we had been in a huge fight with fire giants and a small red dragon... the bad guys were all dead and pretty much the whole party was dead as well (Maybe two people were still alive). One of the guys pulled out his wish ring (only 1 wish... we'd been carrying it around for a while), and he said... "I wish everyone was alive and at full health again"...

We all shouted in despair, because we knew our DM...

The DM told us he briefly considered bringing back every living sentient creature that had ever lived... but decided that the wish ring wasn't powerful enough for that... Instead he brought the whole party back to life at full health...

.......

.......

.......

AND all the fire giants and the red dragon we just killed.

[KoboldKiller]

Are we still beating on this dead horse?

Why is it people feel anything in this game is deserved?

You play, you loot, you hope for a good pull and you have fun. Isn't that why we continue to play?

I still open every chest and every end reward list with great anticipation.

So what if you have ran a raid 100+ times and haven't gotten the precious tome you want, IT WILL NOT MAKE OR BREAK YOUR ALT, and if your planing builds around getting a +3 tome for a certain stat then you seriously need to re-think what your doing.

I will be running my 20th Reaver tomorrow. Now do I hope I get the +3 tome for a specific stat of course, am I going to complain if I don't get it, nope.

And don't start in with the "it's only your 20th try running it your 100th time" rhetoric because it doesn't matter. My alt will be fine with or without it and I have no intention of running a raid that many times in order to try and get a tome. When it is no longer fun for me then I will stop running it and who knows maybe I'll still like it 100 times who's to say?

But I will not now or in the future complain that I "deserve" a choice of what I want just because I have run it x amount of times.

Nothing is guaranteed whether it's a game or life itself, enjoy what you have while you have it and once it's gone move on and find something else to enjoy.




We return you to your regularly scheduled program "Beating a Dead Horse".

[Aldor]

Be sure to post back after 100 runs without a +3 tome

Could not resist the offer

Are we still beating on this dead horse?

Why is it people feel anything in this game is deserved?

You play, you loot, you hope for a good pull and you have fun. Isn't that why we continue to play?

I still open every chest and every end reward list with great anticipation.

So what if you have ran a raid 100+ times and haven't gotten the precious tome you want, IT WILL NOT MAKE OR BREAK YOUR ALT, and if your planing builds around getting a +3 tome for a certain stat then you seriously need to re-think what your doing.

I will be running my 20th Reaver tomorrow. Now do I hope I get the +3 tome for a specific stat of course, am I going to complain if I don't get it, nope.

And don't start in with the "it's only your 20th try running it your 100th time" rhetoric because it doesn't matter. My alt will be fine with or without it and I have no intention of running a raid that many times in order to try and get a tome. When it is no longer fun for me then I will stop running it and who knows maybe I'll still like it 100 times who's to say?

But I will not now or in the future complain that I "deserve" a choice of what I want just because I have run it x amount of times.

Nothing is guaranteed whether it's a game or life itself, enjoy what you have while you have it and once it's gone move on and find something else to enjoy.




We return you to your regularly scheduled program "Beating a Dead Horse".

[BlackSteel]

+3 tome or not, I cant bring myself to farm Reaver every 3 days, the quest is just too boring now

that quest has turned into a tome lottery, and I can only bring myself to do it while eating and need something with minimal effort besides browsing AH (which can actually be more intensive than reaver)

exception being new characters that are still looking for their first madstone, head, or napkin depending on build

[Soul-Shaker]

I just finished a 20th titan today and guess what reward list I get. No gloves, ring, robe, boots OR BELT. Next best item is a +2 int tome, though I have eaten one already.... Thats my luck neway with any looting.

I dont like the idea of a complete list and I dont like the idea of a complete list on a specific number of runs because they wont make it retroactive, which means those that have past it wont get the benefit. Instead I would like say garantee 1 tome of highest Level and maybe 2 more items added to the list every 20th run. So lets say one mission 20th list is 11, so 40th is 13, 60th 15, and on till list comes full. And I would like to see a Minimum Raid loot drop per run re-instated. I hate running titan 9-12 man where no matter what difficultly, the average raid loot is closer to .25 pieces of raid loot per run. Maybe I should put in a ticket though since most people that I know pull great when its not with me in group.

[Lehrman]

I just finished a 20th titan today and guess what reward list I get. No gloves, ring, robe, boots OR BELT. Next best item is a +2 int tome, though I have eaten one already.... Thats my luck neway with any looting.

I dont like the idea of a complete list and I dont like the idea of a complete list on a specific number of runs because they wont make it retroactive, which means those that have past it wont get the benefit. Instead I would like say garantee 1 tome of highest Level and maybe 2 more items added to the list every 20th run. So lets say one mission 20th list is 11, so 40th is 13, 60th 15, and on till list comes full. And I would like to see a Minimum Raid loot drop per run re-instated. I hate running titan 9-12 man where no matter what difficultly, the average raid loot is closer to .25 pieces of raid loot per run. Maybe I should put in a ticket though since most people that I know pull great when its not with me in group.

I pulled my chattering when u were there...granted we did it 16 times before that happened...

For 20th runs, I started setting my loot table to class specific and since then my 20ths have had a tome each time, but thats only 2/2 and not from reaver since I dont run reaver any more. Its too fricking repetative. The sad thing is that I still need some reaver gear on my bard, but I hate the quest too much to enter. Anyway, test out the loot based on class next time you hit a 20. If it works, then great, if not, then maybe u will at least remove some of the unwanted arcane, melee, or cleric junk from the list.

[seldarin]

If you're following the D&D rules, you'd allow it to happen, because that's explicitly what the Wish spell rules say it does. That use of Wish is not subject to twisted interpretations. Furthermore, the costs of getting Wish cast for you are also listed in the rules.

Angelus, IF i was following the D and D rules, which by the way are guidelines to be interpreted to fit your adventure, and i use them as such, then as a GM i have the absolute power to interpret the way a person words their wish spell. AND furthermore in the event that they are doing it for PERSONAL greed, then things become a bit more interesting. There is more to it than a simple flip of the wrist and stuff just appears. The wish spell is arguably one of, if not the most powerful spell in PnP and a poorly worded wish spell can have dire consequences. I know the cost is listed in the rules, if you read up you would see that i stated i have played PnP for a number of years so i think i would have a fair idea of what is in the rules, but thank you for pointing that out to me.

I would openly question the type of GM that you have had that would just allow wish spells to be cast all over the shop, let alone in the volume that the OP states would be needed to get the abilities where you want them. As a GM, i for one wouldnt allow it, UNLESS the player concerned kept the wording VERY tight and had a VERY, VERY good reason for it.

Factor in the xp cost involved as stated in another post and sorry mate, i dont know what planet you are on/from, but it just plain wouldnt happen as easily as the OP reckons it would. No doubt you will dispute that, thats your call, but i would suggest that you read the rules that you have quoted to me and do the math yourself.

Unlike your good self i use rules as guidelines and just because a 20 is supposedly always a pass and a 1 is always supposedly a fail, its not always the case, no doubt it is in your games and i feel sorry for you having GMs like that, or i feel sorry for your group if you were GMing it!

[Dexxaan]

LOL... Man, your DM was a dummy or no fun or both....

Your DM never twisted a wish??? That's the ONLY way to keep that power under control....

Once, we had been in a huge fight with fire giants and a small red dragon... the bad guys were all dead and pretty much the whole party was dead as well (Maybe two people were still alive). One of the guys pulled out his wish ring (only 1 wish... we'd been carrying it around for a while), and he said... "I wish everyone was alive and at full health again"...

We all shouted in despair, because we knew our DM...

The DM told us he briefly considered bringing back every living sentient creature that had ever lived... but decided that the wish ring wasn't powerful enough for that... Instead he brought the whole party back to life at full health...

.......

.......

.......

AND all the fire giants and the red dragon we just killed.

LMAO. Nice.

The word "RETREAT" comes to mind as soon as the wish was granted.

[nbhs275]

LOL... Man, your DM was a dummy or no fun or both....

Your DM never twisted a wish??? That's the ONLY way to keep that power under control....

Once, we had been in a huge fight with fire giants and a small red dragon... the bad guys were all dead and pretty much the whole party was dead as well (Maybe two people were still alive). One of the guys pulled out his wish ring (only 1 wish... we'd been carrying it around for a while), and he said... "I wish everyone was alive and at full health again"...

We all shouted in despair, because we knew our DM...

The DM told us he briefly considered bringing back every living sentient creature that had ever lived... but decided that the wish ring wasn't powerful enough for that... Instead he brought the whole party back to life at full health...

.......

.......

.......

AND all the fire giants and the red dragon we just killed.

Thats not twisting it, its just using the literal interpretation. Twisted commands usually happen with say..a djinni or efreet. I know when my lvl6 character found an efreeti bottle and managed to get him to cast me wishes, he was pretty ****ed. But when i asked for a powerful magical staff i got one...though it came with its owner..

[Thrudh]

But when i asked for a powerful magical staff i got one...though it came with its owner..

See, that's awesome... that's how you grant a wish...

I never played any high level campigns... wishes were very rare for us... Once though, we all got a wish with a genie.. The DM twisted each and every wish.. The last guy spent like 20 minutes coming up with a long involved wish trying to keep the DM from being able to twist it... he failed.

But it was fun!

"I wish for a turkey sandwich on rye bread with lettuce and mustard. And -- and I don't want any zombie turkeys, I don't want to turn into a turkey myself, and I don't want any other weird surprises -- you got it?" - Homer Simpson

[Hafeal]

If you're following the D&D rules, you'd allow it to happen, because that's explicitly what the Wish spell rules say it does. That use of Wish is not subject to twisted interpretations. Furthermore, the costs of getting Wish cast for you are also listed in the rules.

Careful what you wish for ... you might get it! There is not a DM I am aware of that won't interpret your wish much differently than you expect ... as several of the stories showed.

Thrudh's story was great!

LOL... Man, your DM was a dummy or no fun or both....

Your DM never twisted a wish??? That's the ONLY way to keep that power under control....

Once, we had been in a huge fight with fire giants and a small red dragon... the bad guys were all dead and pretty much the whole party was dead as well (Maybe two people were still alive). One of the guys pulled out his wish ring (only 1 wish... we'd been carrying it around for a while), and he said... "I wish everyone was alive and at full health again"...

We all shouted in despair, because we knew our DM...

The DM told us he briefly considered bringing back every living sentient creature that had ever lived... but decided that the wish ring wasn't powerful enough for that... Instead he brought the whole party back to life at full health...

.......

.......

.......

AND all the fire giants and the red dragon we just killed.

[Torilin]

I agree it's frustrating. But the problem is that if we KNEW we'd get a complete loot list we'd just keep grinding until every capped character on the server had +3 in every stat, further widening gap between the regular and casual gamers, making it even harder to balance content.

So, while I understand your frustrations:

/not signed

Ha funny I believe doing a raid 240 times is grinding what the OP is talking about is the fact that he has to keep doing the same old boring content over and over again only to be saddened and not rewarded when he has acomplished something like 240 reaver raids.

[Shagn]

"I wish for a turkey sandwich on rye bread with lettuce and mustard. And -- and I don't want any zombie turkeys, I don't want to turn into a turkey myself, and I don't want any other weird surprises -- you got it?" - Homer Simpson

best Homer Simpson quote. ever.

[QuantumFX]

I agree it's frustrating. But the problem is that if we KNEW we'd get a complete loot list we'd just keep grinding until every capped character on the server had +3 in every stat, further widening gap between the regular and casual gamers, making it even harder to balance content.

So, while I understand your frustrations:

/not signed

You realize that there are 4 completable, non reflag required, quests that can drop +3 tomes right? This would mean even the most casual player would be assured 4 +3 tomes between modules if this were implemented.

[Dexxaan]

Ha funny I believe doing a raid 240 times is grinding what the OP is talking about is the fact that he has to keep doing the same old boring content over and over again only to be saddened and not rewarded when he has acomplished something like 240 reaver raids.

Seabiscuit is taking a beating!!!

Torilin I see it like this..... Not a single DDO player has a Right to a +3 Tome, (or W/P Rapier for that matter )....plain and simple...

Therefore it makes no sense to expect getting one when it´s an actual random loot drop....whereas the named loot drops as a DIRECT result of that Quest/Raid environment....(You´ll never get Madstone Boots out of the Titan...right?)

I´d suggest the complete list be available at the 20/40/60 if that´s gonna make the "**** luck non Guild assisted" players stop whining.

And regarding the Grind....spare me...Reaver is nothing more than a 3 man Loot Run, that requires 12 to have a decent chance of anything dropping.....not a grind when you have to a) heal a Tank, or b) Tank Giant or c) Cast DiscoBalls and an occasional FOD. oh and all this takes 12-15 Min....

[Thrudh]

You realize that there are 4 completable, non reflag required, quests that can drop +3 tomes right? This would mean even the most casual player would be assured 4 +3 tomes between modules if this were implemented.

heh, you have a strange definition of the word casual...

I am a borderline power-gamer (5 capped characters, all have raid loot, Shroud items, etc. - I average at least 20 hours a week of playing... I've been playing since May 2006)

All five of my capped characters have done the Reaver 20 times, one has done it 40 times.
Three of my characters have completed the Shroud 20 times (one guy got 4 +3 tomes, one got 1 +3 tome, one got zero +3 tomes)

NONE of my characters have done any of the other raids 20 times...

I have 15 titan completions on one guy (hoping for the chattering ring at 20)
14 and 15 DQ completions on two guys.

All other raids have been done 1-3 times by each character.

[redoubt]

I run the reaver for one reason only. +3 tomes.

After 55+ runs I have the head, treason and the bracers. Nothing else in there is useful to my rogue ranger.

When I built this character two years ago I planned on the uber +5 item and a +2 favor tome for dex. Now it is possible to go two better than that. Why not push for 36 dex instead of 35.

If not for the massive nerf to AC that has happened lately I really wouldn't care. I can hit almost with missing if I stand still, so that is not an issue. But as a chaotic character I immediately fell 5-7 AC points behind everyone who made a monk. So every darn point of AC matters and that silly tome will get me 1 closer.

Run 58 (or so, I've lost track) is tonight...

P.S. I hold my own pretty well, but like many I strive to be better. It is just frustrating that the "best" way to do it is to grind the reaver. I don't even run it on any of my other characters because its not worth the effort just to rearrange my enhancements. The only reason I still try and "hope" on this one character is because it would hit a new even number. Also, since the +6 items have come out, a +3 con would get me a new even number (which would be nice, since two years ago you didn't need 300+ hp to be welcome in a group.)