Intimidate as a Paladin Skill....Long Overdue

[Dexxaan]

Pretty straight forward concept.

It makes as much (or more) sense that a Holy Warrior can instill more fear than a Fighter or depending on Mob type, similar to a Barbarian.


I´m not saying make Mob Type another variable, but definitely that it should be a class skill with it´s own enhancement line, etc..

Eladrin? Turbine? Forumites....?

Note: My posts are Muffin-Free Zones....he´s got to have me /ignored by now.

[Ralmeth]

I agree. The main reason I multiclassed my Paladin into Fighter was so that I could get intimidate as a class skill, because in my opinion as a Paladin I want to be able to get the monsters to fight me instead of my squishy friends. What's more Paladin-like than self sacrifice to save someone else?

[Borror0]

At the risk of repeating myself again...

Let's look at tanking. Intimidate is not a class skill. That considerably hinders the paladin's ability to tank. Divine Righteouness would help if it wasn't for the fact that as a paladin who would be tanking, you probably won't be doing enough damage to take the aggro back; at least not at any speed that would be efficient. It does have good AC, but not damage reduction ability.

This is a big part of the issue I have about the whole "paladins are a defensive support class" that Eladrin said a while ago.

I can accept part of that, but there are a lot of things that need to be correct. First of all, as you pointed out, paladin lacks synergy in what he tries to acheive. He tries to tank via taking the aggro by DPS... but got lowest DPS in the game. Then, he also lack Intimidate or any similar taunt.

As I often repeated, the best way to fix this, to my eyes, would be to change the way Diplomacy currently works. You could make of Diplomacy a skill with two options. The first option would be the current de-aggroing form, so that anyone with points in Diplomacy would be able to continue using it the way it works. The second option would be how Intimidate currently works. It would help both paladins and monks, who are class who can/should tank... but lack the ability to draw aggro.

Then, the second part of the change would be to give Intimidate a debuffing part to. If a mob fail his check (or another higher DC check), he gets shakened lowering his to-hit and saves. That would reward those who put points into Intimidate rather than Diplomacy... and also avoid making Diplomacy clearly superior to Intimidate.

Basicly, it would result in:

Intimidate:

• Allows you to intimidate certain NPCs and to draw the attention of monsters. You get a bonus when intimidating creatures smaller than you and a penalty when intimidating creatures that are larger than you. A successfuly Intimidated mob is shaken.

Diplomacy:

• Allows you to negotiate more effectively with certain NPCs and to encourage monsters to find targets other than yourself.
• Allows you to convince certain NPCs to attack you rather than your party members.

[artvan_delet]

/signed.

How likely is this without a respec?

[Borror0]

How likely is this without a respec?

Very unlikely. One reason more to add a skill respec.

[Tenkari_Rozahas]

so you want to make hte pallys not 3.5 ed anymore? cause as far as i know, even in PnP they didnt have intimidate as a class skill.

[Borror0]

so you want to make hte pallys not 3.5 ed anymore? cause as far as i know, even in PnP they didnt have intimidate as a class skill.

My suggestion follow 3.5 D&D...

[hydra_ex]

so you want to make hte pallys not 3.5 ed anymore? cause as far as i know, even in PnP they didnt have intimidate as a class skill.

Re-read what you said. Now, think about monks, rangers and casters and the little and big things they changed with those. Then check out some feat descritptions. After that, look closelt at intimidate. Now, re-think your post. DDO is not D&D 3.5. DDO is D&D 3.5turbine.

[DelScorcho]

Note: My posts are Muffin-Free Zones....he´s got to have me /ignored by now.

Ahhh, the tyranny of baked goods running loose and out of control. With respect to the original suggestion, /signed, as it would be one more benefit to the class that needs it.

[Raegoul]

Does the Paladin use turn undead to make things hate you more for 60secs thing work?

[Lufia]

Does the Paladin use turn undead to make things hate you more for 60secs thing work?

Divine righteousness effectively doubles the amount of aggro you get. slap this on for a 60 second effect for the use of turn undead, a could of exhalted smites that do crits 300+, and since aggro is doubled you get 600 points of damage hate out of it, and with the spamage of Divine Sacrifice, It can hold aggro pretty good *When needed* for example the main tank dies, and you need to snag aggro, turn Righteousness on and smack a few crits.

But in short, Yes it works quite nicely =)

[eonfreon]

/signed signed and signed
Intimidate as a class skill, or Borro's Diplomacy idea also sounds good.
Just finished a quest with a bow using Ranger and would have really liked to be able to use intimidate to pull the aggro off instead of chasing the darn MOB all over the place. Finally I just gave up and let him deal with his own aggro- which he did by dying (and dying and dying- you'd think he'd learn) so that I could get the aggro.
Of course a skill respec would be needed, because I never even put points into Diplomacy.
But even without a skill respec I'd be for this change. Worse comes to worse I'll reroll him.
So . . . . /SIGNED!

[QuantumFX]

Oh boy! Another dead horse to beat!!

Paladins should have a DDO variant of the the Duel ability from 4.0 edition. The ability to pull a single creature's aggro from a crowd would be awesome in this game.

[sephiroth1084]

/signed!

Number one reason I multiclassed my paladin was to grab intimidate--all that AC and great saves don't mean much if the monsters couldn't care less whether you were smacking them or not.

Divine Righteousness seems to work okay if I get to an enemy before anyone else, or after a few Exalted Smites and Divine Sacs., but those are in short supply vs. the hordes we face. It does, however, work very nicely with intimidate to grab, then HOLD aggro.

[Cold_Stele]

so you want to make hte pallys not 3.5 ed anymore? cause as far as i know, even in PnP they didnt have intimidate as a class skill.

In PnP the Intimidate skill is nothing like it's DDO counterpart.

That's justification enough to be /signed IMO.

[sirgog]

so you want to make hte pallys not 3.5 ed anymore? cause as far as i know, even in PnP they didnt have intimidate as a class skill.

Most P&P Paladins don't have enhancements either.

[Borror0]

Most P&P Paladins don't have enhancements either.

Just for it to be said, I have an issue giving paladins Intimidate. I have no problem, however, giving them a similar ability.

Oh, by the way, Diplomacy is also a monk skill so that would benefit to monks also, who are screaming for an aggro taunt as well.

[VirieSquichie]

Just for it to be said, I have an issue giving paladins Intimidate. I have no problem, however, giving them a similar ability.

Oh, by the way, Diplomacy is also a monk skill so that would benefit to monks also, who are screaming for an aggro taunt as well.

Make an enhancement that gives you Intimidate score equal to your Diplomacy score. Doesn't break 3.5 rules, gives paladins a way to intimidate, and uses up yet another of those precious enhancement points. I'm thinking cost = 2. Or make it a series of enhancements, with the higher ones adding a bonus.

For monks, it should definitely have the classic animation from the original Matrix, where Morpheus and Neo are sparring. That little hand-gesture ought to tick off any sentient creature it's done towards.

[Thrudh]

For monks, it should definitely have the classic animation from the original Matrix, where Morpheus and Neo are sparring. That little hand-gesture ought to tick off any sentient creature it's done towards.

LOL... Awesome!

[Borror0]

Make an enhancement that gives you Intimidate score equal to your Diplomacy score. Doesn't break 3.5 rules, gives paladins a way to intimidate, and uses up yet another of those precious enhancement points.

It's not a bad idea, but my main issue with it is that it would be classed based.