2WF vs Sword and Board

[Goldeneye]

How does the damage of a 2WF compare to that of tradition sword and shield?
I'm trying to consider making a multiclass melee character - and don't know the pros and cons of shield vs. dual wielding??
thanks a lot!

[Memnir]

In broad strokes:

Duel Wielding = more DPS & lower AC.
Sword and Board = lower DPS & higher AC.

This is in general, and I know that your mileage will vary depending on your build. However speaking in generalities, thats the pros/cons of each choice.

[The_Phenx]

It is possible to do both in one toon, but usually requires staying pure class fighter for the ammount of feats you will need.

Edit: I should say that there are other ways... but to do max dps while doing it... can be tricky, I prefer pure fighter, there are ranger monk fighter pally hybrids that can be very effective as well. And there is the consderation to remember that there are fighter tactical feats coming out along with presitge classes soon... and we do not know what the level requirements etc will be for those yet.

[Borror0]

It is possible to do both in one toon, but usually requires staying pure class fighter for the ammount of feats you will need.

You rather mean it requires splashing monk, right?

[Blazer]

You rather mean it requires splashing monk, right?

For most people, yes. For The Phenx, no.

[The_Phenx]

You rather mean it requires splashing monk, right?

Nope. Not at all.. just takes careful gear selection, and a well thoguht out build. People get too wrapped up in the current fad.

Certainly splashing monk is an easy way to gain a couple of feats and a quick ac boost in robes, but its not the only way to slice a tomato. The ghinsuu knife usually works pretty well, even after cutting through cans.

[The_Phenx]

Oh and to answer the OP... taking away 1 sword and adding a shield... well the dps is cut in half ...

[Aesop]

In broad strokes:

Duel Wielding = more DPS & Higher AC.
Sword and Board = lower DPS & Lower AC.

This is in general, and I know that your mileage will vary depending on your build. However speaking in generalities, thats the pros/cons of each choice.

this is a bit more accurate currently... though hopefully they will think of something to make S&B a little more attractive and useful

Aesop

[Borror0]

Oh and to answer the OP... taking away 1 sword and adding a shield... well the dps is cut in half ...

I'd say more than half. No PA, no max Str, etc.

[unionyes]

Considering damage and twf vs. sword and board.....

You take a lot more damage when you are twf. You take a lot less damage when you have a shield. I know that most people consider only the damage that you are doing, not the damage that you are taking (with the exception of the cleric), however......

I find I do a lot more total damage with my fighters when I am sword and board, since I can stand there and pound away without needing the cleric to spam heals on me. I do quicker damage when I twf, but I don't get to stand there for too long and whack away before I get squashed.

[Blazer]

I'd say more than half. No PA, no max Str, etc.

Not necessarily. The OP said nothing about going to a full out defensive build by going sword n board. He can still carry a shield, have max STR and have PA running.

[The_Phenx]

ok ok ... so then realy its 8 swings vs 5 is the attack bonus progression the same on both?

[Cold_Stele]

OP - as you'll gather, right now the hype is all Ranger 15/Monk 1 (and I've rolled one myself). Lots of fun, lots of DPS and very survivable, but very dependant upon expensive gear. Another downside is that the few things that your high AC and Evasion can't save you from (like light-based damage) *really* hurt.

Halfling Rog x/Rgr x/Mnk 1-2 is also popular and has a lot of DPS potential. Imagine another mod like mod 5 though, where barely a single mob took sneak attack damage (and we do have an undead dragon one coming) and you're going to get a lot of gloomy looking hobbitses.

Ftrs are pretty much second rate citizens right now (but are always going to be number one favourite for me and a lot of people, especially on this forum). We're on the cusp of some new enhancements though, some coming in a month or so and the rest in about four months. No one knows exactly what they're going to be so it's hard to give advice, except to say it's best to play it safe.

Make sure you can get Int of 13 (including tomes). Combat Expertise will allow you to switch from offense to defense and is a prerequisite for Kensai which might be the best offensive enhancement we've yet seen in the game.

Or it might suck...

Get a base Dex of 17 (including tomes) so you can swap from S&B to TWF as needed.

Put the rest into Str and Con (16 minimum Str).

Go with Khopesh or Dwarven Axe but keep a feat free for IC-Pierce and try to get some nice cheap banishers, puncturers, etc. Power Attack is mandatory of course.

Not a lot more anyone can tell you right now really. Initially aim at pure Ftr (for the feats you'll need and any level requirements for the new enhancements) but build in some wiggle room in case things don't look good and you want to throw in Pally, Rgr or even Rog or Monk levels later (I'd say you'd be crazy not to go LG). Don't be afraid to hold off leveling past 14 or so for a couple of months til we hear more about what's happening.

If the new enhancements go your way your going to be laughing.

If not you'll be in the same boat as the rest of us Ftrs

[Borror0]

Not necessarily. The OP said nothing about going to a full out defensive build by going sword n board. He can still carry a shield, have max STR and have PA running.

You know my stance on such builds.

[sirgog]

If you build a TWF character well, you can do more damage than a Sword&Board fighter, have a better AC than said sword&boarder (through one level of Monk for the Wisdom bonus to AC, which doesn't stack with shields, and also using Shield clickies for tough fights), and you can have better damage mitigation from feats (Evasion).

Perhaps search the boards for the Iron Monk build if you want an idea as to how to build such a character - it's a good starting point. (Think it's in either the Ranger or Monk forums, can't remember which, but it's a Rgr12/Pal3/Mnk1 build with a lot going for it.

[The_Phenx]

NOOoOOoooo... Illuminati has enough clones running around...

[Mithran]

I went with a relatively high Dexterity on Fedaykin (base 17 and +2 Dexterity Tome, thinking 19 Dexterity would be required for Superior Two Weapon Fighting).

[Tanka]

NOOoOOoooo... Illuminati has enough clones running around...

For good reason. He puts together good builds.

Can they be expensive to make for newbies? Yes. But the build isn't a newbie build anyway.

[lord_of_rage]

personally I have a pair of twf barbarians. Soulrage my capped dwarf and Batttlerage my elf rapier wielding5barb1ftr. Soul is pierce speced uses picks and throws a ton of damage. Soul tends to lead or be near the top of the kills everytime. A ok 30 ac unbuffed im sure a chattering ring would help but not terribly worried about it. He has 512 hp with gear unraged and 656 quad raged. He tends to stay around 624 tripleraged. I rarely find he gets beat out by tempest builds. Granted dual supreme tyrant picks tend to help. He does carry a ton of pots and has black scale armor to help heal himself when needed. Batttle is preforming well above expectations at current lvl and i cant wait to get his min2s and bloodstone on him. I prefer twf as all my melees are built that way. Even my bards. IMHO it all depends on what you want out of the build.

[WeiQuinn]

*snip*
Ftrs are pretty much second rate citizens right now (but are always going to be number one favourite for me and a lot of people, especially on this forum). We're on the cusp of some new enhancements though, some coming in a month or so and the rest in about four months. No one knows exactly what they're going to be so it's hard to give advice, except to say it's best to play it safe.

Make sure you can get Int of 13 (including tomes). Combat Expertise will allow you to switch from offense to defense and is a prerequisite for Kensai which might be the best offensive enhancement we've yet seen in the game.
*snip*

Can someone point me to the Kensai character in PnP? The only Kensai I can find is in my old Oriental Adventures book from 1st ed!

I hope to build a 32-point Human Ranger 14/Fighter 6 Tempest Kensai that uses Bastard Swords.