Request: Bow Strength as a feat

[Depravity]

Asking for this out of pure greed.

PnP thinking: "Bow Strength" doesn't exist, it's a property of the "mighty composite" bows that allows strength bonus to ranged attacks. In other words, not limited to a specific class.

DDO thinking: Rangers are mostly a stack of predetermined bonus feats and a small unique spell list. Diehard is available as a seperate feat. Very little they get is not available elsewhere, so why should bow strength be a uniqueness?

Pure greed: Want to build a pure fighter, deeply range specced (elf, +4 to hit, +6 damage with any bow, at any time), to play with the (sorta leaked) Kensai PrE.

Alternately, coding in the mighty composite ability, much like a special material (doesn't add to enhancement +, as it's a physical property and not a magical one), would work, just not as nicely for non rangers (capped at +5 Str bonus to damage).

[HumanJHawkins]

It'll never happen... All the people who built ranged fighters and then rerolled them as rangers because bow strength is so important, would freak.

Plus, it's a core part of the game balance. It would be like making Evasion an available feat. Suddenly Rogues and Tempest melee rangers would be relatively useless compared to a Barbarian 16 with evasion.

It would take all kinds of rebalancing to fix that, so will never happen.

[Gennerik]

Except for the fact that any class should be able to just get a Composite Long-/Short-bow and be able to add their Strength modifier (up to +5), I can't see how it it would critically throw off the balance of the game, especially as a feat.

Also, while not in DDO, there is a Ring of Evasion that allows its wearer to have Evasion. It' only costs 25000gp, too, so it's really not that much compared to an ability that only a select few classes get.

[Aesop]

I think I'd just make it part of an exisisting Feat like Point Blank Shot and leave rangers with the Bow Strength ability thus never needing to take Point Blank Shot


it would do what ya needed anyway

Aesop

[Yabba]

While you're at it, lets have Lay on Hands as a feat too.

[Aesop]

While you're at it, lets have Lay on Hands as a feat too.

little different


one is a non PnP ability given at the beginning of the DDO cycle to help give Rangers an advantage when they were seen a s a weak link

the other is a Core ability of a class...


so to reiterate

1 a feature that should never have been inherant to a class

2 a feature that is inherant to a class


Aesop

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Except for the fact that any class should be able to just get a Composite Long-/Short-bow and be able to add their Strength modifier (up to +5), I can't see how it it would critically throw off the balance of the game, especially as a feat..

I think the compromise is allowing Composite bows with their associated STR bonus into the game. It means rangers get the bonus on every bow, but STR based non rangers still have options with a subset of bows. A win win.

[Borror0]

I think the compromise is allowing Composite bows with their associated STR bonus into the game. It means rangers get the bonus on every bow, but STR based non rangers still have options with a subset of bows. A win win.

Ok, personally, I agree with adding the Bow Strength-like component to Composite Bows... or at least make of it a property on bows. Would it help rangers and those with Bow Strength as a feat (admitting the OP's suggestion would be chosen)? Obviously not, but for a 30+ Str fighter or a 44+ Str barbarian, that's hell of a good enchantment. Adds some more bonus to ranged combat.

And, I doubt that's overpowering in anyway.

I think making it an enchantment is better than adding to it on composite bows, btw.

[eonfreon]

Very interesting arguments on both sides. Personally, I don't think I would have any major problems for Bow Strength Feat. Although, I would prefer the Composite Bow idea with strength bonus equal to the plus of the the item.
I do think that Ranger's Bow Strength should be somewhat unique to Rangers, or at least more powerful.
And all those that argue that LOH and other abilities are supernatural and Bow Strength is not have one major flaw.
Who's to say that a Ranger's Bow Strength is not supernatural? Sure other classes are proficient in bows but a Ranger is Supernaturally proficient.
The power of Nature itself courses through a Ranger and manifests through his bow, perhaps? Later he is one with Nature enough to cast spells.
Without a reason being explicitly stated, it is completely open to interpretation.
No reason is given in DDO for bow strength, it just is, unlike PnP that likes to explain in far greater length.
Definently not against Strength Modifiers being applicable to Composite Bows and such (and as a minor version of Bow Strength), but the more I think about it I'm against Bow Strength as a Feat.
Anyone can tell me it's not a Supernatural Feat, but I choose to believe it is, makes much more sense to me in a Fantasy World. Paladins get their supernatural abilities from their deities, Ranger's get their supernatural abilities from Nature.
Pretty simple really. Unless told otherwise by the DEVS, this is what I choose to believe.

[Kaboth]

Asking for this out of pure greed.

PnP thinking: "Bow Strength" doesn't exist, it's a property of the "mighty composite" bows that allows strength bonus to ranged attacks. In other words, not limited to a specific class.

DDO thinking: Rangers are mostly a stack of predetermined bonus feats and a small unique spell list. Diehard is available as a seperate feat. Very little they get is not available elsewhere, so why should bow strength be a uniqueness?

Pure greed: Want to build a pure fighter, deeply range specced (elf, +4 to hit, +6 damage with any bow, at any time), to play with the (sorta leaked) Kensai PrE.

Alternately, coding in the mighty composite ability, much like a special material (doesn't add to enhancement +, as it's a physical property and not a magical one), would work, just not as nicely for non rangers (capped at +5 Str bonus to damage).

Its Easy... splash two levels of Ranger and you get Bow str with losing very little to being a fighter... I have an Elven Archer... He is currently 11 Fighter/ 2 Ranger/ 2 Rogue and he does very good ranged wise, in fact over all I think his DPS ranged is equivelant if not better than a rangers ranged combat. I took two levels of Rogue to open locks and to recieve Evasion. How ever he doesnt have the ranger cool spells and such, but he does have lots other perks. If you wondering how my archer does great damage even against a rangers favored enemy, it is because fighters have the weapon specialization line which increases damage and with the fighter enhancer of bonus to crit and seeker bonuses, etc. When my archer rolls a twenty he almost always crits, with exception to fortification or being immune to crits. If I recall, his total bonus to confirm crits was sitting at like a +60. If you like, send me a PM on here and when I get back to my archer and power and DSL steady I can mention some things to you. Archers have lots of bias against them unless you are doing DQ or some other quest were they come in handy. Granted in a group melee DPS is better for the most part unless you are multi-shoting...

[Borror0]

If Turbine then nerfed it to uselessness without giving me some way to undo my choice of a monk level, I will be really ****ed.

Really? Poor you.

Let's put it this way: either Turbine just nerfed every S&B character in the whole game into uselessness and will have to face other serious consequences (and imbalance the whole in some highly undesirable ways) related to implementing monk AC bonus as it was implemented, or they correct their mistake by nerfing monk AC bonus.

Also, I don't think it is overpowered. There are plenty of things balancing out the AC.
1) You have to put points into Wisdom.
2) You have to wear a Wisdom item. This takes space that could be used for something else.

So, you don't have trouble with super high DPS characters with crazy AC?

And moreso, you have to max out DEX to make it really useful, resulting in a really big STR and CON hit.

I made a 16 Str, 16 Con, 14 Dex Ranger with 70 AC against their favored enemy (67 if not).

Say what?

On top of that, you have to give up protection or resist, etc. to put on the Wis item.

On a ranger?

In any event, buffing quests and monsters is a far better way to correct this than nerfing something.

This is, by far, that silliest comment I heard on the issue so far.

• It's inflating the number that got there in the first place.
• It won't solve the S&B case.
• It won't make those build any more balanced.
• (Feel free to add anymore to the list if I forgot anything.)

And no, don't tell me you have to buff everyone. That's not a good idea.

Nerfing is a good idea in many cases. Stop being afraid of it.